Too many questions

[GNCHolt]

Hi all, I'm interested in learning about the electrical parts of my ,new to me, 2014 pleaseureway. I simply have too many questions about batteries, charging, chemistry etc. to ask here.
Is there a place anyone can recommend I start to learn, with basics first? I need to know what I'm doing BEFORE I get the wrenches out. I can see a lot of information here, but it's not specific enough for me.
TIA

[booster]

That's a tough one to do and get good information at the same time, I think.


You should be able to find lots of You Tube videos on "RV charging systems explained" or some such title. often with a pic of a doofy looking guy to get your attention. The quality of the information always has to be questioned on most anything online so comparing different ones and than searching for further information probably would be needed to decide what is correct or incorrect, opinion or fact.


A lot of it all is extremely application specific and dependent on equipment used, battery types, use patterns, where you live, ect so there really aren't any "one size fits all" type solutions. You are starting with a specific van, so first you should list out all of the components you specific van has by function/brand/model number so you don't waste a lot effort on things that probably won't apply to you, at least at the beginning.


Many systems have been described on this forum, both stock and modified, plus many ground up builds or major upgrades, but the search function is not the best here so can be hard to find. Similar for components and quite f few deep dives into battery theories and best practices.


I generally find that using the b forum specific Google search works much better than the built in search. The forum actually gives a shortcut link to it in Help section section.


https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl...95:k1dvq8an7ly


Everyone here are always ready to help and answer questions or to direct you to past discussions of things you are asking about.


You are wise to want to get up to speed before going after the electrical stuff. Systems are getting more powerful and thus more able to cause harm than they used to be so careful is good.

[phantomjock]

You are asking about making upgrades and changes to the system.

I take it you have identified your travel plans?

1. Weekending at an RV Park?
2. Visiting friends and family and "Mooch-docking" using their shore power?
3. Overnight without shore power? Walmart/Cracker Barrel - etc.
4. Longer term off-grid?

Each of those seemingly "simple choices" carries a specific set of requirements:
Refrigeration, Microwave, Stove, coffee pot, Hot Pot, BBQ, Video, CPAP, Airconditioning, etc.
These components have use cycles that can be calculated with reasonable accuracy to create your CONSUMPTION (requirements).

Now, next, is when you get concerned about sizing, and modifing, and that is comparing your consumption with the Van's CAPACITY. Here you'll be making choices about the nature of power supply and chemistry - wet cell, AGM/Gell Cell/Lithium. Depth of Discharge and Battery bank size are the entry points to this step in my opinion. [Naturally BUDGET is a major factor as well! I could say COST, but that would be after the near final itteration of your journey through this. ]

Finally more electrical confusion to sort out; what and how will you CHARGE? Will you be using a generator, solar, underhood (Alternator), and the frequency of recharge based on your chosen capacity.

These are pretty straight forward steps along a process, but I find it useful to first understand the travel plans. Perhaps you have then you've made the first step. The 3 C's then need to be itterated, to get to a plan you can implement.

And, as booster has said - there are a lot of helpful members here and YouTube has some good info you can tap into too.

I've attached a zip file of a spreadsheet that might provide some utility in "walking" through the process I've suggested, before breaking out the checkbook.

Cheers - Jim

NOTE: I'd add the "hidden costs" of CONNECTIONS, all the wire, connectors, tools etc, but that is for another discussion. At this point, you'll have a pretty sound estimate on the COSTS. Guess that makes it 5 Cs!

[GNCHolt]

Thank you, I am studying. So much to know. Somehow I expected it to be more uniform or consistent. Maybe more like the auto industry. I do understand already that it is very independent of model, age,expected use and such. Makes sense. Something tells me ,going forward, I'll understand MY unit better, but maybe not another. Actually, that's probably not true. Like most things, it will help to understand other units too.
So one of my first questions is,,,, the previous owner had replaced the battery just before I came along. The battery under the drivers feet is a Mercedes branded, and looks new. But,,, the battery under the hood in the engine compartment, looks like the same battery. I noticed it about 2 months ago but didn't take any photos of the one under the drivers floor. I need to open it again to verify. So,,,,if they are the same, shouldn't the coach battery be a deep cycle type instead of a starter battery? How can I verify what type it is? When I google the battery numbers, all I can find is that it's a MB sprinter battery.We're using the van every couple weeks on long weekends to get used to it. A few times I noticed the battery level very low. Times like, we stop for lunch and forgot to switch the fridge to propane for an hour maybe. Should the right type battery not last an hour if just the fridge is running? Earlier, on a cold night the furnace wouldn't start after 1 or 2 am for the same reason. Now it's warmer and I want to feel it's ok to let the exhaust fan on for the dog. Just getting started with all this, but I'm genuinely interested.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by GNCHolt

Thank you, I am studying. So much to know. Somehow I expected it to be more uniform or consistent. Maybe more like the auto industry. I do understand already that it is very independent of model, age,expected use and such. Makes sense. Something tells me ,going forward, I'll understand MY unit better, but maybe not another. Actually, that's probably not true. Like most things, it will help to understand other units too.
So one of my first questions is,,,, the previous owner had replaced the battery just before I came along. The battery under the drivers feet is a Mercedes branded, and looks new. But,,, the battery under the hood in the engine compartment, looks like the same battery. I noticed it about 2 months ago but didn't take any photos of the one under the drivers floor. I need to open it again to verify. So,,,,if they are the same, shouldn't the coach battery be a deep cycle type instead of a starter battery? How can I verify what type it is? When I google the battery numbers, all I can find is that it's a MB sprinter battery.We're using the van every couple weeks on long weekends to get used to it. A few times I noticed the battery level very low. Times like, we stop for lunch and forgot to switch the fridge to propane for an hour maybe. Should the right type battery not last an hour if just the fridge is running? Earlier, on a cold night the furnace wouldn't start after 1 or 2 am for the same reason. Now it's warmer and I want to feel it's ok to let the exhaust fan on for the dog. Just getting started with all this, but I'm genuinely interested.

Battery under the driver’s floor is the engine battery and under the hood is an auxiliary battery. Both of them could be AGM or flooded. I have MB flooded battery under the floor and one of the two coach AGM batteries under the hood. Not an ideal scenario to connect both coach AGMs and engine battery on alternator circuit but works fine for the last 11 years.
I use Magnum Battery Separator manually switchable to charge either AGMs from alternator or engine battery from Magnum charger or PV.

It is good to know that engine battery disconnect is under the dashboard on the right driver side just above the accelerator pedal. It is good to disconnect it if you planning to park for a few weeks without charging source. In my van 2013 this disconnect is visible on newer vans they are covered with a plastic door.

[NAZCamperVan]

The FitRV provides a well-explained 'Understanding RV Electrical Systems'.
https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tech/rv-...for-beginners/

[SteveJ]

The 12 volt side of life parts one and two could be helpful. Link to part one:

The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)

A caveat, though. This site is dated so not much, if any, data on lifpo batteries and systems.

[sparkyfourhire]

I personally find the term "coach battery" confusing, but maybe it is used for the house power? I am not familiar with the Pleasureway specifically, but generally the chassis (engine) battery or batteries are separate from the house batteries, other than both possibly being charged by the same alternator, depending on the system. I agree with others that the battery under the driver's feet in MB Sprinters is for starting the engine and not for the house electrics. I don't know if the battery under the hood is to supplement the chassis starting battery or is it for the house power? Is there another location for a house battery?

Since OP is having issues with house power (fridge and furnace), then the house battery needs to be identified and tested, both for holding charge and also RECEIVING a charge. The issue may be with the charging system. Having been a sticks-and-bricks electrician for 20+ years, I find batteries and charging a little hard to get used to, so as a new RV owner, you may have a bit of a learning curve ahead of you. Step one: learn which system is which. Step two: learn how each system works. Step three: learn what it means when each system doesn't work.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by sparkyfourhire

I agree with others that the battery under the driver's feet in MB Sprinters is for starting the engine and not for the house electrics. I don't know if the battery under the hood is to supplement the chassis starting battery or is it for the house power?

Two things:
1) Not all Sprinter have two chassis batteries. It is an option.

2) Which battery is at which location in a Sprinter changed over the years:
--Older T1Ns had the starter battery in the engine compartment, and the optional "auxiliary" battery was placed under the front passenger seat.
--NCV3s had the starter battery under the floor near the driver's seat. The optional auxiliary battery was in the engine compartment.

In both cases, the "auxiliary" battery came from the factory with no load connected to it. The engine kept it charged, but it was up to the upfitter to decide how to use it.

I do not know how current production Sprinters are configured. I assume it is the same as the NCV3.

[sparkyfourhire]

I think avanti points to the OPs original post, in that they need to figure out what they need to learn BEFORE they start wrenching. Is there an easy way to identify which is the chassis (engine) battery and which is the house battery, so that they can start diagnosing their house-power issue?

[GNCHolt]

So I looked at the battery under the drivers floor today. It’s exactly the same (starter) battery as under the hood. BTW, I see in the related 2014 manual, PW says it should be a starter battery as well??? Is it just older tech? What is the best option today?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GNCHolt

So I looked at the battery under the drivers floor today. It’s exactly the same (starter) battery as under the hood. BTW, I see in the related 2014 manual, PW says it should be a starter battery as well??? Is it just older tech? What is the best option today?

If it is a 2013 or 2014 Sprinter, then the battery under the driver's side floor is definitely the starter battery. The one under the hood is auxiliary. As I said, the latter comes from the factory not connected to any load. If it does anything (a lot don't), it is something done by PW. It is normal for the two batteries to be identical IIRC. They are both "starter batteries", but only the under-floor one is used as such.

Not sure what you mean by "best option". If you mean just replacing the starter battery, then just buy an equivalent one from Batteries Plus or NAPA. If you are looking to upgrade the aux battery, you first need to figure out what it does. I guess it could be your only house battery -- PW should be able to tell you.

[GNCHolt]

Thanks, yes it runs low very quickly. It only takes about an hour if I leave the fridge on while we go in somewhere for dinner. By low I mean one light on the test panel. I’m hoping a deep cycle or agm would serve us better. Also in the winter, it wouldn’t start the furnace after 1am because the battery ran low.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GNCHolt

Thanks, yes it runs low very quickly. It only takes about an hour if I leave the fridge on while we go in somewhere for dinner. By low I mean one light on the test panel. I’m hoping a deep cycle or agm would serve us better. Also in the winter, it wouldn’t start the furnace after 1am because the battery ran low.

Ah. Then replacing with a good AGM would probably be worthwhile. Just use the largest quality 12V AGM that will fit in the available space. However, before doing this, you need to confirm that there is not another house battery somewhere, as George described above. If there is, you really want to replace both of them at the same time.

[GeorgeRa]

Search for “ek1-body-builder-electrical-connectors” to see details of the auxiliary battery connection. I use Magnum Battery Combiner ME-SB to connect auxiliary batteries to alternator via MB relay located under the driver seat. You can place a group 31 battery on the MB tray under the hood, I have Fullriver DC 115Ah there.

If you decide to use an independent charging source you can tap to this battery under the driver seat.

[Uncle_Rico]

If you haven't already, be sure to thoroughly read the electrical system description in your owners manual. You can download it from the Pleasure-Way website if its missing. I then found it useful to physically locate each of the electrical components, noted the make/model, and downloaded details for each from the manufacturers website. Lots of interesting reading.