Surge Guard

[Raxel7851]

I’m seriously thinking of purchasing a surge guard/voltage detector for my class B. 30A of course. I’d like to hear of experiences you may have had using them and also what brand you like/dislike. As most of you know there are many different models and they tend to be very expensive. Thanks!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Raxel7851

I’m seriously thinking of purchasing a surge guard/voltage detector for my class B. 30A of course. I’d like to hear of experiences you may have had using them and also what brand you like/dislike. As most of you know there are many different models and they tend to be very expensive. Thanks!

What is your objective?

If you want fancy AC power analysis, yes it is expensive. But this is often redundant with features of quality inverter/chargers, and IMO is of marginal value.

If you literally need surge protection (which is very often all that is necessary), you can do this very inexpensively by going to Home Depot and buying a simply whole-house serge protector. They have better specs than any of the RV-specific units, and are much cheaper. This is what I installed:

surge.jpg

[mkguitar]

I work with electronics- guitars, amps & concert sound systems



I carry a voltmeter and TEST the power pedestals before plugging in


The voltmeter is a "freebie w coupon" from harbor freight - it works fine ( I also own Fluke meters which cost $3~400)


Test the voltage HOT to Neutral and hot and neutral to ground, with nothing plugged in-



Hot to Neutral should be 110~126

Hot to Ground should be 110~126 ( same value as about within 2%)
Neutral to Ground should be less than 5 volts, ideally 0


the USA nominal 117 volts in many areas line voltage is now closer to 125


The ground usually depends on a stake into moist earth*- given that the water connection is usually by the pedestal, the soil is almost always moist and a good path for any electrons going the wrong way





I have found campground pedestals miswired a couple of times- each case has been in a private C/G...throw a bag over it and relocate or they send a guy out to fix
If the pedestal looks in bad repair- don;t use it ( they seem to get run into alot)



most cheap "surge" are merely a capacitor which blows up if it senses a surge ( usually too late for any real issue)


I don't have one or worry about it


There are plenty ways to spend money...I save mine to spend on vintage guitars


Mike


* did a show in Seoul once with power issues, walked the big cables out to the generator and found they'd put the temp ground stake into essentially a large "planter" outside the arena- earthworms were coming up out of the soil. stripped insulation off the ground cable and attached to a fireplug with visegrips. fixed!

[Raxel7851]

Thanks, but I think I’ll go with something that has a few more features and safeguards than that. IMHO, cheaper isn’t always the way go.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Raxel7851

Thanks, but I think I’ll go with something that has a few more features and safeguards than that. IMHO, cheaper isn’t always the way go.

Again, what you are trying to accomplish? More expensive isn't always the way to go, either. It is quite possible to make a rational cost-effectiveness analysis, but you have to have a goal first. As I said, if you are looking for surge protection (which is what you asked about), no RV-specific product that I have ever seen comes close to providing the level of protection that the item I specified will (and I have looked closely). You can look up the numbers. If you want something else, tell us what it is and we can help. If you just want to spend money, well, that's easy.

Do you know what protection your rig already has? This is a case where belt-and-suspenders doesn't help.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Raxel7851

I’m seriously thinking of purchasing a surge guard/voltage detector for my class B. 30A of course. I’d like to hear of experiences you may have had using them and also what brand you like/dislike. As most of you know there are many different models and they tend to be very expensive. Thanks!

IMO, the Cadillac protectors are made by Progressive Industries. I have used their hard wired units (EMS-HW30C) and currently use their portable version (EMS-PT30X). Expensive but the quality is top notch.

[markopolo]

I'm in agreement with Avanti on this topic and have been for years. First identify what you are trying to protect against. Then identify what protection you already have including tolerances. Then purchase and install what's needed.

The 3,400 Joule rating of the Leviton device noted is almost double the 1,790 Joule rated Progressive EMS-PT30X for example. And it is UL 1449 3.0 Edition certified as a SPD (Surge Protective Devices). I looked into it years ago and only found UL E213280 for the Progressive Industries EMS I looked at then. E213280 is for Miscellaneous Apparatus if I recall correctly.

I'm not suggesting to not buy a Progressive Industries EMS. It might be exactly what you need.

In fact, I see no reason to not use both if required.

[markopolo]

These should be considered:

https://hughesautoformers.com/power-...ge-protectors/

The surge protection unit is replaceable ($21 module for the 30A hardwired) - instead of having to purchase the entire EMS again after a disabling surge event. Also, free surge module replacement if ‘used up’ within the first 2 years of purchase.

If your surge module is ‘used up’ within the first 2 years of purchase, Hughes Autoformers will mail you one FREE replacement. (One free replacement offer only within the first 2 years of purchase. Proof of purchase required, proof of used up surge module also required, US only)

[rowiebowie]

I use this Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X . It protects from any & all electrical problems you could reasonably encounter while plugged in. I think I paid about $50 less that this price, but that was two years ago. It has detected "open grounds" and "reversed hot/neutrals" on a couple of occassions. I moved sites in both instances after alerting camp employees (who seemed to not be concerned).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[rvsprinterguy]

I use a Progressive Industries SSP-30XL. I like its ability to display potential problems with a campsite pedestal, in addition to providing surge protection.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

I use a Progressive Industries SSP-30XL. I like its ability to display potential problems with a campsite pedestal, in addition to providing surge protection.

https://www.amazon.com/PROGRESSIVE-I...2586056&sr=8-1

Certainly more affordable than my Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X at less than 1/2 the cost. Not sure what you give up other than the digital display. Worth checking out.

[RAA357]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

IMO, the Cadillac protectors are made by Progressive Industries. I have used their hard wired units (EMS-HW30C) and currently use their portable version (EMS-PT30X). Expensive but the quality is top notch.

I agree with you 100%, my Progressive Industries
Surge Protector with polarity tester saved my RT210 from damage while camping last year.
The camp ground took several lightning strikes and numerous RVs sustained damage to their electrical components. They did not have any surge protection devices.

I sustained no damage at all.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RAA357

I agree with you 100%, my Progressive Industries
Surge Protector with polarity tester saved my RT210 from damage while camping last year.
The camp ground took several lightning strikes and numerous RVs sustained damage to their electrical components. They did not have any surge protection devices.

I sustained no damage at all.

There is no question that surge protection is very important (and most inverter/chargers don't have this built in). But, as I have been trying to say, the fancy Progressive Industries devices are inferior for this purpose to the much cheaper whole house devices that are readily available at any Home Depot. People keep insisting that the expensive items are better, but this is false, unless you need the AC power analysis features. As I said, these are typically built-in to high-end inverter/chargers. Having them twice is pointless and simply slows down the start-up process upon connection (often by a lot). If you have some reason to want to monitor things like line frequency, that is a different story, but I can't imagine this being important to the typical RVer, since this is an extremely unusual failure mode on the grid. It IS a good idea to check voltage, but there are trivially easy ways to do that.

IMO, the PI devices are overpriced and overhyped. Cognitive dissonance tends to make people like them anyway.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

There is no question that surge protection is very important (and most inverter/chargers don't have this built in). But, as I have been trying to say, the fancy Progressive Industries devices are inferior for this purpose to the much cheaper whole house devices that are readily available at any Home Depot. People keep insisting that the expensive items are better, but this is false, unless you need the AC power analysis features. As I said, these are typically built-in to high-end inverter/chargers. Having them twice is pointless and simply slows down the start-up process upon connection (often by a lot). If you have some reason to want to monitor things like line frequency, that is a different story, but I can't imagine this being important to the typical RVer, since this is an extremely unusual failure mode on the grid. It IS a good idea to check voltage, but there are trivially easy ways to do that.

IMO, the PI devices are overpriced and overhyped. Cognitive dissonance tends to make people like them anyway.

One thing to remember is that not all of the class b's run the AC through the inverter to all the outlets, with Roadtrek being the largest amount I would guess. Only the "inverter" outlets run through the inverter/charger so only the kitchen and audio cabinet would be protected if the charger faulted out on bad power. All the rest of the outlets run directly off the transfer switch and only on shore power so no protection.


That is how ours was wired from the factory and we got a plug in power tester for about $35 IIRC, but never remembered to use it for various reasons (like rain), so I finally put in the built in protector that covered them all. A nice feature over having the inverter do it is that if the inverter faults out and doesn't pass through, they rarely will tell you what is wrong with the power, where the protector will.

[RAA357]

To each his own.... I have no issue with paying for something that i know works.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by RAA357

To each his own.... I have no issue with paying for something that i know works.

They ALL work, just provide different features/accuracy. Please let know what you choose for your rv.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by RAA357

I agree with you 100%, my Progressive Industries
Surge Protector with polarity tester saved my RT210 from damage while camping last year.
The camp ground took several lightning strikes and numerous RVs sustained damage to their electrical components. They did not have any surge protection devices.

I sustained no damage at all.

Au contraire! No damage at all? Hardly! Aren't you even dimly aware that Dr. Avanti has diagnosed you as suffering from terminal cognitive dissonance?

[Rockwood27]

I use portable Surge Guard 50A EMS on my 5th wheel in FL and a built in Progress Industries 30A EMS in my Roadtrek. I keep the Roadtrek plugged in all the time at my house and in the last several weeks it has detected low voltage and high voltage events. The events trip the EMS relays and shuts the power off until it gets back to normal. This past winter, the 5th wheel had a similar issue with a 90 volt leg and the EMS shut down. It turns out the pedestal was bad and had to be rewired. A surge protector (non EMS) may not protect you from over or under voltage conditions.

[RAA357]

SSP 30X. Progressive Systems is what I am using on my RT210 Versatile.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Rockwood27

I use portable Surge Guard 50A EMS on my 5th wheel in FL and a built in Progress Industries 30A EMS in my Roadtrek. I keep the Roadtrek plugged in all the time at my house and in the last several weeks it has detected low voltage and high voltage events. The events trip the EMS relays and shuts the power off until it gets back to normal. This past winter, the 5th wheel had a similar issue with a 90 volt leg and the EMS shut down. It turns out the pedestal was bad and had to be rewired. A surge protector (non EMS) may not protect you from over or under voltage conditions.

Was anything in your house damage or affected by those voltage fluctuations? Just curious to know if you noticed it at all in the house or could it be considered nuisance tripping or a problem with the EMS itself.