Solar panel controller

[themexicandoctor]

GeorgeRA,

I rarely connect to Shore Power, its just me driving, solar & the occasional generator exercise that charges the batteries.

My contact at Lifeline said "our Batteries can be equalised every month, they love a high charge of 15.5 ..."

I believe him, these batteries in my opinion are the best on the market & the fact I am rarely connected to Shore Power & my system may not be operating presently at the level of sophistication & efficiency that people Ike you, Winston, Booster & others enjoy, its like added insurance for me.

As it is, my Magnum is reading 15.4, 0 amps.

Whereas my Victron is teading 15.2, 3.65 amps, 55 watts so I will know now in the future, not to rely on the Magnum Remote readings but the Victron.

[GeorgeRa]

I am lost in these posts so to refresh my memory please correct or add or answer.
- You have Victron monitor with its shunt
- You have Victron solar charge controller
- You have Magnum inverter / charger
- You have Magnum ARC50 monitor
- Do you have Magnum ME-BMK?, that is shunt with battery monitor which connects with inverter / charger
- Both chargers, Victron and Magnum are connected in parallel with Lifeline AGMs

[Winston]

MDoc, as Booster noted, the Magnum ARC50 is inaccurate in its current measurements . . . we never use the Magnum ARC50 for determining current. Your single best instrument is the Victron 712 monitor where you can continuously monitor the charge/discharge battery current.

Remember that 'current sums'; thus, => The Current Into Your Battery (per Victron 712) = The Current from your Solar Controller (per the Victron Solar Controller) plus The Current from the Magnum minus The Current Going to the Loads. You have accurate measurements of Solar and Battery currents . . . so you have two unknowns, your load current and the Magnum current. If you unplug shorepower (or turn-off the Magnum charge function), then you can directly compute your load current - - often useful information. And, once you know your load current you can compute the Magnum current.

Another observation on the Magnum charger - - remembering that ours is programmed for a Constant Voltage - - we have found that the Magnum Charger may not 'start' until the battery voltage is actually below the programmed value. So, when we program our Magnum for 13.4 volts, the Magnum may not start (charging) until the battery drops to 13.3 volts.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by booster

Solar absolutely will contribute and could shut off the output to the batteries. You solar voltage is higher than the Magnum voltage so that is a sure sine it will be carrying almost all the load.

Even though now the Solar is reading O?

FORGET THE ABOVE COMMENT, I WAS STUCK ON A CALL FOR AN HOUR

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I am lost in these posts so to refresh my memory please correct or add or answer.
- You have Victron monitor with its shunt
- You have Victron solar charge controller
- You have Magnum inverter / charger
- You have Magnum ARC50 monitor
- Do you have Magnum ME-BMK?, that is shunt with battery monitor which connects with inverter / charger
- Both chargers, Victron and Magnum are connected in parallel with Lifeline AGMs

I do not believe that I have the BMK because I already have the Victron Meter.

But everything else is correct but I do not know if the Victron & Magnum are connected in parallel with the Lifeline AGMs but I am sure they are hooked uo correctly.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by Winston

MDoc, as Booster noted, the Magnum ARC50 is inaccurate in its current measurements . . . we never use the Magnum ARC50 for determining current. Your single best instrument is the Victron 712 monitor where you can continuously monitor the charge/discharge battery current.

Remember that 'current sums'; thus, => The Current Into Your Battery (per Victron 712) = The Current from your Solar Controller (per the Victron Solar Controller) plus The Current from the Magnum minus The Current Going to the Loads. You have accurate measurements of Solar and Battery currents . . . so you have two unknowns, your load current and the Magnum current. If you unplug shorepower (or turn-off the Magnum charge function), then you can directly compute your load current - - often useful information. And, once you know your load current you can compute the Magnum current.

Another observation on the Magnum charger - - remembering that ours is programmed for a Constant Voltage - - we have found that the Magnum Charger may not 'start' until the battery voltage is actually below the programmed value. So, when we program our Magnum for 13.4 volts, the Magnum may not start (charging) until the battery drops to 13.3 volts.

I possess a low level of sophistication aka electrical savvy presently so I will take your word as gospel as to the future benefit of knowing load current, etc.

[themexicandoctor]

This is the latest info from my Victron BMV712

If i have learned anything today its not to trust the magnum which is reading 15.4, 0amps

[themexicandoctor]

Have yet to hear back from Magnum as to the reason why as of yet.

I do know my Meter on the Magnum Remote & the Victron BMV712 were both reading 12.8 when i disconnected the power last night.

Could it have been that it was 12.8 but needed the final few amps to hit the 12.9 before it went into Float?

Or could it have been the fridge & a couple of lights keeping it at 12.8?

NEXT TIME I will consult the Victron for info, NOT the Magnum.

[themexicandoctor]

It seems I did intuitively, these two screenshots are the reading at the time I couldn't get it to enter Float, in order for it to be then put into Equalisation.

So maybe it needed the final few amps (seen here as 5.28amps) to hit Float?

Because its been a while since it was Equalised (about 2 months) especially with the key factor in all of this month of doubts & uninformed questions bombarding the forum;

The addition of the DC Compressor Fridge

[themexicandoctor]

I do see the battery temp at 30% which is a sure sign that at midnight in LA, some energy is being transferred versus a typical non charging state temperature around 22% or lower.

[booster]

I looked at the Magnum site, and it appears the Dr's model won't accept a BMK.


If there is a BMK he will have another two screens that give BMK voltage and BMK amps, and they are as accurate as the Victron as they come off the shunt. The screen that he is looking at is the internal amperage measured in the charger, so would include loads, and the starting battery if connected also, plus it is an not precise measurement.

[themexicandoctor]

Thank you Booster.

And everyone else, still a couple of questions;

Although the period between disconnect & reconnection was about 7 hours, what do you think happened?

Because there were no other charges going in or like someone mentioned, there needs to be enough of a drop to stimulate the Magnum to step down?

Could it be that the batteries did need the continued 14.3 Absorb charge because they weren't anywhere near full ie; those Amps were going into the void created by recent sulfate buildup?

Do you still recommend the higher charged voltage setting of a conservative13.6 to fool the Victron systems & artificially create a higher demand?

Can we put that out for a more vigorous discussion.

In response to last night's hijinks I temporarily moved it back down to 13.2 but I am willing to return to 13.6 but if I did so, would that be an issue with the Magnum supplying power via shore power versus my usual source, the alternator & what it appears, oncluding basic & even more expensive & easily fooled Solar Controllers, despite their improved engineering?

I am parked here in one spot until I get to Magnum Heaven aka a FULL Reading at the Remote.

Usually within 12-20 hours I am there.

[booster]

I think what is getting missed here is that the Victron monitor has nothing to do with charging, either in settings of voltages, full battery etc. All it can do is look at the batteries and see amps and volts and combine those readings with times. The charging is controlled by the shore charger, solar controller, and the engine alternator, and none of them are likely to do a consistent job of charging to full without overcharging because the are timer and algorithm style systems, except for the alternator which has no controls of charge profile except a basic regulator in it set to get the starting battery full.


Trying to figure out what the charging sources are actually doing is not an easy task, but any stretch of the imagination. I would normally recommend spending a bunch of time with the as much of the tech details on both the solar and shore chargers learning exactly how they control the charging if they are alone in charging. Then I would look for how they could interfere with each other. Then I would look at what having the engine running would do to both or either of their control profile. Then I would look at what having loads on in the van would do to all of the above.


At that point, I would watch the Victron monitor under various conditions of charging to see if the chargers are doing as I would expect from the literature. Only then would I try to do stuff to get things under control.



It just seems to me we are going in circles with changes and throwing stuff at the wall hoping it sticks and doesn't bounce back onto us. I think you really would need to get quite a ways up the food chain at Victron to get someone who truly understands how they systems work, probably called a "systems integrator" or "system designer" who would primarily work on fancy, expensive, yacht systems. I fear most of the local installers and particularly the sales reps are short of real technical skill and don't have a clear picture of what the systems do or are expected to be able to do.


My guess is that if the Victron shore charger and the solar controller could be paired up with the Victron monitor so the monitor centrally controlled the charging by using the shunt readings and the monitor correct settings, there would then be a really nice, accurate, and no hassle system in place. That is the stuff the systems designers do.

[themexicandoctor]

Thank you Booster,

You are talking to an Acolyte who isn't comfortable in a discussion as deep as a toodlers blow up,, let alone the deep end of the pool.

I will talk with my Guru, he knows all this stuff but never felt needed to share it bin detail because I knew what he was doing & he knew, I didn't have the slightest idea but will it work if I need this or that?

I did want to share this with you after a conversation with the rep from last week who spoke directly to me the Town Fool, about questions you asked about Communication between systems to improve performance & he suggested that this is why these two devices, were designed, one a step up from the other:
https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...ote-monitoring

The Venus
https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...oring/venus-gx

And the Colour Control
https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...ng/gx-touch-50

Is this is the level of integration you would understand & I have seen it surfing the YouTube Van Life videos of expensive solar & lithium builds?

Again, I think Victron far outperform everyone when it comes to this technology, U only regret uscthst they didn't have a snall enough 12 volt inverter when I purchased the Magnum.

[booster]

yep, I have looked at all of those, and they talk about all kinds of centralizing of data, but I could not find anyplace the answered the question if the charging profile can be actively managed by the Victron monitor so you can do the control based on monitor determining when the batteries are full, or in need of charge, based on the shunt read data for voltage and current. If your guy can answer that, he would be filling in a lot of gaps.

[themexicandoctor]

I am expecting my Guru to answer questions ONLY to my set up & to get me to a level of understanding that fills in the gaps between.

You are a Engineering Expert.

Victron Energy are very open to answering questions, skipping the dealer level & going straight to the Horse's Mouth in their head office overseas.

Moreover you are the type to answer the hard questions & understanding their entire import, across all systems as stand alone & integrated if only via wired connections.

They have easy to watch videos, etc but I know that never satisfies your level of sophistication & enquiry.

It would be a Godsend if you could shoot a few arrows their way & then share the answers here.

I do know, at the executive/ownership level at places like AM solar & the other organization, the AltE Store who have those great videos in YouTube, they might be able to answer these questions also.

Again, people like you, Winston & others are Goants whose shoulders we surf upon.

Its all Swahili to me even though snippets I understand.

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

I am expecting my Guru to answer questions ONLY to my set up & to get me to a level of understanding that fills in the gaps between.

You are a Engineering Expert.

Victron Energy are very open to answering questions, skipping the dealer level & going straight to the Horse's Mouth in their head office overseas.

Moreover you are the type to answer the hard questions & understanding their entire import, across all systems as stand alone & integrated if only via wired connections.

They have easy to watch videos, etc but I know that never satisfies your level of sophistication & enquiry.

It would be a Godsend if you could shoot a few arrows their way & then share the answers here.

I do know, at the executive/ownership level at places like AM solar & the other organization, the AltE Store who have those great videos in YouTube, they might be able to answer these questions also.

Again, people like you, Winston & others are Goants whose shoulders we surf upon.

Its all Swahili to me even though snippets I understand.

I haven't tried for a while, but back when I did, I got the "you need to talk to your local dealer/installer on systems" and couldn't really get anything out of them.

[themexicandoctor]

Hmm,

Talk to AM SOLAR, they seem to have a stellar reputation for the big, complex systems that use this technology everyday.

[themexicandoctor]

These are ridiculously inexpensive!

$215-518!

Here is a Kiwi who paid attention in school, I did not.

There are three videos & in the last one he tells you how to save money on all options (typical Kiwi) & using the Headless Venus System - even cheaper!

Watch "Victron Colour Controller In-Depth 1 of 3 : Overview & Settings : Eat Sleep Van 25" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/57rF1aCTkRs

Watch "Victron Colour Controller Part 2 : Devices & Cables : Eat Sleep Van 26" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/5RkpKd2EMV

Watch "Victron Colour Controller Part 3 : Software & Cheaper Alternatives : Eat Sleep Van 27" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/upztH7SSKMM

And plus there are many such videos that are more complex indeed, these three may be for guys like me.

[themexicandoctor]

Here is part 4 of a 5 Part series by amsolar doing a Victron Install with Lithium Batteries that might pique your interest but I don't know if they use the Color Control or Venus systems with either;

Watch "AM Solar: Van Conversion for Solar - Up On The Mountain Pt. 4 - Solar Panels" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/5MTbN-elRAM