Separate LiFePO battery

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

I have found the 10-amp limitation on the Yeti 1000x DC port to be kind of inconvenient.

Agreed, it is borderline. In my case the 10a/120w are just so enough to run everything we usually run, but not enough for higher currency devices (like extending the awning, or starting the generator). Those things could be accomplished with the chassis battery though.

[michaelingp]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

So you are trying to charge the camper house batteries from the power station 110v output? I haven't tried that, I am running the camper 12v accessories directly from the 12v outputs of the PS.

Yes. I'm trying to avoid any re-wiring because it's very difficult in my van, although adding the PowerPoles in parallel would be doable if i was sure it would work and be useful.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

So you are trying to charge the camper house batteries from the power station 110v output? I haven't tried that, I am running the camper 12v accessories directly from the 12v outputs of the PS.

Yes, my power bank is wired directly to the AGM house battery under the passenger seat. The idea is to supplement the power available from that battery. It was simple to implement but has the drawback of being overloaded if the house battery has a low state of charge and draws a lot of current when I connect the Yeti.

It was never my intention to charge the house battery from the Yeti, but the simplistic approach I took has that result.

The next step is to add a DPDT switch, as you described in #16, to isolate the house battery when I want to power things with the Yeti.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

Yes. I'm trying to avoid any re-wiring because it's very difficult in my van, although adding the PowerPoles in parallel would be doable if i was sure it would work and be useful.

I am not sure about your specific situation, but it can be as simple as turning off the house battery disconnect/switch and plugging the 12V output of the PS into one of the 12V (cigarette lighter) ports in your camper.
Re-wiring can make things a bit more convenient, but it is not necessary.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

I am not sure about your specific situation, but it can be as simple as turning off the house battery disconnect/switch and plugging the 12V output of the PS into one of the 12V (cigarette lighter) ports in your camper.
Re-wiring can make things a bit more convenient, but it is not necessary.

This worked perfectly for me. I was kind of afraid of back-feeding the 12-volt circuit through a cigarette lighter port, but since I've reduced my immediate goal to just running the refrigerator, some lights and the water pump, this technique will do the job.

[Urlauber]

I wanted to circle around and report my findings one year after I purchased a 100Ah (1228Wh) LiFePO4 Power Station (PS) to see how I could integrate it into my campers electrical system.

1) My thought was to see if there is a way to "ease into" LFP batteries, aka "drop in solution", meaning using the existing setup in combination with LFP technology. Besides, I wanted some electrical backup for my home in case of power outages (to run the refrigerator and my aquarium pumps).

2) As you perhaps know, these Power Stations are basically batteries with an added inverter, MPPT solar charger, and a few other ins and outs so basically the campers inverter, SCC, etc are not needed and don't need to be upgraded to be Li compatible.

3) There are two issues I found with my particular PS, the first one seems to apply to most of them, while the second one just to this particular one:

a) The 12V output maxes out at 10A, so you can't pull much more than 120W on the 12V circuit out of them. Of course they deliver 1000W via the inverter, but that conversion/inversion wastes some wattage and I am an efficiency freak, trying to keep everything at the 12V level.
b) The max charge power for my particular PS is 180W, which makes recharging it via generator pointless unless you have it running anyway (for air condition, for example)

4) My camping energy usage is about 600Wh in 24h. That means, from a fully charged battery, I can run the camper for 2 full days without any recharging the PS. We almost never go to places where we can plug in, so shore power is pretty much not an option.

5) I have a 190W solar panel on the roof, and a fold-able 100W solar panel that I can strategically place on the roof or windshield or around the camper. There are many situations which affect solar collection, but in general terms, we usually camp in open areas, rarely see clouds, and in Summer, this allows us to easily keep batteries fully charged and boon-dock for unlimited periods.

6) In Winter, and in partially shaded areas, there will be less energy collection, but usually there is some which will extend the battery duration to around four days. If there is no solar collection, as mentioned above, I need to do something after two full days.

7) Besides solar charging (120W max), I can also charge via DC (120W max at ~24V, more like 80W at 13.5V) and USB-C (60W) via a socket I installed. Solar and DC is mutually exclusive, so it is 120W + 60W USB-C for a total of 180W.

8 ) All of this ignores the AGM coach batteries I have currently in the camper. I am planning to dump them when their lifespan is reduced (or now, if I can find an interested buyer), and replace them with a small (35Wh) AGM battery instead. This will act as a buffer, and allow me to charge the PS while driving, remove the PS easily as desired, start generator, extend awning, etc.

9) That is pretty much my LFP conversion. I have considered adding another solar panel to the roof, or moving the existing one back a bit to add some distance from the AC box which shades it if the sun is low and coming from the front. Or add some brackets which will allow adjusting the panels angle to optimize solar collection. None of this is really necessary at the moment as most of the time, I only go camping for two days (Fri afternoon - Sun afternoon). Longer trips usually involve regular driving, so still plenty of opportunity to top off the PS.

10) Everyone is different, your energy consumption and charging etc will all vary and may be completely incompatible with the ideas described in this post.

[Sensfan]

[QUOTE=Urlauber;144313]I have been testing this power station and various connections to and from the RV and it is working well.
Initially I bought this mainly to use up excess energy from the RV solar panel and to have a convenient backup to run the refrigerator/internet in my house in case of power outages. Of course, I can also plug things directly into the RV via a long extension cable. ...

If accessible, could we simply unplug our AC/DC NORCOLD refrigerator from the van's electrical system, then plug it directly into the power station's DC receptacle?
If yes, then there would be no need to turn off the van's battery switch ... yes/no?

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

If accessible, could we simply unplug our AC/DC NORCOLD refrigerator from the van's electrical system, then plug it directly into the power station's DC receptacle?
If yes, then there would be no need to turn off the van's battery switch ... yes/no?

Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer.

However, I love simplicity, and doing this will further fragment the power supply system - Chassis battery, house battery, fridge battery, power station... All of them need to also be charged somehow. But sure, it's an option.

As an example, my Vitrifrigo fridge uses about 50W when running, assuming 30% "on" cycling the 1220Wh power station would be able to run it 1220/50=24 /.3 -> about 81 hours, roughly 3 days, assuming DC.

Personally, I am heavily counting on recharging my various batteries via solar panels to extend the ability to boondock basically w/o limit. A 200W panel provides that, assuming not being parked in a dense forest. I also have a portable 100W panel so I can use one to recharge the house battery and the second to recharge the power station. All in all, goal is being able to maintain battery charge without having to resort to driving/genny/plugin.

[rvsprinterguy]

Very interesting. Thanks for the update!

[Sensfan]

[QUOTE=Urlauber;153631]Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer. ...

Thanks,
AGM batteries have worked very well for us here in Canada. From a technical and financial perspective, it appears logical to go this route with our 2012 190 Roadtrek Ranger.

[Sensfan]

[QUOTE=Sensfan;153640][QUOTE=Urlauber;153631]Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer. ...
--------------------------------
The JUPITEK Portable Power Station S1200, 1228Wh LiFePo4 Battery you refer to is much cheaper than other quality brand names. This raises a flag for me, since I have always believed that in terms of quality, you get what you pay for.
Your thoughts?

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

AGM batteries have worked very well for us here in Canada. From a technical and financial perspective, it appears logical to go this route with our 2012 190 Roadtrek Ranger.

Yes, AGM's have their advantages, working in freezing conditions is one of them. Using a portable/removable Li PS under these circumstances may be a good option vs going all the way with hard-wired LFPs and then having to worry about heating them.

On a completely different note - when you cut off the "/QUOTE" tag it messes up the formatting of your post. Of course, maybe that's intentional.

[Bud]

[QUOTE=Sensfan;153641][QUOTE=Sensfan;153640]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer. ...
--------------------------------
The JUPITEK Portable Power Station S1200, 1228Wh LiFePo4 Battery you refer to is much cheaper than other quality brand names. This raises a flag for me, since I have always believed that in terms of quality, you get what you pay for.
Your thoughts?

Depends on the circumstances in terms of a low price. I would rarely buy 'refurbished" electronics.

I had no intention of buying one of them power stations until about a month ago when the Low price ........ I could not pass it up. The B or window unit I have at home.... I screwed up and should have posted the link here on the B Forum.

2000 wh
2200 w
25 dc out

$629 delivered.

https://tools.woot.com/offers/ideapl...ation-2000wh-4

[Urlauber]

[QUOTE=Sensfan;153641][QUOTE=Sensfan;153640]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer. ...
--------------------------------
The JUPITEK Portable Power Station S1200, 1228Wh LiFePo4 Battery you refer to is much cheaper than other quality brand names. This raises a flag for me, since I have always believed that in terms of quality, you get what you pay for.
Your thoughts?

It's a very good question. With "quality brand names", you also expect some measure of warranty and support, which may be limited when you go no-name. Also, just an established name calls for higher premiums. Getting to that said established name requires advertising, by the brand and by "influencers" which is costly and needs to be added to the price of goods.
Finally, manufacturers will always try to maximize their profits, so there's that. Folks are willing to pay for a sort of insurance, real or imagined, that comes with an established brand.

The mentioned Jupitek PS was originally $600 and has been dropping since, not unlike we have seen with other regular LiFePO4 batteries, which can nowadays be had for $150. They are saving expenses somewhere, just not sure if it is in their reduced support structure, less advertising, or by using cheaper components, along with lower profit margins. I don't work for them, but I like value when I see it, and I think in this case one gets a lot...

Just thought of an example - if you use battery/cordless tools, you are probably in one or more "ecosystems" to share batteries. The OEM batteries are multiple times as expensive as 3rd party batteries. Do you pay for them because they are the established brand, and presumably work better? Or do they all just use 18650 cells of differing origin and do what they say? Personally I bought into the "Makita" system, and an OEM Makita battery costs about $70, while a 3rd party clone about $20. How do they do that???

[booster]

[QUOTE=Sensfan;153640]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer. ...

Thanks,
AGM batteries have worked very well for us here in Canada. From a technical and financial perspective, it appears logical to go this route with our 2012 190 Roadtrek Ranger.

Although their cost advantage has been very, very much reduced by the recent huge slide of lithium pricing, AGM still has advantages for quite few applications, especially for moderate power users with somewhere in the 300 watt range or maybe a bit less depending on the actual power use. Put cold weather on top of the above and AGM looks like a better choice in many cases.


We had a big AGM bank at 440ah but we really didn't use much of it's capacity unless in very poor sun conditions. Reasonable sun conditions would replace out 40-60ah per day use pretty easily even if we were in the high end of the SOC range. We have 300 watts of solar.


The biggest downside of AGM compared to lithium, IMO, is the ability of lithium to run high drain stuff on smaller battery banks of 200ah or so. That was the main reason we had 440ah as we could run the microwave as needed down to at least 40% SOC or lower.


We went fairly big (618ah) lithium as our AGM bank was getting near aging out and I wanted to learn about how lithium actually works in the real world. It has been a very good education and shows how much less than stellar information is out there, and also kind of cleared up some of the conflicting information from the vendors of lithium. It has allowed us to go almost always offgrid and don't even bother to plug in if power is available at campsites.



Would have replacing the AGM been good for us? Absolutely, as they had been totally trouble free over 8 years of use. We don't regret the lithium install either as it was at least a 50% justified learning quest with possible benefits. Time will tell if it is anywhere near as reliable as the AGMs were.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by booster

Although their cost advantage has been very, very much reduced by the recent huge slide of lithium pricing, AGM still has advantages for quite few applications, especially for moderate power users with somewhere in the 300 watt range or maybe a bit less depending on the actual power use. Put cold weather on top of the above and AGM looks like a better choice in many cases.

I have been looking at the weight as well. Not sure how much it matters overall on a little B-Bus, but I like the idea of shedding 150 lbs (200Ah) of AGM and replacing it with 28 lbs (100Ah) of LFP.

[avanti]

[QUOTE=Bud;153643][QUOTE=Sensfan;153641]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

I would rarely buy 'refurbished" electronics.

If we are talking about 'pure' electronics, then I am not sure I agree. Early failures of new electronics do occur occasionally. But, once it has been "field proven", then I think that the odds are that an electronic device will continue to run for a very long time. Plus, a lot of stuff sold as "refurbished" is really just "open box" merchandise that has been returned with little or no use. And, the savings are often significant.

However, if we are talking about stuff with a non-electronic component, such as batteries, that is a different matter.

[booster]

[QUOTE=avanti;153647][QUOTE=Bud;153643]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

If we are talking about 'pure' electronics, then I am not sure I agree. Early failures of new electronics do occur occasionally. But, once it has been "field proven", then I think that the odds are that an electronic device will continue to run for a very long time. Plus, a lot of stuff sold as "refurbished" is really just "open box" merchandise that has been returned with little or no use. And, the savings are often significant.

However, if we are talking about stuff with a non-electronic component, such as batteries, that is a different matter.

Probably a lot of opinions on this one, although in relation to batteries there is probably a lot of agreement as they have a service life by nature.


"Refurbished" as I see it done is not what the dictionary says it is, and I have seen it from the customer and from the vendor side (at my second to last job). Pretty much all returned stuff is just looked at for broken things, missing parts, and appearance and slapped in a new box with a "refurbished" sticker on it. That is what happened at my job. The engineering and quality departments that I was in charge of were overruled by sales and accounting about doing actual checks of the items or even reading why they were returned. We often got the same item back again, if they were a serialized item, and then pulled them out.


For products of known long term durability, like Victron or Blue Sea items probably qualify in most instances, refurbished is probably fine as they want to protect their reputations, would likely be no issues. Other similar parts, like the Asian inverters that have gotten used a lot by OEM RV builders seem to have a higher failure rate so refurbished is probably not a great idea.


Mixed bag for me, and I really have not bought refurbished stuff much lately as most of the time they are pretty close to regular price anyway and pretty near sale prices.

[Sensfan]

[QUOTE=Urlauber;153631]Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer.

This question clearly indicates my lack of knowledge around the subject ... lol.

Where would I plug the Norcold three pronged male plug into the JUPITEK? When I look at the JUPITEK diagram, there appears to be a complimentary AC female, however the DC receptacle appears to be cylindrical.

[booster]

[QUOTE=Sensfan;153649]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Yes, absolutely. I have been considering this, as the fridge is the main energy consumer.

This question clearly indicates my lack of knowledge around the subject ... lol.

Where would I plug the Norcold three pronged male plug into the JUPITEK? When I look at the JUPITEK diagram, there appears to be a complimentary AC female, however the DC receptacle appears to be cylindrical.

If you have an AC/DC frig like many are, you would use AC mode and plug it into the AC outlet on the jumpbox.