RT Battery and Onan generator questions

Mike · 09-22-2008, 11:29 PM

While on the subject of coach/car batteries......
I tried starting the van today after 4 days of sitting. I noticed that we left the coach batteries enabled. I couldn't find any device switched on, which might have drawn down the car battery, and after I boosted the van from my SUV, I enabled the coach batteries again, and they tested "green", fully charged. I tried firing up the generator after the boost, with and without the car engine running and it won't start. Just does the dead battery "clickzzzzzzz" noise. If the fridge is in the AC Off position on dial A, is it drawing 12v? That's how it was last turned off. I've since switched the fridge to the 12v Off position, thinking we've left it drawing 12v while it sat for the last 4 days, but I would have thought it would draw from the coach batteries, not the car battery. I'm trying to think of any other obvious symptoms as I write this, and will post, or if anyone needs a question answered, please ask, if I've omitted something relevant.
I've read the manuals, but am (as usual) at a loss as to what I'm missing or have done wrong.

Anyone, any thoughts (please be kind

)
Thanks,
Mike.

Mike · 09-22-2008, 11:35 PM

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I've got a 2002 RT 190P. The fridge is a Dometic 3 way. I have dual deep cycle coach batteries. I have another question about them, how do I get the panel off of the backmost coach battery? I can get the wingnut off, but I couldn't figure out how to remove the cover from there, and didn't want to force it. Can't find any pictures anywhere to show removal process.

Thanks,
Mike.

Mike · 09-22-2008, 11:49 PM

Thought train number 3, about the genny not starting, is it because the coach batteries are dead? The batteries show green when the test switch is pressed, and I've got a full tank of gas. So my next question is, can the monitor panel show a "false" green for anything, and if so when and why?
Sorry for all the newbie questions, but, I (quite obviously) am.
We're trying to work out all the bugs before our first long trip next weekend, and just when we feel comfortable with the whole thing, another one pops up.

Thanks,
Mike.

markopolo · 09-23-2008, 03:35 AM

Mike - I've made this a new topic.

Something is not right. The van should easily start after sitting unused for only 4 days.

Note: the chassis battery in my 2004 Chevy would be dead after 3 weeks or so of no use so I used to keep a BatteryMinder connected whenever it would be parked for more than a few days. The radio presets, the remote access and compass etc all draw a little current.

There was a light in the "trunk" (drivers side just inside the rear door) in my Roadtrek that ran off the chassis battery. The switch could be knocked by cargo shifting around. I removed the bulb so it couldn't be left on.

From what you describe I'd say your fridge was off and not drawing any current.

The rear battery compartment panel is held in at the bottom with a spring loaded handle (at least is was with my 2004). Pull down on the handle (it is behind the panel) and gently pull the panel away from the van.

markopolo · 09-23-2008, 03:48 AM

How to remove the rear battery cover on a 2002 Roadtrek 190P:

markopolo · 09-23-2008, 04:23 AM

Re: your generator not starting

You are probably correct in thinking that your house batteries are discharged or very low. Running the van motor should have provided enough power however.

Can you connect your van power cord to grid power overnight? That will charge the batteries. Then disconnect from grid power and try to start your generator.

I read in the Roadtrek manual that you'd have to run the generator for twelve hours to fully charge discharged house batteries. It also noted that two hours of the van motor running should charge them.

Mike · 09-23-2008, 04:32 AM

Hi Mark,
I managed to get the back battery open thanks to your pic and instructions.
It only sat for 4 days max, and the car battery was dead. I took it out for a 3 hour drive tonight with the battery disconnect enabled, assuming that would recharge all batteries including the coach ones. Now, everything seems OK, van starts no problem, but the generator won't start. My wife said she could hear the deadly "clickzzzz" sound when I hit the genny starter button the first time, but no roll over/start. Several subsequent attempts produced no starter sound. The generator start switch flickers, but no starter noise from the generator.

Mike · 09-23-2008, 04:36 AM

While I think about it, remote access worked fine, and radio presets all seemed preserved across the battery problem. The CO detector flashes green with the coach batteries enabled. Doesn't seem to go solid green. Don't know if that's a clue. I wish I were a retired electrician.

Thanks for your thoughts about this,
Mike.

markopolo · 09-23-2008, 05:18 AM

I read through a thread on the Yahoo group which described basically the same problem. Unfortunately, the resolution wasn't posted.

There are members on this forum that know a lot more about Onan's than me - hopefully they will respond with suggestions for you.

Mike · 09-23-2008, 12:30 PM

Thanks Mark. I found the battery pics in the manual. I must be going blind or my memory is failing badly, because I couldn't find the aux battery info. I wonder if it could be fuse/breakers, or the aux batteries or car battery, or both, are just cooked. I'll have another check of them all today, after I get back from some errands, if it'll start.
While driving around last night recharging things, I noticed the battery gauge looked like it was just a hair right of centre while driving, which is how it used to be when we first got the van. I know it's not very scientific, but I'm automotively challenged to begin with.
Do others get their RVs serviced at an RV dealer/service centre only, or do people prefer to have their chassis manufacturer (GM, Chrysler) do the automotive work, and then an RV shop take care of the RV stuff? Maybe there's some "poll" material there?

Thanks for the help,
Mike.

VernM · 09-23-2008, 05:05 PM

For what it's worth, my former motor home (an Itasca) wouldn't allow the generator to start on just the coach engine battery. It had to have the house battery switch in house enabled position. Not mentioned in the manual and it cost me two new house batteries before I figured it out.

There is considerable hidden draw on modern vehicles. Especially on motor homes of any size. The refrigerator, all those things you mention, and other circuits such as electric clocks, thermometers, various logic circuits in other things, etc..all draw small amounts of power even with the switches off. Only way ato really know you've disconected it all is to unhook battery cables.

WAPITI · 09-23-2008, 05:39 PM

Hi Mike,

I don't know if this will help, but my thinking is that the onan gen would be hooked to your car battery. If it was hooked to coach batteries, and you ran those batteries down through use, you wouldn't be able to start the gen to charge them. Also, that clickzzzzz sounds like one of two things. Either the battery doesn't have enough charge in it to turn over the gen, or there is a poor connection on the battery terminals. I first test the battery and if it tests out okay, check all connections on posts, etc.

Brian

Mike · 09-23-2008, 06:28 PM

Just back in from errands. Thanks for the input guys. The theory about the gen being run off the car battery makes sense, as you say, if it ran off the coach batts and they drained, you'd be stuck. The van started fine this morning, before I went out, so I'll have a look at connections and batteries again, and may have to pick up a multi-meter to check voltages.
I'll also try enabling coach batts with engine running, before trying the gen again. I'm not covinced the charge status on the monitor panel is 100% true. We left the coach batteries enabled for the 4 days, and (correct me if I'm wrong) there would be a constant (low) draw from the CO and LPG detectors, if nothing else. May not have been much, but who knows? I'll also double check the rear access courtesy light, to make sure it goes out properly (thanks Mark, good idea) although I replaced it with an LED bulb a while back, still you never know, all of it contributes to the overall draw I guess.
I may take it to my local GM dealer and see if they can figure it out (cheaply).
If I find anything that looks amiss, I'll post up asap.

Thanks again,
Mike.

Mike · 09-24-2008, 01:51 PM

Theory # 1.....It looks like the problem may be generator/isolator related. The van starts fine now, no struggles. Battery indicator on monitor panel looks like coach are fully charged (after a bit of lengthy drive/charging Tuesday evening and yesterday). Everything seems normal except when I try the gen, I get a couple of flickers of the orange light in the switch, but no noise, no turn over, no start. I'd look at the generator myself, but wouldn't have a clue what to look for. Is it possible that something has come loose or been knocked loose on it during driving? It appears to be the lowest point of clearance under the vehicle. I don't think I've bottomed it out at all (I do the school bus thing at train tracks, etc.), but maybe? Theory # 2.... if I tried to start the generator a few weeks ago, and it didn't start, and I was distracted and forgot to keep trying it, is it possible that the remote starter switch remained "engaged" and created an undetectable trickle draw on the car battery?
OK, I know, I'm grasping now.
I'm taking it in on Friday to my local GM dealer for a pre-trip checkup. We're going to make an attempt at the Moab, Utah get together at the end of the month.
If they can't help, there's a Cummins/Onan service place not too far from me, so they'll be next.

Thanks again to all for the help/suggestions,
Mike.

markopolo · 09-24-2008, 02:46 PM

Have you been able to check for loose connections at the house batteries and at the generator? If the connections are fine then it seems that the generator starter is the problem.

---------------------------------

Here's a link to a similar problem:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/RV-Repair-83 ... orking.htm

Mike · 09-24-2008, 03:45 PM

Hi Mark,
I checked all the terminal connections at the batteries yesterday and they all seem fine. I read that link and hope it's not as painful for me as it was for her.

Where on the generator would the electrical connections be in relation to the van chassis? I've got a gravel driveway, but could take it somewhere and try to get underneath, if I knew where (side/front/back) to look.
I had a problem with a car some years ago, where the nut holding the battery cable to the starter casing would come loose with temperature changes, so I'm willing to have a look at that as a possibility. I added some lock washers to the mix and it was fine thereafter. Heck, I'll try to look at anything you can suggest first, before paying someone else to find the same thing.

Thanks,
Mike.

Mike · 09-24-2008, 06:18 PM

Hi again,
I managed to find a place where I could hang the back off a curb and get at the back and sides of the genny. Lots of warning labels and I decided there wasn't much I could do about it, as the wires seemed to enter through the front of the unit, and I was unwilling to go any further. Guess I'll have to wait until the thing's up on the hoist on Friday, and then take it from there.
It's probably the generator, or the connections, but it's beyond my skills at present.

Thanks for the help,
Mike.

Mike · 09-26-2008, 04:28 PM

Call off the dogs. I rechecked the batteries this morning with my new multimeter, and all the voltages were normal. While checking the aft battery, which I now know has the genset connections, I noticed the wire from the genset was corroded, and when I loosened the wing nut, it pulled out of the eyelet connector. I've since repaired it, and the genny started up OK.

So, I thank you all for your help and suggestions. This RVing stuff is a great teaching tool, if you know nothing or very little about automotive hardware and mechanicals, I'm finding.

An apologetic and humbled newbie,
Mike.

p.s. We're going to try our best to make the shindig at Moab, now that the genset is working again. You can slap me there, if you like.

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