Roadtrek Zion & generator

[whrfl]

I have a 2017 Roadtrek Zion. My lithium batteries will start & run my A/C without shore power or Generator support. This model does not have an on board generator.

My questions is: if I plug into a 2200W Honda generator, will the system choose it to power the house appliances, most importantly the A/C, or will it choose to simply use the external power from the generator to charge the batteries while the batteries continue to power the house appliances as usual?

If the generator simply charges batteries rather than taking over the load there should be no need for a soft-Start etc.

If the generator picks up the load rather than the batteries, then I have to be concerned about running the A/C.

Anyone with any experience with this?

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by whrfl

I have a 2017 Roadtrek Zion. My lithium batteries will start & run my A/C without shore power or Generator support. This model does not have an on board generator.

My questions is: if I plug into a 2200W Honda generator, will the system choose it to power the house appliances, most importantly the A/C, or will it choose to simply use the external power from the generator to charge the batteries while the batteries continue to power the house appliances as usual?

If the generator simply charges batteries rather than taking over the load there should be no need for a soft-Start etc.

If the generator picks up the load rather than the batteries, then I have to be concerned about running the A/C.

Anyone with any experience with this?

I do not have your system. Do you have an inverter? It sounds like you do since you can run AC from battery bank? When you plug into shore power, can you run your AC without the inverter? If yes, you should be able to connect to Honda 2200i and run AC. I would install a soft start since this will reduce the load on your generator and also increase longevity on your AC unit.

[whrfl]

Originally Posted by Rlum

I do not have your system. Do you have an inverter? It sounds like you do since you can run AC from battery bank? When you plug into shore power, can you run your AC without the inverter? If yes, you should be able to connect to Honda 2200i and run AC. I would install a soft start since this will reduce the load on your generator and also increase longevity on your AC unit.

Thanks for the reply.

I do have a built in inverter that I believe is a 2000W unit which powers the house appliances including the 11,000 BTU A/C. I have never tried plugging into shore power and running the A/C with the inverter off. Good suggestion.

I do know that without shore power the battery bank (2 X 200 amp/hr lithium)will only run the A/C for a short time. However, when plugged into a 20A shore power outlet the A/C will run "all day" without discharging the batteries.

That seems to imply that the shore power is charging the batteries and the batteries are powering the house. But I've never tried powering the house from shore power with the Inverter off. Will try it and get back. Its a 100% chance of rain today so, maybe tomorrow though.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by whrfl

Thanks for the reply.

I do have a built in inverter that I believe is a 2000W unit which powers the house appliances including the 11,000 BTU A/C. I have never tried plugging into shore power and running the A/C with the inverter off. Good suggestion.

I do know that without shore power the battery bank (2 X 200 amp/hr lithium)will only run the A/C for a short time. However, when plugged into a 20A shore power outlet the A/C will run "all day" without discharging the batteries.

That seems to imply that the shore power is charging the batteries and the batteries are powering the house. But I've never tried powering the house from shore power with the Inverter off. Will try it and get back. Its a 100% chance of rain today so, maybe tomorrow though.

Agreed! I believe shore power is both running AC and charging your battery bank.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by whrfl

I have a 2017 Roadtrek Zion. My lithium batteries will start & run my A/C without shore power or Generator support. This model does not have an on board generator.

My questions is: if I plug into a 2200W Honda generator, will the system choose it to power the house appliances, most importantly the A/C, or will it choose to simply use the external power from the generator to charge the batteries while the batteries continue to power the house appliances as usual?

If the generator simply charges batteries rather than taking over the load there should be no need for a soft-Start etc.

If the generator picks up the load rather than the batteries, then I have to be concerned about running the A/C.

Anyone with any experience with this?

Getting back to whether you need a soft start. I would recommend a soft start. On my previous Dometic Penguin II (11K btu) I installed a soft start. I have a Victron 3000/12 inverter charger combo. Even with 3000 watt inverter, it was suggested to install a soft start. This will/should increase the life of your inverted and battery bank. It will also help the Honda 2200 keep up with the AC. I have found in hot weather, the AC, generator and inverter are less efficient so loads can increase. Better to be safe and avoid losing a circuit board on the AC.

[booster]

The generator will behave just like shore power try to what needs doing. If it is running the AC to that, if it is battery charging in will try to do that, if both are asking for power it will try to do both.


But...some chargers will reduce the battery charging to prioritize what power is being used, but not all do that.



Other charger/inverters will help from the batteries under heavy loads, but not all that many of them.


The Honda is very close on having enough power so you could run into issues if the batteries are low, but it is not certain. How full your batteries are could make a big difference.


Does your van have the big alternator in it?, "underhood generator" in Roadtrek speak. I so, that would run the AC through the inverter and maybe the stock alternator would. For that scenario the batteries would help out if needed.

[whrfl]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Getting back to whether you need a soft start. I would recommend a soft start. On my previous Dometic Penguin II (11K btu) I installed a soft start. I have a Victron 3000/12 inverter charger combo. Even with 3000 watt inverter, it was suggested to install a soft start. This will/should increase the life of your inverted and battery bank. It will also help the Honda 2200 keep up with the AC. I have found in hot weather, the AC, generator and inverter are less efficient so loads can increase. Better to be safe and avoid losing a circuit board on the AC.

I tried shore power with batteries ON & inverter OFF.

Result: No 120V power to ANY house appliance. However, all 12V appliances i.e., Refrigerator do work.

So plugged in with inverter off means no 120V house power. I believe that means shore power is only charging the batteries. The inverter takes power from the batteries (being charged by shore power) and provides power to the house systems.

PS: I agree on wisdom of using a soft start on shore power/Geni or battery bank.

[booster]

Originally Posted by whrfl

I tried shore power with batteries ON & inverter OFF.

Result: No 120V power to ANY house appliance. However, all 12V appliances i.e., Refrigerator do work.

So plugged in with inverter off means no 120V house power. I believe that means shore power is only charging the batteries. The inverter takes power from the batteries (being charged by shore power) and provides power to the house systems.

PS: I agree on wisdom of using a soft start on shore power/Geni or battery bank.

I think Roadtrek made some units that required the inverter to be on to charge or get 120v power or charge the batteries, and I am sure someone her would know for sure. Listing the inverter and charger brand and model would help a lot for this.


Even if he inverter is on it won't do anything for running an 120v stuff if on shore power I am pretty sure. There aren't a lot of systems that you can just have shore power with no battery charging AFAIK. We have such an inverter charger and on it I can turn off either the inverter or charger and still have shore power run all the 120v stuff, but I had to put it all in and rewire a bunch of the van to have it work that way.

[booster]

Do you have the owners manual for the lithium batteries? This one may apply.


https://www.roadtrek.com/wp-content/...il-24-2017.pdf


It says the inverter has to be on to charge the batteries.

[whrfl]

Originally Posted by booster

The generator will behave just like shore power try to what needs doing. If it is running the AC to that, if it is battery charging in will try to do that, if both are asking for power it will try to do both.


But...some chargers will reduce the battery charging to prioritize what power is being used, but not all do that.



Other charger/inverters will help from the batteries under heavy loads, but not all that many of them.


The Honda is very close on having enough power so you could run into issues if the batteries are low, but it is not certain. How full your batteries are could make a big difference.


Does your van have the big alternator in it?, "underhood generator" in Roadtrek speak. I so, that would run the AC through the inverter and maybe the stock alternator would. For that scenario the batteries would help out if needed.

I do have the Roadtrek extra 3000W UHG. Also the "Volta" system which automatically starts the engine to recharge the battery bank when battery voltage drops to 12.5V. After (I believe it is 35 minutes) the Volta system shuts the engine down until battery voltage again drops to 12.5V.

This system works very well powering all house appliances including the A?C provided you are willing to risk engine overheating while idling in high temps 35 minutes out of every 1-1/2 hours.

I know that the UHG will charge the batteries whether the inverter is on or off.

In my test on shore power, with batteries ON and inverter Off, I noticed that battery voltage began to increase as soon as plugged into shore power. I am wondering if that means that UHG (12V), shore power, and probably external geni all charge the batteries and do not run 120V appliances directly.

If so the Honda 2200i should be able to maintain the battery bank for very extended periods. Even a 1000W geni would be a beneficial if it was only charging the battery bank.

[booster]

I think you need to get a voltmeter on the system so you can see what is going on as then it will all be much easier to tell.

[whrfl]

I do have the "How To EcoTrek Battery Guide". I note 3 pertinent comments in it.

1. The UHG will charge the batteries whether the inverter is ON or not.
2. The inverter must be ON to charge batteries from shore power.
3. The inverter must be on to power 120V AC appliances. (I assume that is because the inverter takes 12V DC from the battery bank and converts it to AC for the AC appliances). That "implies" that the shore power is not providing power directly to the AC Appliances.

What it DOES NOT tell me is where the AC power is coming from when plugged into shore power.

My shore power test demonstrated that when plugged in with the inverter OFF AC appliances had no power.

As soon as I turned the inverter ON the microwave & A/C work. BUT, is the inverter simply passing 120V from the shore power OR is it still drawing off the battery bank?

The same observation occurs using the UHG only OR shore power.

The inverter is under the power side sofa and is accessed through a 1'X1" door. the labels are not viable and I do know the model number. I would have to remove the power sofa to get access...Not good.

I am under the impression that this "Inverter" is actually an Inverter/Charger which may be why the "Inverter" switch must be ON to charge from shore power, i.e. to turn on the charger.

Either way, shore power, UHG, or geni, the Inverter must be on to provide AC power to appliances. AND the inverter must be on to CHARGE or POWER AC appliances when using shore power or geni.

I suppose the safest solution is:
1. buy a Honda 2200i (expensive 1st step)
2. install a soft start if geni won't handle the A/C start up draw.

[booster]

You need to look up the inverter/charger and the manuals should tell you exactly how it works. Turning on the main unit probably is just to power it and they may or may not keep the inverter output connected but it should be on an internal automatic transfers switch that changes the AC output of the inverter/charger to shore power and shuts off the inverter side AC output to the van but leaves the unit running, and that has nothing to do with the battery charging which is a different part of the unit.


All the inverter/chargers often do things a bit different than others so it is unlikely anybody here is going to know for sure unless they have the same unit and van and the same settings in the inverter/charger.


For instance our Magnum in inverter/charger has an on/off switch on it, but you can set it to turn on whenever shore power is available. The inverter can be turned on off the remote or left off. It doesn't matter if the inverter and charger are both on and we plug in as the unit leaves them that way and just moves the power sent to the van from inverter to shore power.


I don't ever recall hearing of a van that would run the AC off of the batteries when on shore power unless specifically changed to do that, as it would be silly even for Roadtrek's often oddball systems the old company produced.

[booster]

You could just do simple, no tool, test to see what is running the AC when plugged.


Plug with the inverter on and start the air conditioner. If your battery goes dead it was running the AC, if not, shore power was.

[Want a B]

I'm just wondering out loud.

On the outside of your unit there is a male electrical jack that you plug your shore cable into. Roadtrek has some magical stuff inside that routes that shore power properly.

If you connect a cable from a portable generator to the same male electrical jack you would shore power, why wouldn't the Roadtrek magical stuff route the generator power properly? Magical stuff sees 120 VAC and is happy to do its job. Magical stuff wouldn't know if the 120 VAC is coming from a shore power outlet or a generator.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Want a B

I'm just wondering out loud.

On the outside of your unit there is a male electrical jack that you plug your shore cable into. Roadtrek has some magical stuff inside that routes that shore power properly.

If you connect a cable from a portable generator to the same male electrical jack you would shore power, why wouldn't the Roadtrek magical stuff route the generator power properly? Magical stuff sees 120 VAC and is happy to do its job. Magical stuff wouldn't know if the 120 VAC is coming from a shore power outlet or a generator.

Exactly true and would require wiring the generator directly to the air conditioner, I think.


Hopefully, the OP will run the run the battery down or not test as that should resolve the question. IMO there is a very high probability it will do just fine on shore power with the inverter on and the batteries will not discharge, but will charge and no need for the Honda.


The Honda at it's small size and lithium batteries that needed charging would probably be to much for the Honda also, so the batteries would need to be shut off or charged first before the air comes on. Shore power should be able to handle both in most cases.

[DieselLover]

There is a design issue if one needs the Inverter always on when plugged into shore power! One should look into fixing this glitch, I have had RVs that auto transferred the load from battery to generator and then to shore power when plugged in! Made for seamless undocking and setting sail!

Can you imagine the wear and tear on the inverter when shore power is already providing current at the desired voltage, specially if you are using your rig for extended duration and plugged into shore power. There will be heat generated by the inverter funneled into the living space etc etc.

Generators with i have an electronic reserve to conquer slightly above rated loads for a very brief period, and that is a great thing.

I can see the logic of needing the inverter to function when using the batteries/wind/solar but when you have shore power naaah unless you are doing international travels and its all auto voltage adjusting, but even then, letting the inverter run just to step down or up the voltage is a suboptimal implementation. Only reason I can think of is when weight is extremely critical and elimination of all redundancy is sought, like it would be in that original Winnebago chopper camper!

[mowog]

I have never had one but there are “hybrid” inverters that will supplement shore power with battery power as needed. Maybe yours is one of these. Basically I think they power your 120V needs as a pass through, charge the battery if power is available, and draw on battery if power is needed.