Roadtrek power hookup to surge protector

[wny-pat]

Getting brain scrambled. I want to hook up a Hughes Surge Protector and keep it inside the power drawer to protect it from the weather instead of at the campground pedestal. So I need a short converter cord on each side of the surge protector. Think I looking at a female twist on to a male RV on one end. And on the other side, a female RV to a male twist on. Both about one foot long. What is the proper cord description for each cord. I think I need the Camco 55522 18" 30 AMP Standard Male / 30 AMP 90 Degree Locking Female PowerGrip Adapter, and the Camco 55638 Power Grip 12" Dogbone with 90° Locking Adapter - 15MStd/50FAmp . Am I right or wrong???
The Roadtrek is a 30 amp twist on and one end of my long cord is 30 amp twist on. Both ends of surge protector are 30 amp RV plugs.

[mloganusda]

You should be right about your the Camco plugs. You can cut the 30 amp cord and add the right ends to each side and plug the protector in.

MLogan
Smyrna, TN

[GeorgeRa]

You could hardwire a surge protector between your shore inlet and the AC panel. This would give you an option of to use much less expensive home surge protector from Amazon or Home Depot such as this one https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-51110.../dp/B00BV19IG4.

Compare surge capacity between RV ones and this one. Leviton 51110 could have lines combine.

[wny-pat]

I deleted that post twice! Going to cable lock it to park pedestal at whatever park we're at!

[Nic7320]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

...I want to hook up a Hughes Surge Protector and keep it inside the power drawer to protect it from the weather

From this source: https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd50/
it looks like the unit is IP65 rated, so it's designed for outdoor use:

"An IP65 rated enclosure gives protection against low pressure water jets from any direction, as well as condensation and water spray. It’s suitable for most outdoor enclosures that won’t encounter extreme weather such as flooding." (source: https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/ip...0as%20flooding. )

But your idea is still sound, since there are still some external plug connections exposed to rain, and also to protect it from theft. So for those reasons, it's better to have it in the RV.

Also from the manual, it's doesn't look like any of the power faults it can detect (opens and reversed wires) will cause it to disconnect power from the RV like an EMS (Electrical Management System), and I also don't see any low voltage or high voltage checks. So it probably just reports the faults it can detect and then expects the user to do something.

Does it recommend you check the pedestal power with the unit before you plug your RV in?

[wny-pat]

I got the PWD30-EPO. It does everything! Even advertises its self. Gonna lock it to the pedestal!

[Nic7320]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

I got the PWD30-EPO. It does everything!

That's a much better unit. The one I referenced was just a surge protector with a three light tester. Seems like it was trying to compete with EMS units by looking like one, but it only said it was a Surge Protector so it didn't make any false claims. But it was a more robust surge protector.

If you travel in lightning land (such as Florida and many other states) surge protection is very much needed. And you can always add additional protection with plug strips or a wired TVSS unit like GeorgeRa referred to.

[GeorgeRa]

Nice unit, it has replaceable 2,400 Joules MOV surge module for $22. https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ule-pwd30-epo/

In lightning areas it could be good idea to have a spare.

[Nic7320]

This is funny: https://rvmiles.com/why-you-dont-nee...s-for-your-rv/

It says you don't need an EMS, but recommend the Hughes protector with the same features and because it has a replaceable surge protection board. Their point being, EMS is a trade name for Progressive Industries, and there are other brands.

Very clickbait.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Nice unit, it has replaceable 2,400 Joules MOV surge module for $22. https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ule-pwd30-epo/

In lightning areas it could be good idea to have a spare.

They also have a hardwired version that is a bit less money, it appears.


https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo-h/


12X8X5 so I am not sure it would fit where we have protector only hardwire now, need to measure as it might be worth the change.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

They also have a hardwired version that is a bit less money, it appears.


https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo-h/

12X8X5 so I am not sure it would fit where we have protector only hardwire now, need to measure as it might be worth the change.

This is huge, my Leviton 51110 is 2"x3"x4" with 3,400 Joules (55% higher surge capacity).

[Nic7320]

It's more than just a surge protector, it's an electrical management system (but not Progressive's EMS) and it has bluetooth. Pretty nice, I might get one.

My only criticism is that I don't see thermal disconnects on the MOV board. I thought UL1449 required them now. Is it UL listed?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Nic7320

It's more than just a surge protector, it's an electrical management system (but not Progressive's EMS) and it has bluetooth. Pretty nice, I might get one.

Correct, valuable if really needed.

[Nic7320]

I don't see any mention of a UL listing. It might still be in the application process, or they might not design to UL requirements. Two things lead me to believe it's the later, 1: no thermal disconnects. 2: the MOV board doesn't look big enough to maintain 1/2" tracking distances from any Line to Neutral potential (it's hard to tell from that picture of just the top side).

But this feature is really outstanding: App features power monitor, see your Kilowatt Hour usage,
also -- Wirelessly Monitor Voltage and Current Draw (amps) and Watts on your Smartphone in Real Time.

These numbers help when you go off-grid and want to anticipate your battery energy needs. And if the park you're staying at is over charging for electric.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Nic7320

I don't see any mention of a UL listing. It might still be in the application process, or they might not design to UL requirements.

I wouldn't touch such a product with a ten-foot pole if it was not listed by UL or one of its competitors. Proper safety testing is absolutely necessary for potentially-dangerous products, IMO.

[Nic7320]

UL listing might not be mentioned in their sales literature, but that doesn't mean it's not listed or in process of being listed. Maybe wny-pat can look the unit over and see if it's got the UL logo somewhere we're not seeing.

In the early 1990s, I designed two SPDs for Square D sold under the SurgeBreaker name. At that time thermal disconnects were NOT required and it met with UL approval.

Concerned with the overheating MOV issue, I looked online and found a report from a Bainbridge Island electrical line worker that said two houses burned down from floating neutrals, and he repairs two service pole neutral connections going into homes every week. They must have had a bad crimp tool for that problem to be so wide-spread.

A floating neutral on split phase 120/240 is disastrous for MOVs, since the neutral connection keeps the two line voltages L1 and L2 approximately equal. Without a neutral, one side might go well over 200 volts while the other more loaded side drops below 40 volts. Then the high side burns up any MOVs on the circuit since they cannot dissipate continuous power, but the SPD device's fuses might not disconnect the MOVs since the low line side limits the current into the SPD.

Fortunately, this 30 Amp unit doesn't use both L1 and L2, so it's safer than anything on a 240 volt 50 Amp service. So a failed neutral at your pedestal or in your panel will just disconnect your rig. Only if the main distribution transformer to the RV park (or your home) has a bad neutral connection, then the L1 and L2 sides will go unbalanced.

I left that industry years ago, but heard thermal disconnects were going to be put into UL requirements, but I have yet to confirm that.

Here's a rather exhaustive discussion of SPDs from a manufacturer that has MOVs with thermal disconnects:
https://ep-us.mersen.com/sites/merse...Tech-Topic.pdf

Yeah, I know... it's TMI!

Edit: This document dated 2012 sounds like thermal disconnects are in 3rd ed. UL1449:

https://www.powerelectronics.com/tec...ly-with-ul1449

"The new Littelfuse SMOV25 and SMOV35 Series Varistor lines are 25mm-and 34mm-square MOV devices respectively. Each has a thermal disconnect designed to open in the event of overheating due to abnormal overvoltage as outlined in the 3rd edition of UL1449. The close proximity of the integrated thermal element to the MOV body ensures a quick thermal response..." (and it goes on and on).

Problem is, this multi-purpose EMS device might side-step UL1449 by not being listed as a surge protective device.

[booster]

The U.L. missing thing seems to be getting more common in many products. I know even back 20 years ago when the place I was working needed to deal with them for registrations and such, they were incredibly hard to work with, and had fees that could literally price any product with a relatively small market potential to be cancelled or gone without U.L. That happened to us because or product liability insurance required U.L. to be covered.



If I remember the structure correctly, I think ETL and UL are basically the same acceptance by OSHA and other safety stuff and that my explain what is going on. If they are truly reciprocal listing that are interchangeable to in the safety ratings, any international company probably would go to ETL labs instead of UL. At least when we were doing stuff back then, our Euro division that had their own products in some cases, would never go to UL because of cost and hassle.


I have noticed many more products with ETL and no UL lately, even before this discussion, and wondered what was going on or if I was imagining it.

[avanti]

Yes. That is why I was careful to say "UL or one of its competitors". There are several.

It is the rigorous test regimen that is important, not the logo. The modern world would be a dangerous place without this process.

With so much stuff coming from China, proper testing is increasingly important. I am not at all anti-Chinese products--much of what they export is first rate and a great value. Unfortunately, there is a lot of counterfeiting going on, and even legitimate products are not always what they should be. Safety testing is not always a priority.

[Nic7320]

Originally Posted by avanti

With so much stuff coming from China, proper testing is increasingly important. ... Safety testing is not always a priority.

(for some vendors).


Some Amazon vendors play a lot of specsmanship games. "Our product is better because it can do 50% more!" With no brand name to protect and no legal recourse if things fail catastrophically, there's not much motivation to represent products accurately.

Example: Listing a peak power or current value without derating it to something it can sustain under continuous use. These products are highly likely to fail if run near peak values. I ran into that with a power supply.

And here's a different situation I recently ran into: (this IEC inlet connector is advertised to handle 10 Amps)
https://www.amazon.com/button-Adapte...5743845&sr=8-3

It's identical to this same part, now rated at 15 Amps:
https://www.amazon.com/Eilumduo-Sock...744135&sr=8-10

In this case, the part has two different ratings for Europe and NA, and the North America rating is 50% MORE! (same part, same tiny switch, same little 20 mm fuse). A few vendors posted both ratings (for you to sort out). This is bad when you can't trust the numbers they advertise. I suspect they're simply confused by the data sheet they pull their numbers from since EU plugs are much different than NA.

So take this as a warning if you're building anything electrical with Amazon parts. Things are not always what they say.

[Nic7320]

When I asked Hughes "Are your surge protection and EPO products UL listed?"

I got this response:

"Not at this time. They are going under CSA testing as we speak. This will be at least equivalent if not better than UL certification. We should have this completed in about 8 weeks.

Powering Your RV Adventure!

Best Regards,

Brett

General Manager


1523 N. Harmony Cir.
Anaheim CA 92807
888-540-1504 office"