Roadtrek/Hymer Lithium/2nd alternator/Voltstart issues?

[BBQ]

.

We used to rub a bar of soap on the fan belt to reduce the chirping sound.
I am not sure it will do the same trick on modern belts.

[<<B-Guy>>]

As someone who is considering the switch from a 30ft Airstream trailer and 3/4T truck to a class B as we get up in years, I am getting quite overwhelmed with all the great info on the internet generally and specifically on this excellent forum.

One thing that does surprise me is the many negative comments about Roadtrek quality - but then, you will find the same thing on the Airstream forum about their trailers.

Hard to put it in perspective and to know how much weight to put on the these remarks.

I'm sure it is true that most unhappy owners post and most happy owners do not, so I try to keep that in mind! I also found the same on a Goldwing motorcycle forum I used to use.


Apart from their long class B history one thing that does appeal to me about Roadtrek is that we live only an hour from the factory which I think could be a plus!

Something I would like to get a better handle on though, is the electrical issues RT seem to have been plagued with.

When I first read about the under hood generator, lithium batteries, voltstart system I was duly impressed and though that would be what I should opt for if buying new - now, I'm not so sure at all!

I am rather confused by it all! If I were to avoid the Voltstart option, could I still opt for under hood generator, lithium batteries, 3500watt inverter, would that be a sensible choice? We have no pets, so voltstart, while maybe nice to have, isn't so important to me

Would that get me away from most of the issues and be a better option that a standard
Onan or is it best just to forget all these innovations and go with a tried and proven genset?

If I understand, the under hood generator is mounted low on the engine and I did wonder how vulnerable it might be to Canadian road salt spray.

Would I right in thinking that if you opt for lithium batteries and underhood generator the space that would otherwise be devoted to the Onan is now used for more batteries, or does it become available as extra storage space?

Appreciate and advice or comments if you folks with experience were going to buy a new Roadtrek today, given the history.

Perhaps RT have know got things sorted? I am not sure if the newest ones still have problems in this regard.

I know there are no guarantees in this game, just wondering if there is any consensus at this time as to the best way to go for reliability.

We don't often camp anyway without electrical services - I don't think I'd go ou of my way to load up with solar panels.


Thanks ............ Brian.

[booster]

If you are nearly always having shore power available, what would your anticipated needs for the lithium, big inverter, engine generator be? It is a lot of complexity and cost, if you don't really need it.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

As someone who is considering the switch from a 30ft Airstream trailer and 3/4T truck to a class B as we get up in years, I am getting quite overwhelmed with all the great info on the internet generally and specifically on this excellent forum.

One thing that does surprise me is the many negative comments about Roadtrek quality - but then, you will find the same thing on the Airstream forum about their trailers.

Hard to put it in perspective and to know how much weight to put on the these remarks.

I'm sure it is true that most unhappy owners post and most happy owners do not, so I try to keep that in mind! I also found the same on a Goldwing motorcycle forum I used to use.


Apart from their long class B history one thing that does appeal to me about Roadtrek is that we live only an hour from the factory which I think could be a plus!

Something I would like to get a better handle on though, is the electrical issues RT seem to have been plagued with.

When I first read about the under hood generator, lithium batteries, voltstart system I was duly impressed and though that would be what I should opt for if buying new - now, I'm not so sure at all!

I am rather confused by it all! If I were to avoid the Voltstart option, could I still opt for under hood generator, lithium batteries, 3500watt inverter, would that be a sensible choice? We have no pets, so voltstart, while maybe nice to have, isn't so important to me

Would that get me away from most of the issues and be a better option that a standard
Onan or is it best just to forget all these innovations and go with a tried and proven genset?

If I understand, the under hood generator is mounted low on the engine and I did wonder how vulnerable it might be to Canadian road salt spray.

Would I right in thinking that if you opt for lithium batteries and underhood generator the space that would otherwise be devoted to the Onan is now used for more batteries, or does it become available as extra storage space?

Appreciate and advice or comments if you folks with experience were going to buy a new Roadtrek today, given the history.

Perhaps RT have know got things sorted? I am not sure if the newest ones still have problems in this regard.

I know there are no guarantees in this game, just wondering if there is any consensus at this time as to the best way to go for reliability.

We don't often camp anyway without electrical services - I don't think I'd go ou of my way to load up with solar panels.


Thanks ............ Brian.

Your point questioning the weight of negative posts regarding a product is well taken. Posters with negative experiences are more likely to express their dissatisfaction than posters with positive experience. Another factor is the proverbial: long after the song has ended, the melody lingers on. Even years after a manufacturer has resolved a problem, people continue to report it as if it happened yesterday.

With respect to Roadtrek:

The choice of Voltstart, generators, and batteries can all be made independently, although I noticed at the Pomona RV show, every coach they exhibited employed an underhood generator rather than the Onan. In any event you can opt to not get Voltstart and opt for AGM coach batteries rather than lithiums. Having said that, RT is starting to employ packages rather than discrete options in their Sprinter production so it may be more difficult to pick and choose precisely the options you want.

If you opt for lithium batteries, they will be located where the Onan is typically put but depending on the ah level you choose and/or the platform you choose they may also be located elsewhere. On our210PC, three are installed where the Onan normally would be put and one is up front adjacent to the macerator pump.

With respect to the reliability of the two alternatives, IMO, the underhood generator + inverter/converter is a more reliable way to generate 120VAC than the Onan which is probably more affected by underuse than overuse. The underhood generator, (aka GU) is much quieter and is more likely to be tolerated in campgrounds than the Onan.

With regard to RT electrical issues. The Etrek technology was rushed to market in 2015 and did have significant issues. Most of them have been resolved in current production but other than a Voltmeter, there is still no metering of the system to let the user know charge and discharge rates, State of Charge and remaining charge available. Additionally, there are four discrete battery management systems, each of which consumes power internally, so when off grid, some attention has to be paid to shutting down batteries not required for immediate use. And if lithium batteries are chosen, IMO, the solar option is a useful addition.

Voltstart has been a problem for some users. If you are not dealing with pets, it's certainly arguable that it's a $1800 option worth avoiding. Even with pets, I'm not convinced it should be employed for their protection. I'd be more inclined to let the engine run and employ Dash AC and even Roof AC while I was away from the coach for an hour or so.

I haven't heard of any issues regarding an underhood generator on the Sprinters but they are slung pretty low on the Promasters and probably need better protection than that provided at the factory. It's tricky because you want to prevent contact or spray from damaging the GU but at the same time you need to avoid shutting off the ram air that helps to cool the alternator when supplying heavy loads.

One of the things you need to consider is the respective warranties provided by the different upfitters. They vary widely. Winnebago provides a one year warranty on their entire coach. Pleasureway offers a 5 year warranty on their coaches but it excepts appliances and the warranty is not transferable to a second owner. Roadtrek offers a six year unlimited mileage warranty for everything but AGM batteries.

But the cost of benefiting from these warranties is another matter entirely. There is no reimbursement for travel expenses to and from a repair facility or housing waiting for repairs all of which can end up costing a bundle. Consequently, your close proximity to the RT factory, IMO, is persuasive. For one thing, you eliminate most of the travel cost. But the big advantage is that the factory is probably pretty good at a fast diagnosis of a problem and most of all they have the repair parts right there to fix it. The Etrek system is only a couple of years old and the dealers are still a long way from having fully absorbed the expertise to address problems with this system.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

If you are nearly always having shore power available, what would your anticipated needs for the lithium, big inverter, engine generator be? It is a lot of complexity and cost, if you don't really need it.

The OP indicates that they don't generally camp without electrical services, but given their use of a 30ft trailer and 3/4T truck, couldn't this be more a matter of necessity than choice?

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The OP indicates that they don't generally camp without electrical services, but given their use of a 30ft trailer and 3/4T truck, couldn't this be more a matter of necessity than choice?

That would be for the OP to answer, but the statement about not needing solar because of that history does give inference it will continue. Many with a 30' trailer would also be carrying a generator also, if they go off grid.

If the only time they need power would be similar to using an Onan, as in stopping to cook lunch, etc, they likely would be able to even get by with the van alternator running things instead of an Onan.

It sounds like they are doing their research well, so I am sure they will make a sound choice once they get all the information they need.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by booster

If you are nearly always having shore power available, what would your anticipated needs for the lithium, big inverter, engine generator be? It is a lot of complexity and cost, if you don't really need it.

That's kind of what I'm thinking - maybe I could just go with the underhood generator to replace the Onan and leave everything else the same - unless that is not feasible or if the underhood generator itself is problematic.

We carry a Honda 12000 with our travel trailer and about the only time we use it is when stopping overnight en route at spots such as Flying J.

Not sure if there have been issues with the underhood generator. If so I'd likely just stick with Onan.

Of course if you buy off the lot, or used, I guess you get what you get!

Thanks ....... Brian.

[booster]

I don't think the underhood generators are more trouble prone than the Onans are, probably less over time.

It sounds like a very normal system of AGM batteries, shore charger with 2000 watt or so inverter, plus the engine generator would do fine, save money, and likely be much less trouble over time.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The OP indicates that they don't generally camp without electrical services, but given their use of a 30ft trailer and 3/4T truck, couldn't this be more a matter of necessity than choice?

That is very true!


We do like state/federal/provincial parks but often cannot use them at present.

We would certainly miss all the space and ability to carry all our toys' power tools, air compressor, etc etc if we give up our truck and trailer, but I do believe we would really like the ability to camp almost anywhere - and that could well mean often with limited or no hookups!

I am getting a bit fed up with trying to shoe horn our rig into tight spots

That - plus the fact that my wife will never drive our rig, although she does drive the truck, would make me less concerned about what happens if I get sick when we are 2000 miles from home!

I see other advantages too! Just have to earn to live with less space - luckily we are not large people - and getting smaller each year it seems, as we are well into our seventies!

I think a class B would help us extend our RV'ing years! (We did start out with a VW Westphalia so many years ago!)

Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Your point questioning the weight of negative posts regarding a product is well taken. Posters with negative experiences are more likely to express their dissatisfaction than posters with positive experience. Another factor is the proverbial: long after the song has ended, the melody lingers on. Even years after a manufacturer has resolved a problem, people continue to report it as if it happened yesterday.

With respect to Roadtrek:

The choice of Voltstart, generators, and batteries can all be made independently, although I noticed at the Pomona RV show, every coach they exhibited employed an underhood generator rather than the Onan. In any event you can opt to not get Voltstart and opt for AGM coach batteries rather than lithiums. Having said that, RT is starting to employ packages rather than discrete options in their Sprinter production so it may be more difficult to pick and choose precisely the options you want.

If you opt for lithium batteries, they will be located where the Onan is typically put but depending on the ah level you choose and/or the platform you choose they may also be located elsewhere. On our210PC, three are installed where the Onan normally would be put and one is up front adjacent to the macerator pump.

With respect to the reliability of the two alternatives, IMO, the underhood generator + inverter/converter is a more reliable way to generate 120VAC than the Onan which is probably more affected by underuse than overuse. The underhood generator, (aka GU) is much quieter and is more likely to be tolerated in campgrounds than the Onan.

With regard to RT electrical issues. The Etrek technology was rushed to market in 2015 and did have significant issues. Most of them have been resolved in current production but other than a Voltmeter, there is still no metering of the system to let the user know charge and discharge rates, State of Charge and remaining charge available. Additionally, there are four discrete battery management systems, each of which consumes power internally, so when off grid, some attention has to be paid to shutting down batteries not required for immediate use. And if lithium batteries are chosen, IMO, the solar option is a useful addition.

Voltstart has been a problem for some users. If you are not dealing with pets, it's certainly arguable that it's a $1800 option worth avoiding. Even with pets, I'm not convinced it should be employed for their protection. I'd be more inclined to let the engine run and employ Dash AC and even Roof AC while I was away from the coach for an hour or so.

I haven't heard of any issues regarding an underhood generator on the Sprinters but they are slung pretty low on the Promasters and probably need better protection than that provided at the factory. It's tricky because you want to prevent contact or spray from damaging the GU but at the same time you need to avoid shutting off the ram air that helps to cool the alternator when supplying heavy loads.

One of the things you need to consider is the respective warranties provided by the different upfitters. They vary widely. Winnebago provides a one year warranty on their entire coach. Pleasureway offers a 5 year warranty on their coaches but it excepts appliances and the warranty is not transferable to a second owner. Roadtrek offers a six year unlimited mileage warranty for everything but AGM batteries.

But the cost of benefiting from these warranties is another matter entirely. There is no reimbursement for travel expenses to and from a repair facility or housing waiting for repairs all of which can end up costing a bundle. Consequently, your close proximity to the RT factory, IMO, is persuasive. For one thing, you eliminate most of the travel cost. But the big advantage is that the factory is probably pretty good at a fast diagnosis of a problem and most of all they have the repair parts right there to fix it. The Etrek system is only a couple of years old and the dealers are still a long way from having fully absorbed the expertise to address problems with this system.

Very helpful info - thank you! - Brian

[Ron J. Moore]

When I bought my '15 RT210, it was a move up from an '05 RT190. I could have opted to take all the latest and greatest models, in my opinion, too many things were coming to market - too fast! Remember in years past when Software Manufacturers were throwing stuff to the market - and letting the public find the errors....my thinking moved in this direction. I truly enjoy camping and traveling in a RT, so I felt it was an costly thing to do, especially when I seldom spend days without power, etc. I just ascribed to the old KISS Principle, I didn't like the location of the UHG, so I opted for the Onan Generator, and 4 AGM batteries. As I said, I can't travel too far, but without all the "latest & greatest" - I couldn't ask for more; but then that is my opinion - it wasn't a money saving thing, it was I felt that if something were to go wrong, would the Dealers have trained personnel that could resolve my problem without me leaving it for weeks on end. Ron

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by booster

That would be for the OP to answer, but the statement about not needing solar because of that history does give inference it will continue. Many with a 30' trailer would also be carrying a generator also, if they go off grid.

If the only time they need power would be similar to using an Onan, as in stopping to cook lunch, etc, they likely would be able to even get by with the van alternator running things instead of an Onan.

It sounds like they are doing their research well, so I am sure they will make a sound choice once they get all the information they need.

What you say has certainly described the way we use our Airstream / truck combo. We do carry a Honda gennie but rarely use it.

I am thinking though that with the added flexibilty of a class B our camping habits could morph!

We do enjoy commercial campgrounds but also do like state/federal/provincial parks - but even there it is mostly sewer hookups that we don't have. We do get water and electric.

Possible that with the B though, we may move more in the direction of more primitive locations, and even though the $$ spent could be not well spent, I would like to ensure when buying that we cover off the possibility at least to some extent and have options!

Thanks ---- Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

When I bought my '15 RT210, it was a move up from an '05 RT190. I could have opted to take all the latest and greatest models, in my opinion, too many things were coming to market - too fast! Remember in years past when Software Manufacturers were throwing stuff to the market - and letting the public find the errors....my thinking moved in this direction. I truly enjoy camping and traveling in a RT, so I felt it was an costly thing to do, especially when I seldom spend days without power, etc. I just ascribed to the old KISS Principle, I didn't like the location of the UHG, so I opted for the Onan Generator, and 4 AGM batteries. As I said, I can't travel too far, but without all the "latest & greatest" - I couldn't ask for more; but then that is my opinion - it wasn't a money saving thing, it was I felt that if something were to go wrong, would the Dealers have trained personnel that could resolve my problem without me leaving it for weeks on end. Ron

Hi Ron,

Good points and I had been sort of wondering if I would be wise to go the same way.

Of course to some degree unless one wants to accept long lead times, it might be necessary to accept what is on the lot - and I suspect more and more it may not be a conventional generator.

I guess my timing might be bad with all this fancy stuff just recently coming available - and maybe not yet with all the bugs ironed out!

At least I suppose that if I do wind up with a Roadtrek, it may prove convenient that we live so close to the factory in Kitchener. Hymer in Cambridge is even closer!

Meanwhile I anticipate we will be making at least one more "snowbird" trip with our Airstream!

Brian

PS - do you use a large inverter with the four AGMs so as
not to need to fire up the gennie if quite hours are in effect?

[Ron J. Moore]

Brian, I have not changed out the Inverter, but then like I said, we don't put the system to a heavy use any longer. When I selected this particular 210, it had the 4 AGM's instead of the 2. I don't know if you seen this when reading thru the other topics (classbwarned.com) - this sort of solidified my line of thinking. Ron

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

...................
We do like state/federal/provincial parks but often cannot use them at present.

We would certainly miss all the space and ability to carry all our toys' power tools, air compressor, etc etc if we give up our truck and trailer, but I do believe we would really like the ability to camp almost anywhere - and that could well mean often with limited or no hookups!

I am getting a bit fed up with trying to shoe horn our rig into tight spots

That - plus the fact that my wife will never drive our rig, although she does drive the truck, would make me less concerned about what happens if I get sick when we are 2000 miles from home!

I see other advantages too! Just have to earn to live with less space - luckily we are not large people - and getting smaller each year it seems, as we are well into our seventies!

I think a class B would help us extend our RV'ing years! (We did start out with a VW Westphalia so many years ago!)

Brian.

In 2013, being in retirement for a few years we realized that our Bigfoot trailer with Ford F350 package wasn’t used enough to justified keeping it. We took it for a long trip around the West US to make a decision, soon after it was sold.

We make a decision to come back to the beginning of our camping experience with 77 and 85 Westfalias. We had a remaining question if our great experiences with Westfalias were due to Westfalias or our young age, now we know – Westfalias.

Unfortunately, the search wasn’t very successful, the closest one with many windows was Safari Condo but purchase from West Coast was difficult. So, we bought the passenger Sprinter van and convert it to the camper for 2 built a la Westfalia lay out, all windows, we love it.

As we were looking for a camper van we found this B-class market segment pricewise insane especially as compared to EU. Another option for us was a quality trailer, but small, like Airstream Bambi or Basecamp and SUV for about $100K with the same or better accommodation, this was our price and quality reference point. Some of the camper van had a very questionable fit and finish, including Airstream.

We spent a chunk of time every year in EU and we drool, and drool. I was hopeful that the great camper manufacturing company in EU, Hymer will refresh our B-class market in NA, then I saw Sunlight V1 in the Camping World, fit and finish was absolutely appalling, I have never seen anything like it, perhaps Yugo was close.

Best of luck in searching for a camper van, and question the trendy shtuff.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

Brian, I have not changed out the Inverter, but then like I said, we don't put the system to a heavy use any longer. When I selected this particular 210, it had the 4 AGM's instead of the 2. I don't know if you seen this when reading thru the other topics (classbwarned.com) - this sort of solidified my line of thinking. Ron

Ron,

Many thanks for the classbwarned link, I had not come across it. Briefly checked it out this am and will return to go trough it n more detail.

I will say I am coming around to your way of thinking on this subject.

We often have had minor electrical issues with our Airstream - largely I think due to the fact that it doesn't get much use and is stored outdoors in a harsh environment.

I'm reasonably handy with mechanical and electrical stuff (retired mech. eng. and
hobbiest with Brit sports cars and bikes.) and luckily so far have always been able these issues myself.

More often than not the problems I have found have been nothing more than corroded connectors or bad grounds.

However, being old school, I would hesitate to touch the electronics in a modern car or truck and it seems the RT is going the same way.

Could be very frustrating to have problems on the road that I would have little hope of doing anything myself to resolve.

Thx ........... Brian

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

In 2013, being in retirement for a few years we realized that our Bigfoot trailer with Ford F350 package wasn’t used enough to justified keeping it. We took it for a long trip around the West US to make a decision, soon after it was sold.

We make a decision to come back to the beginning of our camping experience with 77 and 85 Westfalias. We had a remaining question if our great experiences with Westfalias were due to Westfalias or our young age, now we know – Westfalias.

Unfortunately, the search wasn’t very successful, the closest one with many windows was Safari Condo but purchase from West Coast was difficult. So, we bought the passenger Sprinter van and convert it to the camper for 2 built a la Westfalia lay out, all windows, we love it.

As we were looking for a camper van we found this B-class market segment pricewise insane especially as compared to EU. Another option for us was a quality trailer, but small, like Airstream Bambi or Basecamp and SUV for about $100K with the same or better accommodation, this was our price and quality reference point. Some of the camper van had a very questionable fit and finish, including Airstream.

We spent a chunk of time every year in EU and we drool, and drool. I was hopeful that the great camper manufacturing company in EU, Hymer will refresh our B-class market in NA, then I saw Sunlight V1 in the Camping World, fit and finish was absolutely appalling, I have never seen anything like it, perhaps Yugo was close.

Best of luck in searching for a camper van, and question the trendy shtuff.

Thanks George,

Funny how my wife and I and two kids had a great time in our VW Westphalia, and now my wife expresses concerns about coping with anything less than a 31 foot airstream!

She is coming around to the idea I think though, as I feel that unless we make a change of this sort before too long, the alternative will be getting out of RV'ing!

We are both originally from the UK and were back last Fall for a family wedding.
Hadn't been back for quite a few years, and I was amazed how many small van campers and caravans (trailers!) we saw on the roads. Some pretty interesting and innovative designs.

I did see the youtube videos the fellow posted about the Camping World Hymer - what a mess! One can only hope this was a preproduction model.

I think the same design is marketed here as the Corado Banff or similar name.

There is a dealer nearby and I will take a look. They also carry the
Hymer Aktiv 2 which sounds as though it might work for us.

From what I had read Hymer is a well established major European manufacturer
and it is hard to believe they would put their name to something like the one sold by Camping World - especially with the reputation usually attributed to German products

Cheers ....... Brian M.

[BBQ]

.

Did you know, there is an AGM battery inside the Tesla.

Kid you not.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Did you know, there is an AGM battery inside the Tesla.

Kid you not.

As fas as I know almost all EVs and Hybrids have a small 12V lead acid battery to handle the 12V lighting and other household loads. They are typically charged by a DC-DC converter off the main battery.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[MsNomer]

We also have two Westfalia Vanagons in our past, neither of which was reliable. I call my PM self-build the "Vanagon that runs." As long as one of us can drive, we can go where there are no motel rooms.