Roadtrek electrical upgrades/installs - where would you go?

[Mike]

Hi everyone,
I have been considering an upgrade to my converter/charger in my '02 190P for a while now. I want to
replace or upgrade the original charger to a 3 stage, and add an inverter function to also feed the existing
AC receptacles that are "live" when plugged into shore power or when I run the Onan. I also figure if I'm going to
do all that, maybe it's time to consider/examine a solar powered coach battery maintenance system as well.

I have 2 problems (some would say, that's not entirely accurate ).
The first one is I don't feel comfortable DIYing something like this, and even if I did, I don't have anywhere
warm/dry/free to do it. I could probably wait a few months, or try to find a rental shop that can handle
my van, but then time becomes $$$, if I take my time, it'll cost more $$$. I can be as careful as the next guy
when it comes to electrical safety, and I think I have enough common sense not to fry myself, but I'm not as
certain about the van, and a mistake could be very costly.
My second problem is that I don't seem to be getting anywhere locally here in Ontario, looking for a reliable shop
to do this type of work. There are plenty of places that sell the hardware, but no one with the knowledge
about the hardware, installs it, and no one who does installs seems to have sufficient knowledge of the hardware
to make me feel like they know what they're talking about when they start recommending hardware.
I've emailed and actually visited one or two places to try to get an idea of what skill level they have, but so far no
one has a turn key solution that isn't going to cost more than what the van is worth. I'll spend a bit more to
get good workmanship, but at some point cost overrules everything else.

I think I could reasonably live with a 1000-2000W modified sine wave inverter, unless there was a fabulous deal
on a pure sine wave model. A 30A charge circuit is probably sufficient, as we move around a fair bit, and it would
probably be more than sufficient to replenish the batteries. Everything else, I have no particular brand preferences
or loyalties beyond price/performance. I'd like to spend around $2000 all in. I was looking into the Xantrex
Freedom HF 1800W inverter/charger model, as I believe it would handle my power requirements, and I could
probably get one for around $600 in the USA. The rest of the money would be for the labor and any additional
parts and possibly a small solar top up system, one decent 100W 4-5A roof panel and charge controller? I don't know
what they cost, or whether the numbers I'm throwing out are reasonable for this sort of project. If it came down
to cost as to which part of the project I'd want to do first, it would be to get the charger/inverter first, and then
maybe add the solar top up system at a later date, unless there were significant advantages to doing it all at once.

So, if you were going to get some custom electrical work done like what I've described, and you aren't a DIY
wizard, where would you go for RV related electrical knowledge and reliable installation?
Assume I'm able to travel to the place you might recommend, within a few months, or later this year.
I've seen AM Solar in OR mentioned on here, as well as Outside Supply in LA. I've emailed them with my
upgrade/custom work questions. A stop/side trip on our next tour to get an estimate done on the RV is
never out of the question.
Maybe someone has had good luck or experience with their local Camping World, or some other nearby big box RV place?
Maybe your local Roadtrek dealership or authorized Roadtrek service center guys seem to know what they're
doing? Or, you know a guy who does this in his spare time, and really knows this stuff? To any of the dealers on here,
do you have any thoughts on my upgrade questions? I'm not that far from Ohio, or Pennsylvania. We love cross border shopping.

Opinions, ideas, suggestions, even DIY or partial DIY suggestions are all welcome.

[Davydd]

When I just bought my new B I studied the question of adding Great West Van's 1750W inverter option with a second battery. After I thought about it all I was gaining it appears in our routine was the ability to run the built-in electric coffee pot without need of shore power or running the generator. Lights all run on 12V. The TV had its own 750W dedicated inverter to run on 12V. The three-way refrigerator would drain two batteries too fast and was more efficient on propane anyway. Nix the idea of running the air-conditioner. We don't use the microwave all that much and is a convenience luxury. I did have the second battery installed. Bottom line is we thought the added cost was pretty steep for a morning cup of coffee and there are many other options for brewing coffee.

The inverter for the TV has a second outlet so I could use it I think for using my laptop computer in a pinch. I only use the laptop as a mother port for syncing on occasion since we now use our two iPads a lot more with 10 hour battery reserve and 12V charging capability.

With the second battery and 210 amp hours we probably will stop carrying our Coleman rechargeable lamp unless we decide it is still beneficial for having at a picnic table or our screen tent. In our old B we had one 85 amp hour battery and now have the luxury of 210. The one battery always got us through 2 dry days but I was always nervous and overly frugal in using lights.

Solar is an option I am interested in especially if we spend more time in the Southwest. Here in Minnesota and the north woods it would not have much utility nor would it if I continued going back to the Northern California redwoods and Sierra Nevada Mountains, Glacier, Rainier, Yellowstone, Black Hills, etc. The more coniferous the better I like it.

An inverter would probably make more sense in a larger motorhome or trailer and I think would need a bank of more than two batteries to fully benefit.

But if you must, can a Roadtrek dealer do the work? Surely I would think even if they did not do it in their prep shop they must have a source for doing such modifications. Does Roadtrek offer an inverter option? If so, I would think they would have a design and diagram for you to follow if you DIY.

[visionquest]

Hey Mike, You know, I did this last spring and it wasn't bad at all. I know you could handle doing the inverter/charger install and pulling the old converter is really pretty easy. I would be happy to walk ya through it. As far as that goes, you could probably do it here. (Port Angeles Wa) I am going to be doing my solar install this summer which is going to be a bit beyond the normal setup but have done more standard ones in the past as well. I could help you with that too if you wanted. If you really still want to have a shop do it, Erik's RV in Sequim Washington is one of the best around. They have their other location in Quartzsite. Anything I don't feel like working on, I trust them to handle and they always do an excellent job. I wrote a blog post on the inverter install/converter removal a while back. You can find it by going to the "roadtrek modifications" link at the top of my blog under the banner. I think I mentioned it here once too in the mod section.

At any rate, let me know if you think you might want to go that route.

-Mike
97 Roadtrek 170P "Taj Ma Trek"
http://WWW.VanTramps.Com

[Davydd]

Mike, the Visionquest one, what was your motivation for adding your inverter? I had asked this question over on RV.net and came away with the conclusion of the expensive cup of coffee for my built-in coffee maker after many comments were made. What else am I missing and what did I overlook?

[visionquest]

Hi David, Heidi and I actually use a lot more power than most people in Bs. I remember discussing this with a few folks up at the Grand Marais Bsocial. We often use our microwave and a 1850 Watt Convection/Toaster oven. I like being able to run all my power tools from it as well as a shiatsu massage chair that we keep with us. On the way back from the bsocial to my Mom's place, we had to run the fridge from it to save all the food (the LP valve was broken and the 12volt element couldn't keep it cool enough). Of course it supplies 110 to all our chargers and smaller gadgets as well. Electric blanket on occasion, Crockpot when driving long distances (kept in the sink) etc. It handles all of these things very well, doesn't require fuel or exercise and really, we don't have space for a generator. We don't use AC ever either so it isn't really needed at all.

The solar is going to really improve our boondocking of course, but the inverter has really improved our Trekking experience so far!

Hope that helps!

-Mike & Heidi
97 Roadtrek 170P "Taj Ma Trek"
http://WWW.VanTramps.Com

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Mike, the Visionquest one, what was your motivation for adding your inverter? I had asked this question over on RV.net and came away with the conclusion of the expensive cup of coffee for my built-in coffee maker after many comments were made. What else am I missing and what did I overlook?

That is another consideration for me too, and partially why I've taken my time thinking this one
over since before Christmas. The "expensive cup of coffee" result of adding all of the hardware.
I really will stop at the point where price becomes a big enough issue, thus my preference
for the charger first, and everything else afterward as price would permit. If the inverter and any
solar became outrageously priced, I'd stop at the charger, and go no further. On the other hand, I'd
hate to do something half-assed for the sake of a few hundred dollars. I may never buy another B
so I'd like to spend on this one, to make it as simple functionally as possible, while it belongs to me.
I've also further convinced myself to try it, by assuming that when installed and working, I might
find there are many other uses for 1000W continuous power from (quiet) batteries alone, but until
I "go for it" I won't know for sure. It would appear that Mike and Heidi have found more than a few
uses for the extra juice. (thanks for the tip on Erik's in Quartzsite, we may be down that way sooner
than later-got a link to their website, by chance?)
I also have the 12V capability to run almost everything I've got or added since buying our van,
including TV and satellite and anything else with relatively low power consumption. I only buy
stuff that has a low or energy star rating for consumption.

I've read both your replies, and it's all good food for thought. Thank you, both.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Solar is an option I am interested in especially if we spend more time in the Southwest. Here in Minnesota and the north woods it would not have much utility nor would it if I continued going back to the Northern California redwoods and Sierra Nevada Mountains, Glacier, Rainier, Yellowstone, Black Hills, etc. The more coniferous the better I like it.

I think 1 panel with maybe 100W and around 5A might be the top up that will keep your coach batteries charged and
happy, while you wander around wherever you happen to be. I also have done some reading on the panels and the newer ones can be fairly effective even on overcast days or in less than direct exposure situations, although direct sustained sunlight provides the best bang for the buck.
Rainier is awesome, btw. I'd visit it again in a heartbeat. Wish it hadn't been so overcast in WA last Fall, or we might have gone for a look at Mount St. Helens. The Mount St. Helens center was closed, and our weather forecast there was overcast all day and beyond, so we decided another time, and headed south to Salem, OR.

Originally Posted by Davydd

An inverter would probably make more sense in a larger motorhome or trailer and I think would need a bank of more than two batteries to fully benefit.

I think we could do a lot more dry camping, which is our preference, and the inverter would simplify it by adding a quiet AC power option when you just can't find a place to plug in.
We like the NatParkServices camping places and they usually don't have hookups. Dry camping is also less expensive, and
we like frugal.

Originally Posted by Davydd

But if you must, can a Roadtrek dealer do the work? Surely I would think even if they did not do it in their prep shop they must have a source for doing such modifications. Does Roadtrek offer an inverter option? If so, I would think they would have a design and diagram for you to follow if you DIY.

I've emailed and visited a couple of Roadtrek servicers and haven't been able to decide
whether or not to let them have a go at it. After each estimate and walk through, my gut says I probably should
get a few more opinions/estimates, so I thought I'd ask on here and see what you and others have to say.
I have access to schematics and diagrams, but I'm no Edison. Probably more like Edsel.
It almost always works for me. The people on this forum have great ideas and opinions on just about everything
I could ever come up with as a project or question. Someone always surprises me.
btw, Great West Van? Sounds very nice. I might have been interested in your used PW.

[Davydd]

My old Pleasure-Way Plateau is available last I checked.

http://www.lakeregionrvs.com/rv.aspx?stock=G11-003-01

[Mike]

Great pic in the parking area at Mount Rushmore. We were there last September. Another "will visit again" place
for us. We also did the Badlands for a few hours, very desolate but beautiful, and Sturgis, just to see the old town's
main drag. I don't own, nor do I plan to buy a Harley any time soon, but I guess I sort of understand the attraction
of the place, for bikers.

[visionquest]

No problem Mike, Eriks website is http://www.eriksrv.com The page will say Sequim, Washington but I think there is also a link to the Quartzsite store there too. No shortage of places to get work done in Quartzsite if you go that way. There are several dedicated solar installation places that I am sure would be well equipped to do extra batteries and inverter charger work too.

Just food for thought. I bought that Xantrex Prosine 2.5 inverter charger (2500 Watt Pure-sine) for $350 off a local Craigslist. Granted that isn't a typical deal and I tested to my satisfaction before I bought it, but you may find a great deal out there if you check around. I spent a few hundred more to upgrade to the better monitor panel after which was a great move too. It has worked flawlessly since I installed it.

-Mike
97 Roadtrek 170P "Taj Ma Trek"
http://WWW.VanTramps.Com

[Davydd]

I believe that is http://www.ericsrv.com with a "c" not a "k".

[Mike]

Thank you gentlemen.

[visionquest]

OOOPs! Yeah it's a C not a K... I got it mixed up with one of our friends who always has to remind me his name is with a K

-Mike
97 Roadtrek 170P "Taj Ma Trek"
http://WWW.VanTramps.Com

[Mike]

No problemo. I'd have figured it out (eventually )
Got an answer back from a place in Springfield, OR that specializes in solar with some
interesting numbers and suggested some scalable hardware in both pure and modified
sine wave. They sounded quite confident about their choices. Good answers, I thought.

[Davydd]

I went digging for easy to understand RV electrical information after Mike described how confusing it was in reading another forum. I re-found this old gem.

The 12V Side of Life

It explains batteries, selection, maintenance, set up, inverters, converters and solar for RVs in plain simple language.

[Mike]

I've read it. Sadly, it's not enough of a "cookbook" to help me achieve my goal.
It is a great "basics of RV electricity" and in plain English.
I need a step by step project plan and have no idea where to find one.
In his Part 2 of the "12V side of life", he suggests,
"If you don't have the necessary skills, get a qualified electrician to do the wiring"
That's what this thread is all about.
It is a great read though, isn't it? Good info and fairly understandable, even for someone
with no engineering background. I keep copies of both parts on my laptop for reference.