Roadtrek Ecotrek and Voltstart

[gerrym51]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlpWCI8Bng

voltstart video

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You can charge a day's worth of battery usage in a campground in under 20 minutes typically with well over 200 amp input.

We could, but davydd couldn't

At 240 amps you would get 80ah of power back into the batteries which would cover our use for about 1.5+ days.

davydd uses 200-300ah per day from what we have heard, so he has to run at least an hour at driving speed to get back one day of use.

[Davydd]

Actually a typical boondocking stay overnight was down around 108ah if we did not cooking. That would be something like a Walmart stop. In a campground with an earlier stop and some cooking it is typically about 174 ah. I could reduce that further if I switched off my wifi routers and cell phone boosters or turned off the inverter. With the inverter off the microwave, induction cooktop, coffeemaker and 120vac electric outlets become disabled. That is pretty much what most everyone puts up with and I could cut out another 32 ah when sleeping with the inverter off. So, yes, if I chose I could stop and recharge in 20 minutes with lithium ion batteries. However, as I said in the past I enjoy the total electrical transparency the vast majority of Class B owners are not capable of. And no matter what I do when charging at 220-240 amps off the second alternator I am always restoring under an hour. That's calculations without factoring in 420 watts of solar panels.

So I can, but you can't do what I do.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

So I can, but you can't do what I do.

But neither can you on the power you can get in the 20 minutes you stated as giving a days use.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

voltstart video

Interestingly, this was one response to that video and JH's retort:

"Andrew Covington Just wish we could get the Ecotrek and Voltstart working together. Seems several are still having issues and can't get them working properly.


Jim Hammill Andrew you decided not to buy one and we respect that. But maybe it's not appropriate for you not owning one to offer commentary. With every new product there are specific issues that happen. Hundreds of units are out that work fine. I respect you were not happy with yours and chose not to buy.


Andrew Covington Thanks Jim I was just reporting about not just mine, which after 8 weeks couldn't work other wise I would buy it, and it's still at Transwest in KC and I have still told them if it ever worked I'd buy it. I was referring to others I'm reading about that are also currently not working, after they did take delivery and yet still at dealers for weeks. I can list names but don't think that would be appropriate either."

RT was on my short list, if I buy new, but every time I read one of these "exchanges", it just tells me to look for alternatives. No "we hear you and we are working on it" , just "you did not buy one, so your input is worthless"

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BobB

Interestingly, this was one response to that video and JH's retort:

"Andrew Covington Just wish we could get the Ecotrek and Voltstart working together. Seems several are still having issues and can't get them working properly.


Jim Hammill Andrew you decided not to buy one and we respect that. But maybe it's not appropriate for you not owning one to offer commentary. With every new product there are specific issues that happen. Hundreds of units are out that work fine. I respect you were not happy with yours and chose not to buy.


Andrew Covington Thanks Jim I was just reporting about not just mine, which after 8 weeks couldn't work other wise I would buy it, and it's still at Transwest in KC and I have still told them if it ever worked I'd buy it. I was referring to others I'm reading about that are also currently not working, after they did take delivery and yet still at dealers for weeks. I can list names but don't think that would be appropriate either."

RT was on my short list, if I buy new, but every time I read one of these "exchanges", it just tells me to look for alternatives. No "we hear you and we are working on it" , just "you did not buy one, so your input is worthless"

andrew's was one of the first ones-the first 5 we know about had issues. since then voltstart and ecotrek seem to be working on ones built after

[gregmchugh]

That sort of begs the question of why they don't take the initiative to fix Andrew's van and get themselves a new customer? Seems like a no brainer to me. Why write off the relationship with comments like that?

[mikes47]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Unless you think that Roadtrek will never get the new stuff working then I suggest they end up between the two with the main question being can they sell enough of them and have satisfied customers at their current prices with their current quality level (after the current issues are resolved) or do they need to make changes to stay competitive in between Winnebago and Advanced RV? Not that many people are interested in doing the custom Advanced RV thing so there is room in the market for Roadtrek between the two if they can capitalize on it. Time will tell...

I don't think ARV actually even WANTS to be considered in the same league with Winnebago and RoadTrek. Mike N has said many times that his goal is to deliver about 50 ARV units per year. That volume would not be acceptable to either WBGO or RT.

[wincrasher]

LOL. "Hundreds of units" Hahahahahaha......

[BobB]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

LOL. "Hundreds of units" Hahahahahaha......

Yes, that "hundreds" caught my eye, too. We're talking Eco-Treks and Voltstart here. How many do you think have been sold since they started being offered?

I do see many on the FB page singing their praises and I am happy for them. But the comment also implies that the KC dealer has a problematic RT on his hands and cannot get it to work (if they could, Covington says he would buy it). So they are leaving not only a potential customer in the dust, but the dealer as well.

[wincrasher]

I can't imagine dealers who've been unable to fix, or just going thru the hassle to fix, would re-order units for inventory with this tech. I would imagine most would return to ordering the tried and true.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by BobB

Yes, that "hundreds" caught my eye, too. We're talking Eco-Treks and Voltstart here. How many do you think have been sold since they started being offered?

I do see many on the FB page singing their praises and I am happy for them. But the comment also implies that the KC dealer has a problematic RT on his hands and cannot get it to work (if they could, Covington says he would buy it). So they are leaving not only a potential customer in the dust, but the dealer as well.

Bear in mind that negative posts get deleted pretty quickly. Most folks know better and don't even try to post anything critical.

[markopolo]

On this forum, we've wondered how and if tandem AGM & Lifepo4 batteries would work.

This post on Roadtreking caught my attention: https://www.facebook.com/groups/road...4602370032080/

Post can be deleted quickly over there so I'll quote part of the first post:

I have a couple of questions about Roadtrek's Lithium Ion battery incentive offer. We purchased our 2016 210P in August which included that offer. It has a 200W solar panel, 4 AGM batteries, under hood generator and 3000W inverter. We were told the response to the incentive was overwhelming and we would have to wait for the battery. (I received the same response when I talked directly with Roadtrek.) Almost four months later and we are still waiting. Then, yesterday, my husband talked with the dealer and was told that Roadtrek is offering a $1500 refund if we forego the battery, and that people are having trouble with the batteries, getting it to function.

and this comment - https://www.facebook.com/groups/road...34624520029865 - would sum up a lot purchasers feelings I think:

We were sold a bill of goods with all the reasons why we needed those batteries and how it would improve the camping experience. Being able to be off the grid for 5-7 days. We made our decision based on those batteries to buy the 2015. I don't want the $1500. I want what was promised to us and feel that RT should deliver on that promise no matter what. They need to figure it out in my opinion or take the RT back so we can ultimately get what we want with lithium batteries. I personally don't think throwing money at us is the right response.

My opinion: RT needs to make every effort to deliver what they promised no ifs ands or buts about it. The $1500 refund is way too low as the loss is much more than the net value of a battery module in my opinion.

From the posts we don't really know if tandem works or not or if there are delays or whatever. I'm not speculating on that.

[wincrasher]

Especially considering they published it as a $2500 value. If you were honestly wanting to get people to forgo the promise, you'd offer the "market value", or more, considering the resulting disappointment. Just another bonehead move on a long list this year, IMNSHO.

[gregmchugh]

I agree that a $1500 buy off seems pretty crazy instead of the $2500 battery but some people are saying they will take it so I guess it might not be as crazy as it seems.

My WAG at how the mixed battery configuration works is that they just install the Ecotrek 200 in parallel with the standard AGM batteries. I think the Ecotrek charge controller controls the lithium charge voltage and it can work over a range of external charge voltages including the standard AGM charge profile. I think they just leave the various battery charge systems in the van as they are configured for AGM. Again, this is just my WAG based in the fact that they were planning on providing the option of adding the free Ecotrek in just about any current van that had AGM. If this setup is an impossibility for some reason, I am sure someone will let me know very quickly that I am crazy...

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I agree that a $1500 buy off seems pretty crazy instead of the $2500 battery but some people are saying they will take it so I guess it might not be as crazy as it seems.

My WAG at how the mixed battery configuration works is that they just install the Ecotrek 200 in parallel with the standard AGM batteries. I think the Ecotrek charge controller controls the lithium charge voltage and it can work over a range of external charge voltages including the standard AGM charge profile. I think they just leave the various battery charge systems in the van as they are configured for AGM. Again, this is just my WAG based in the fact that they were planning on providing the option of adding the free Ecotrek in just about any current van that had AGM. If this setup is an impossibility for some reason, I am sure someone will let me know very quickly that I am crazy...

Nope, don't think you are crazy, me maybe, not you!

Roadtrek is getting famous for using existing stuff for other purposes, usually with pretty bad results, so I wouldn't be surprised that they would just parallel up the lithiums and say good to go. It probably would work, kind of, for a while, which seems to be the standard to meet with them these days.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

Nope, don't think you are crazy, me maybe, not you!

Roadtrek is getting famous for using existing stuff for other purposes, usually with pretty bad results, so I wouldn't be surprised that they would just parallel up the lithiums and say good to go. It probably would work, kind of, for a while, which seems to be the standard to meet with them these days.

What would be the problems encountered if the Ecotrek battery management did all the right things with the cells? Or is it impossible to design it the way I suggested and have the lithium cells handled properly? Or are you assuming Roadtrek simply would not get it done right?

[markopolo]

ptourin has been sharing lifepo4 info here:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...html#post35425

Lithiums seem to rest at around 13.2V.
AGM's rest at around 12.8V.
The lithium would keep the AGM at 13.2V for as long as it could is my guess.

Then you could have the lithium bank at say 50% SOC and needing a charging voltage (14.6V seems typical) to recharge it while the AGM's are already fully charged.

It would be interesting to see the interactions on a test bench.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

What would be the problems encountered if the Ecotrek battery management did all the right things with the cells? Or is it impossible to design it the way I suggested and have the lithium cells handled properly? Or are you assuming Roadtrek simply would not get it done right?

I would worry less about the lithium than the AGM batteries, but both could be issues. We don't know if Roadtrek shuts off charging of lithium packages, so we don't know here either. AGM and lithium have hugely different acceptance and discharge rates, so you would have to assume the lithium would do most of the discharge, and take most of the charge. What happens to the AGM batteries? Are they left partially charged, depending on the how long the charger stays on absorption? We know you can't mix AGM and wet cells, or even different sizes of the same type, so it is highly suspect that one charger could charge both types adequately. On the original etreks, it appears they just put two of the PD chargers on for the two voltages and assumed everything would be fine. They also assumed that jumper wires between battery pairs would make everything match at charge and discharge. There is a lot of history or miscalculation, IMO. Bottom line is that I can't imagine how they could just parallel up a lithium set and have it work well.

Do I assume that they would not get it right? I wouldn't say that catagorically, but if you look at how many of these new electrical systems have worked well, compared to those who haven't, the odds would say they may well have a problem with this one. The fact that they don't want folks to have them would also not give great confidence.

Offering less that what you told folks the value was (when you were trying to entice them) is also pretty insulting to the customers.

[gerrym51]

campskunk says there is a shortage of lithium 3.2 volt modules