Propane free... Onan free?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

As mentioned in another thread, we put a muffler (ahem, exhaust resonator) on our Onan and it cut the sound by about half. Cost of resonator and installation, including welding, was under $100.

Half is still loud to my ears in a wilderness wonderland, but more importantly, many campgrounds still have restrictions on generator use in either when you can run them or just not at all. The more desirable campgrounds, IMO, have the most restrictions. hbn7hj said it best, truck stops where everyone else is adding to the cacophony of sounds is the best area to run a generator.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

...
Traveling cross country in the summer (not by choice but it happens) is the only time I need A/C with the Onan. ...

For those of us who live in the deep south, this is a necessary evil. We are forced to traverse the south in its entirety in order to reach cooler destinations.

What I find is that the overnight temps usually become bearable BUT the van is not even briefly habitable as long as the sun is still up. And during high summer, the sun won't set until 8:30 pm or maybe later. So I might pull off the road for the day at 7:30 pm and then run the Onan and a/c combo for one hour, then shut it all down and turn on the Fantastic with the windows open. It's hot overnight, but I can live with it.

Given that we have a lithium system, I can also run the coach a/c off batteries for 1 to 2 hours each day (it requires an EasyStart to be installed). I do this during my driving lunch break, which allows me to take an all-important nap. I know that I'll be getting back on the road for numerous more hours of driving following the nap, so running the batteries down at noon is not a big deal.

Someone may be wondering "Why not just run the Onan at noon, too?" Try doing that in the parking lot of a Subway sandwich shop or similar eatery. It wouldn't go over well - that's the kind of behavior that gives long-distance van voyagers a bad name. And it's too difficult to find secluded areas while on the road for running the generator. Best to just switch to battery power.

[Davydd]

Jury is still out because Advanced RV is still testing the 48v Volta system in one of their vans and I haven't heard an update. But with the Volta system and a new air conditioner 20% more energy efficient and quieter than the Coleman Mach 8 they've been using, they may achieve a true off the grid Class B van with air conditioning as needed. They do more extensive insulation of their van than any other converter I know of. That helps. They've been responding with their efforts for some southwest customers and their direct experience.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

As mentioned in another thread, we put a muffler (ahem, exhaust resonator) on our Onan and it cut the sound by about half. Cost of resonator and installation, including welding, was under $100.

I installed a good muffler as well on our LPG powered Onan, it reduced the noise considerably, the built-in muffler is a joke. The generator was mounted on the RV trailer. In addition to the muffler I used a 3’ x 3’ of egg crate foam under the generator to cut down reflected sound from a hard surface, the reduction wasn’t big but noticeable.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Traveling cross country in the summer (not by choice but it happens) is the only time I need A/C with the Onan. Parking out of the way in a truck stop I get a good night's sleep with the Onan running, the A/C on, and the CO alarm on. Finding shore power late in the day sometimes works and if it does, I use it.

Not having all night A/C available is not acceptable. I don't use it much but I do use it. The expense of any other option is incredible, even if it worked.
Harry

If you have a gas engine you can also idle the van engine all night with the dash AC. It will use about the same amount of fuel.

[nebulight]

I have 400ah of lithium and a diesel webasto dual top for forced air and hot water in my custom built promaster. The diesel (I actually run kerosene to help with the health of the dual top as I can run diesel, kerosene or Jet Fuel A) is in an secondary tank so it's not the single source van I was after (I purchased the van already built), but it works great but is a little noisy when you first start and shut down but no where near as noisy as an onan and you can only really hear it on the inside as it's installed inside the van.

I've never really taken count of how much fuel it uses, but it SIPS fuel! Very efficient.

I used the lithium to cook on my induction plate and microwave. I also boil water quickly with a small electric kettle. If I were to build my own van, I would go the same route but buy a Diesel Promaster so I don't need a second fuel source. My fear with Propane is finding it in the middle of no where. I can carry extra kerosene in my storage area with no problems.

My van DOES NOT have AC, so if that's required, you're going to need more lithium that you can probably fit in a van. Yes it can be done, but I think you might be better off having the AC installed, but only use it when you are connected to shore power.

[hbn7hj]

Several have said it. The bottom line is if you need A/C, off grid, in a class B for any length of time you need a built in Onan 2.8kw generator. Those of you looking to purchase a class B need to keep that in mind.
Harry

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Several have said it. The bottom line is if you need A/C, off grid, in a class B for any length of time you need a built in Onan 2.8kw generator. Those of you looking to purchase a class B need to keep that in mind.
Harry

X2, or more

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Several have said it. The bottom line is if you need A/C, off grid, in a class B for any length of time you need a built in Onan 2.8kw generator. Those of you looking to purchase a class B need to keep that in mind.
Harry

I do have to remind you again that there is another way. An idling gas engine running the dash AC will use about the same amount of fuel as an Onan.

And it is quieter than an Onan.

I see no situation where you NEED an onan.

[booster]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

I do have to remind you again that there is another way. An idling gas engine running the dash AC will use about the same amount of fuel as an Onan.

And it is quieter than an Onan.

I see no situation where you NEED an onan.

I would agree on idling engine being quieter, etc, but if you have a diesel, you can't let it run indefinitely like a generator can. Personally, I would be thrilled about idling our gas van all night or day either, though.

[hbn7hj]

"I do have to remind you again that there is another way. An idling gas engine running the dash AC will use about the same amount of fuel as an Onan.

And it is quieter than an Onan.

I see no situation where you NEED an onan."

There is no way I'm idling the vehicle engine all night. Just a bias on my part, I guess.

Two problems come to mind: More chance for CO leaks as the pipe travels the length of the vehicle. On another forum a person had to replace the exhaust manifolds on his Ford V8 engine after long term idling. With no airflow they overheated and cracked or warped, not sure which.
Harry

[Scottbaldassari]

As several have noted, dependable A/C in a B without a genny is awkward at best; but depending on your needs, all other reasonable power needs can be easily met without a generator. I've traveled in a Promaster Travato without a genny for 2 years, almost exclusively boondocking, with no inconvenience or discomforts at all.

We do tend to stay in places where the climate is reasonable. I have no desire to camp in the desert in the middle of summer. In two years we have needed overnight air conditioning 3 times. Once while driveway camping, and the other two times we stayed at a campground and plugged in. Paying $25.00 for a campground once a year to avoid running an engine all night does not seem like much of an "inconvenience" to me, and is surely not worth the $10,000 to $20,000+ premium for a lithium system to attempt to do it.

Anything can be done with enough money, but that doesn't make it sensible.

[nebulight]

I agree with Scott. If you must run an AC, spend a few bucks to go to a campground with hookups.

Also, to talk about the idleing of the engine all night. Most states have laws about idle times so that may not work.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by nebulight

Also, to talk about the idleing of the engine all night. Most states have laws about idle times so that may not work.

I have only heard of idle laws for diesels, not gas. Does anyone know for sure?

[booster]

I think any idling counts a lot of places, gas or diesel. I know it does in no idling campgrounds. What I can tell you for certain is if there is a vehicle sitting running at night, especially if there is reason to believe someone may inside sleeping, you are highly likely to get a visit from the police for, at least, a "welfare check".

I don't know how a campground would handle that, though. It truly is a safety issue, IMO, and is also true with a generator.

Here is a link to the Minneapolis version of idling rule.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/gro...ert_285816.pdf

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by booster

I think any idling counts a lot of places, gas or diesel. I know it does in no idling campgrounds. What I can tell you for certain is if there is a vehicle sitting running at night, especially if there is reason to believe someone may inside sleeping, you are highly likely to get a visit from the police for, at least, a "welfare check".

I don't know how a campground would handle that, though. It truly is a safety issue, IMO, and is also true with a generator.

Here is a link to the Minneapolis version of idling rule.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/gro...ert_285816.pdf

Campgrounds normally let you plug in so it would not be an issue there... A plug in is the only reason I would be there (well maybe to dump).

We all need CO detectors. I have two just in case....

Thanks for the link. It does look like they don't like gas or diesel In Minneapolis.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by booster

Here is a link to the Minneapolis version of idling rule.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/gro...ert_285816.pdf

I looked further into the Minneapolis poster link. Here is a couple of exceptions that they allow. There are other exceptions also (like for dogs in the car).

"Idling is allowed if needed to operate defrosters, heaters or air conditioners to prevent a safety or health emergency."

"Vehicles may idle up to 15 minutes in a one hour period if the outside air temperature is less than zero degrees or higher than 90 degrees."

[booster]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

I looked further into the Minneapolis poster link. Here is a couple of exceptions that they allow. There are other exceptions also.

"Idling is allowed if needed to operate defrosters, heaters or air conditioners to prevent a safety or health emergency."

"Vehicles may idle up to 15 minutes in a one hour period if the outside air temperature is less than zero degrees or higher than 90 degrees."

Here in the frozen north, those do need to be in there.

The first is primarily for emergency vehicles, or if stuck in the snow waiting for a tow truck. Certainly not for everyday use by anyone, and the temp range is pretty extreme.

Second is because the folks around here want to warm up the vehicle before they get in, or cool it in the summer which is not as common but getting to be more. Cooling would be more south thing, I think.

[Phoebe3]

Today we had a lengthy power outage so I went in the van and fired up the Onan so I could make some coffee and run the heater.

Since I was there anyway, I figured I'd measure the DBs on our Onan now that we have the resonator on it. I also measured the van engine. Not sure how accurate this is, but I used a NIOSH app on my iPhone. I measured from the middle of the passenger side because the driver's side was against my neighbor's house. The tail pipe for the van engine exhausts on the passenger side and the Onan exhausts on the driver's side, so I would expect some difference in measurements if I had been able to measure both sides. (That is, on the driver's side, the Onan would be louder and the van quieter.)

10 Feet away = Onan 65 db; Van engine 62 db

50 feet away = Onan 51 db; Van engine 48 db

I understand that 3 db equals double the volume, but it didn't sound like the Onan was twice as loud as the van to my ears.

I should also note that I wasn't using professional equipment and there is a substantial chance of operator error involved.

[Bud]

Each 3 db increase requires twice the power (watts with your amplifier). So a 10 db increase requires about 10 times more power.

Generally, twice the volume means about a 10 db increase in volume.

Bud