Problem running MW and Induction cook top

[booster]

Did they put in a brand other than a Tripplite?

[AZ ADVenturist]

Ron; glad you got it sorted out. Can't imagine why they would do things differently one unit to another. But ours being a '13 must be diff. from your later model. Just sounds goofy, guess that's RoadTrek for you.
Any way, good on ya'.
Regards, Ric.

[Capt Ron]

They replaced with a new Tripp Lite unit that matches the old unit.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Capt Ron

I think it is because of what Tripp Lite said and the varying frequency of the generator. They said, that the frequency has to be 60 + or - .03hz,

.03hz? IMO, I don't think even your commercial power company can meet that threshold. My understanding is that at the commercial generating plant, they routinely tweak frequency up or down routinely to ensure an average of 60hz so that customer electric clocks and timers remain accurate. Unless the RV generator is the recent inverter type, I don't think there is a prayer of it maintaining .03hz regulation under static, much less shifting appliance loads. However, a well designed inverter probably does meet that standard.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

.03hz? IMO, I don't think even your commercial power company can meet that threshold. My understanding is that at the commercial generating plant, they routinely tweak frequency up or down routinely to ensure an average of 60hz so that customer electric clocks and timers remain accurate. Unless the RV generator is the recent inverter type, I don't think there is a prayer of it maintaining .03hz regulation under static, much less shifting appliance loads. However, a well designed inverter probably does meet that standard.

I wondered about that, too. I assumed they meant .03 as 3% or 1.8hz.

[Capt Ron]

You guys are right it should be 0.3 hz my period was off a space..

See the specs: https://www.tripplite.com/1250w-powerverter-rv-inverter-charger-hardwire-input-output~RV1250ULHW/

[booster]

I don't think any generator with a mechanical governor will hold +/- .3hz. that is only +/- 18 rpm on a 3600 rpm run speed generator or .5%. IIRC, the corrections the power company does to make adjustments to keep the clocks right over 24 hour periods are in the range of .3hz, but it has been a while since I have seen those specs. When the AC compressor comes on, you can hear an Onan slow down, but I haven't had a tach on one to check how much as you can't get at the motor easily.

If someone has a frequency meter, they could check it easily by running their generator and starting and stopping loads. The Onan should give a pure sine wave so a meter would be accurate, some of the inverter generators apparently generate pretty dirty power so hard to get good readings, I have been told.

[Capt Ron]

I did do a test of the unit with the generator running.
I started the air conditioner first and let the compressor get started.
Then I started the induction cook top. things worked fine, until I started the microwave also.
After a very short time the inverter interrupted the AC to both , the microwave and the induction cook top.
The air conditioner continued to run. (not wired thru inverter)
I'm sure I had exceeded the generator load limits, but it was the frequency that the inverter reacted to, and shut things off.
I was able to restart either the microwave or the induction cook top right away.
I could continue using the induction cook top or the microwave with the air conditioner compressor switching off and on, just not both at the same time.

I have a couple frequency meters to do a test with but I don't think there is a need to.

Things are working.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

I don't think any generator with a mechanical governor will hold +/- .3hz. that is only +/- 18 rpm on a 3600 rpm run speed generator or .5%. IIRC, the corrections the power company does to make adjustments to keep the clocks right over 24 hour periods are in the range of .3hz, but it has been a while since I have seen those specs. When the AC compressor comes on, you can hear an Onan slow down, but I haven't had a tach on one to check how much as you can't get at the motor easily.

If someone has a frequency meter, they could check it easily by running their generator and starting and stopping loads. The Onan should give a pure sine wave so a meter would be accurate, some of the inverter generators apparently generate pretty dirty power so hard to get good readings, I have been told.

In looking at the specs at:

https://www.tripplite.com/1250w-powe...ut~RV1250ULHW/

I think the .3hz figure cuted refers only refes to the output frequency of the inverter when delivering 120V which is certainly attainable.

Perhaps I've got this wrong, but I don't think the .3hz figure has anything to do with the frequency stability of 120V just passing through the unit to the loads. Unless there is a protection feature in this unit that examines shore power or generator frequency, all this unit is doing is issuing an instruction to its transfer switch and I don't think it is concerned about the frequency of the 120V passed through.

[booster]

I just looked at the Progressive Industries specs for the hardwired protectors that have been amongst those discussed in another thread. I would assume that things would be safe at the limits they have as they are a protector.

They say +/- 9 hz. Not point nine, really nine.

I did find some quoted Onan specs for somewhat larger units. They said 62/63hz unloaded and 61hz loaded.

[markopolo]

If the breaker on the Tripp Lite popped then a likely cause would be that the load exceeded the Tripp Lite 20A transfer switch rating. (from the specs: 2400 watts continuous AC output in AC mode) Note AC mode is not inverter mode. Inverter mode is rated 1250W continuous.

It's a bit surprising to me that the coach wiring design would permit easily overloading that internal transfer switch. Were you plugging into designated coach outlets?

In my '04, I could overload the Tripp Lite but I had to use an extension cord to an outlet intended for light loads in the schematic.

It is useful to know Power Factor rating for the components in the inverter/charger. Often it is .95 on parts like the internal transfer switch which is resistive loads like incandescent lights not inductive loads. You have to derate the switch for inductive loads.

If the breaker on the Tripp lite didn't pop then another likely cause of power interruption would be the self-resetting breakers on the wires from the batteries.

[Capt Ron]

Tripp Lite support said, that the unit checks the AC and will switch to inverter mode if it is out of spec.(+- 0.3 60hz and the voltage is adjustable)

Everything is plugged into their normal outlets and nothing trips. Just the AC to the units goes off for second during mode change.

But this was a test condition, not a normal condition. I knew that I was probably going to overload the generator with all of the Air conditioner, microwave, and induction cook top on. And the generator slowed enough to cause the switch.

I don't know why the outlets for the microwave and cook top are wired thru the inverter, they pull to much current for it.
Roadtrek probably just took a short cut with the wiring.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Capt Ron

Tripp Lite support said, that the unit checks the AC and will switch to inverter mode if it is out of spec.(+- 0.3 60hz and the voltage is adjustable)

These inverter/converter units typically do permit programming high and low voltage pass thru tolerances since local voltage can vary quite a bit. But providing adjustable frequency tolerance would be of no practical use when when examining a domestic power since since a .3hz is't going to happen. Frequency is determined at the power plant before it's delivered to the grid. If you see your shore power line frequency wobbling around, it's time to get out of town, preferably in the opposite direction from the power plant.

If the inverter/converter is also setup to pass onboard generator power, unless the generator is the inverter type, the inverter/converter will need an adjustable frequency feature because it's unlikely that the classic RV generator can meet a .3h frequency deviation standard, particularly during large swings in load demand.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

I just looked at the Progressive Industries specs for the hardwired protectors that have been amongst those discussed in another thread. I would assume that things would be safe at the limits they have as they are a protector.

They say +/- 9 hz. Not point nine, really nine.

I did find some quoted Onan specs for somewhat larger units. They said 62/63hz unloaded and 61hz loaded.

Tthe in-line portable unit that only reads conventional shore power hardly needs a frequency screening function. As a practical matter the device is incapable of detecting, much less displaying, the minuscule frequency deviation presented by shore power. I think you'd need a need a sophisticated oscilloscope with a freight load of memory to detect it. However, since the interior hardwired unit will also look at coach generator power where frequency stability is an issue, frequency monitoring here is useful.

But +/- 9hz represents safe limits? Yes and no. It might be OK for purely resistive devices, but for running a 60hz induction motor at 51hz or 69hz? Without veering into the technical weeds, I think that's an invitation for trouble.

As I see it, the 9hz +/- parameter isn't focused on continuous operation. It's focused on the significant but momentary frequency deviation of an RV generator while it gives out the typical grunt when hit with a heavy load or the sigh when the load is released. For those brief moments while the regulator is struggling to reestablish the correct frequency, the deviation might indeed be as much as +/- 9hz but this occurs for such a brief period that it doesn't have damaging consequences and the protector, so to speak, goes along with the gag.

However, if frequency regulation for ensuring proper converter and/or motor operation is the goal, IMO, the 9hz tolerance doesn't provide very good protection. It's better found down stream n a converter that permits you to define the generator frequency deviation limit to suit your particular application. It takes a little trial and error to trim the limits down to just above the point that doesn't cause occasional converter shutdown but if you're running an Onan, I think the effort's worth it.

[Capt Ron]

Well I'm back to the original problem. I can't use the microwave or induction cook top at all, since the Roadtek service dealer adjusted my generator. They have been e-mailing Roadtrek with all of the things that they have done, without any results.
Roadtrek seems to be slow to come up with a fix.
I think that the wrong type inverter was installed in the unit from the start.
It isn't designed to work with the Onan 2800 generator.
Or the two plugs for the units shouldn't be wired thru the inverter.
That would allow them to work on the generator or shore power but not the inverter.
Come on Roadtrek fix the problem, Please.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Capt Ron

Well I'm back to the original problem. I can't use the microwave or induction cook top at all, since the Roadtek service dealer adjusted my generator. They have been e-mailing Roadtrek with all of the things that they have done, without any results.
Roadtrek seems to be slow to come up with a fix.
I think that the wrong type inverter was installed in the unit from the start.
It isn't designed to work with the Onan 2800 generator.
Or the two plugs for the units shouldn't be wired thru the inverter.
That would allow them to work on the generator or shore power but not the inverter.
Come on Roadtrek fix the problem, Please.

Sorry to hear your problem.

How is it possible that Roadtrek installed the wrong inverter?
I thought they have a factory production line and everything is the same from one RV to the other.

Whatever the problem is, the fix should be fast and simple. This is not new tech. This is not rocket science. Roadtrek should swap out either the inverter, and/or the Onan generator. There is no reason to hold up a good customer from enjoying his rig.

[Capt Ron]

I talked with the service center again for an update on the status and they are still waiting on Roadtrek for a fix.
The service center is Sunshine State RV in Gainesville Fl.
They said, that they have emailed Roadtrek all of the information that they have tried and haven't heard anything from them. It has been over a month since they tried to fix the unit.
Roadtrek is really slow about doing anything!!

I hope that someone from Roadtrek sees this post and helps.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Capt Ron

I talked with the service center again for an update on the status and they are still waiting on Roadtrek for a fix.

The service center is Sunshine State RV in Gainesville Fl.

They said, that they have emailed Roadtrek all of the information that they have tried and haven't heard anything from them. It has been over a month since they tried to fix the unit.

Roadtrek is really slow about doing anything!!



I hope that someone from Roadtrek sees this post and helps.

That is crazy. Start by calling the dealer and Roadtrek every day until you get some action. If you leave it sit it will never get fixed. No one at Roadtrek will do anything based on a post in the forum.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Capt Ron]

I called Roadtrek and they said that Sunshine State RV had sent the e-mail to the wrong address. They gave me the correct one and a telephone number for them to call. I gave the information to them on Thursday and they called me today (Monday) with a fix that they are going to try.
Roadtrek is going to send them a different type inverter for them to try.

I'll let you know how it does when it has shipped and installed. Probably about week or so.

[Capt Ron]

UPDATE:

Roadtrek took the Trip Lite 1250 inverter out and installed a Magnum MM1212 inverter.

Now everything works as it should. The inverter will run the MW or the Onan generator will run it.

The problem was the Trip Lite inverter isn't compatible with the Onan Generator.