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Old 11-11-2020, 05:54 PM   #1
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Default Power goes out with Batteries at 12.5

Hi! I am new here. Just bought a 2021 Roadtrek Zion. This is my power set-up:

Battery – 400 AMP Lithium battery system
Generator – under-hood 280 AMP, 12 V
Power inverter/converter/transfer switch – 12/110 V, 3,000 W
Solar - 330 watts

I have had my van 2 weeks. I work remotely. I have my laptop, my cell phone and teh 24 in smart TV which serves as a dual monitor.

In the middle of the day with the Sun high in the sky. My power goes out. Am I doing something wrong?

I ended up turning on the engine so the under hood generator charged up the batteries. I had hit reset for them to work even though the lights were on.

Any help would be appreciated.

Leigh
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Old 11-11-2020, 07:38 PM   #2
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Assuming it's an ecotrek battery ....... You might have answered the "do the lights go out at 12.4V" question here: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post120394

I'd suggest keeping the system above 12.8V. That's representative of 10% remaining in a lithium (LiFePO4 / LFP) battery. Below that it will be operating off the AGM battery.



330W solar might not be enough solar to keep up with the daily parasitic losses. See: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post111730

What voltage do you charge to? I think you'll have to try to near fully charge the lithium / LFP battery each time for it to last a bit longer between recharges. The programmed upper limit from the KS2 Lithium Battery Guides looks to be 14.4V so I'd suggest trying to reach that target when charging.
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Old 11-11-2020, 08:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo View Post
Assuming it's an ecotrek battery ....... You might have answered the "do the lights go out at 12.4V" question here: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post120394

I'd suggest keeping the system above 12.8V. That's representative of 10% remaining in a lithium (LiFePO4 / LFP) battery. Below that it will be operating off the AGM battery.



330W solar might not be enough solar to keep up with the daily parasitic losses. See: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post111730

What voltage do you charge to? I think you'll have to try to near fully charge the lithium / LFP battery each time for it to last a bit longer between recharges. The programmed upper limit from the KS2 Lithium Battery Guides looks to be 14.4V so I'd suggest trying to reach that target when charging.
Thank you! I have been charging to about 13.5. I will use my generator to charge to 14.5 tomorrow and test that theory.

L
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Old 11-11-2020, 08:36 PM   #4
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From the KS2 Lithium Battery Guides in the other topic, the charge relay might open at 14.4V. Open means disconnect (stop charging) in this context. Maybe try for 14.3V for your first test. Even 14.0V would be a good test. 13.5V might not even get it to 50% charged.

Find 13.5V here:



And you see that 13.5V when charging is a long way from near full. That's a graph of the voltage rise when I charged LFP batteries to 14.0V.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:02 PM   #5
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For systems running Lithium, voltage is not a useful indicator. A shunt with a meter is the only way to properly measure remaining capacity. I'd be quite surprised if your new van didn't come with something like that.

Meanwhile, it sounds like you discharged your batteries so deeply that the protective circuit in the BMS shut you down so you couldn't draw any more, which could possibly have damaged the batteries if you had done so.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:08 PM   #6
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Looking at voltage is likely the only option in ltlester's RV. Gotta try to do the best you can with that system.
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Old 11-11-2020, 11:34 PM   #7
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Thank you for all the info.

Any idea how long I need to run the underhood generator to charge up to 14.4? I had it on for over 30 min today and it barely got to 13.3.

Leigh

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo View Post
From the KS2 Lithium Battery Guides in the other topic, the charge relay might open at 14.4V. Open means disconnect (stop charging) in this context. Maybe try for 14.3V for your first test. Even 14.0V would be a good test. 13.5V might not even get it to 50% charged.

Find 13.5V here:



And you see that 13.5V when charging is a long way from near full. That's a graph of the voltage rise when I charged LFP batteries to 14.0V.
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:18 AM   #8
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Here are the two readings I was able to get off my MPPT Charge Controller. The load was showing

Load Current (A): 0.02A
Load Voltage(V) 12.88V
Load Power (W) 0.25W

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltlester View Post
Thank you for all the info.

Any idea how long I need to run the underhood generator to charge up to 14.4? I had it on for over 30 min today and it barely got to 13.3.

Leigh
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_20201111_161009.jpg (92.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-12-2020, 01:39 AM   #9
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If starting from the same depth of discharge then more than 1 hour per 200Ah restored I'd assume. I recall 165 amps being mentioned as the output when the alternator is hot. I don't recall if the output is as high as that at idle or if that was at highway speeds.

As your coach is a 2021 it might have improvements that haven't been mentioned on the forum yet.

Do you have two 200Ah batteries or one 400Ah battery?

re: the images and load info

I doubt the load terminals are used. Solar controllers have connections for the solar panel, battery & load but load is most often not used.

Solar image shows 0 kWh "Daily Energy Generated" so maybe something's not right. "Monthly Energy Generated" shows 10.72 kWh. See what it shows tomorrow.

Just looked at this doc: http://home.roadtreking.ca/Manuals/F...une%202020.pdf

Looks like the GU might be set to 13.8V & same for solar absorption ........... ? ? Epever solar controller charging modes are Equalize, Boost & Float. Boost = Absorption. "Charging Limit Voltage" is a limit not a charging mode.

Maybe you can't even get to 14V+ unless plugged in?

Someone at Roadtrek should be able to tell you what the charge parameters are set at.
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Old 11-12-2020, 01:46 PM   #10
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Two good sites to read through:

Link: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

and

Link: Marine lithium batteries in operation | Nordkyn Design

I think the charge to 13.8V comes from marinehowto. His data shows it works for him. It's a very specific charge and use routine though. From the site:

Quote:
Before you get too excited these cells have:

--Never been floated, they get charged, then discharged
--Only absorbed to a net 8A - 10A at 13.8V -14.0V
--Not charged above 14.0V unless for testing purposes (I now have a few other banks for that)
--Max charge rate at approx .3C
--Stored at 50% SOC when not being used or cycled
--Stored in 45-60F temps when not being used or cycled
--Only very rarely exceeded 80F
--Highest voltage they have ever seen was 3.8VPC while top balancing initially.
Note: 13.8 to 14.0V, never floated, stored at 50% SOC etc., charged then discharged - so no partial charges, no partial discharges. The battery is cycled from full charge then discharged and then it's charged again. Very little mention of solar in that article.

That usage isn't doesn't match up well with how Class B's are typically used. Overnights might result in a low state of charge, then you get some solar in morning & might drive the van a bit then return to a campsite & the cycle starts all over again. Lots of partial charging and discharging.

nordkyndesign site has more technical information. I refer to the site often. How the conclusions are reached is well documented with references.

It gives the definition of 100% charged. It is 3.65V per cell and tail current at C/30. IMO, you have to know what 100% is to be able to determine all other state of charge points.

It's just a definition & you don't have to charge to 100%.

Whereas marinehowto says to charge to 13.8-14.0V, nordkyndesign indicates 14.0V should be the minimum target. From the site:

Quote:
My experience so far has been that any termination voltage below at least 3.5V/cell should be considered as inadequate if the installation experiences incomplete charge cycles.
3.5*4 = 14V

My takeaway: Both sites see to charging to 14V as acceptable. Both sites recommend charge termination and not continuously charging. Both sites indicate charging to 14.6V is the upper safe limit if charging is terminated at that point and individual cell voltages aren't allowed to exceed 3.65V.
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Old 11-12-2020, 02:58 PM   #11
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If you just want to noodle on optimal ways to charge lithium batteries, voltages, and which batteries might be best suited for your purpose, this is a fun YouTube channel, lots of interesting videos, lots of nerdy and geeky stuff about how to really ensure your batteries are fully charged, etc. He's got plenty of opinions, of course, but they appear to be soundly based and he seems to have a good handle on what he's talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos
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