Onan Generator - A Tale of Woe

[rowiebowie]

My generator started acting up again - totally out of the blue. I did nothing to it (not even an oil change) from the last time it was working perfectly. In my first 2 years of ownership, the generator stalled regularly but would always restart. It only started working perfectly during 2020. Yes, the only year in which we barely traveled, so little use was made of it during those good-running times.

In this latest tale, the governor will no longer adjust speed under load. It just suddenly started running too fast (133-134 volts/67-68Hz) at no load, then drops too low (117volts/56-57Hz) under an 11-12 amp ac load. No matter the governor speed or governor sensitivity settings I've tried, there is always a 16-17 volt/11-12 Hz drop under 1/2 load. While the 117 volts under load seems fine, it used to run at that voltage and maintain the proper 60Hz.

I finally decided that a professional touch was required, so I took it into a local Onan/Cummins certified service center. I told them it starts fine, runs smooth, and does not stall, but the governor will not adjust speed.

$365.70 later, I was told it was ready for pickup. They tried to tack on an additional $55 labor, but I showed them the text I received with the $365 final quote so they honored that amount.

While I was giving them time to adjust the invoice, I went outside and started the generator using my Progressive Industries EMS (plugged in using a 120v adapter) to monitor generator output. Yes, you guessed it, 134volts and 68Hz with an over-voltage error code on the EMS. Oh, and when I started the ac the voltage dropped to 117volts/57Hz. Now, where had I seen that?

I went back inside and asked to speak to the mechanic, He said yea, the only way he could get it to run anywhere near proper output under load, was to set it too high without a load because the governor wouldn't kick in.

I was boiling at this point but I managed to calmly tell him that was exactly what I brought it in for, and they had taken my money leaving me under the impression it was fixed but did not disclose to me it was not. I further explained that I feared for the health of my 1 month old ac running at only 56-57Hz. In addition to that, I can't even use the generator charge my batteries since my inverter/charger shows the same over-voltage error code as my Progressive Industries and won't not turn on.

The mechanic asked if I wanted to leave it so he could look at it again.

I asked what would he try that he had not tried in the first 3 hours? He said maybe a new governor spring. I decided to leave, lick my wounds, and never return.

Like a drunk talking to a bartender, I guess I just want to share my sorrow. Thank you for listening.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

My generator started acting up again - totally out of the blue. I did nothing to it (not even an oil change) from the last time it was working perfectly. In my first 2 years of ownership, the generator stalled regularly but would always restart. It only started working perfectly during 2020. Yes, the only year in which we barely traveled, so little use was made of it during those good-running times.

In this latest tale, the governor will no longer adjust speed under load. It just suddenly started running too fast (133-134 volts/67-68Hz) at no load, then drops too low (117volts/56-57Hz) under an 11-12 amp ac load. No matter the governor speed or governor sensitivity settings I've tried, there is always a 16-17 volt/11-12 Hz drop under 1/2 load. While the 117 volts under load seems fine, it used to run at that voltage and maintain the proper 60Hz.

I finally decided that a professional touch was required, so I took it into a local Onan/Cummins certified service center. I told them it starts fine, runs smooth, and does not stall, but the governor will not adjust speed.

$365.70 later, I was told it was ready for pickup. They tried to tack on an additional $55 labor, but I showed them the text I received with the $365 final quote so they honored that amount.

While I was giving them time to adjust the invoice, I went outside and started the generator using my Progressive Industries EMS (plugged in using a 120v adapter) to monitor generator output. Yes, you guessed it, 134volts and 68Hz with an over-voltage error code on the EMS. Oh, and when I started the ac the voltage dropped to 117volts/57Hz. Now, where had I seen that?

I went back inside and asked to speak to the mechanic, He said yea, the only way he could get it to run anywhere near proper output under load, was to set it too high without a load because the governor wouldn't kick in.

I was boiling at this point but I managed to calmly tell him that was exactly what I brought it in for, and they had taken my money leaving me under the impression it was fixed but did not disclose to me it was not. I further explained that I feared for the health of my 1 month old ac running at only 56-57Hz. In addition to that, I can't even use the generator charge my batteries since my inverter/charger shows the same over-voltage error code as my Progressive Industries and won't not turn on.

The mechanic asked if I wanted to leave it so he could look at it again.

I asked what would he try that he had not tried in the first 3 hours? He said maybe a new governor spring. I decided to leave, lick my wounds, and never return.

Like a drunk talking to a bartender, I guess I just want to share my sorrow. Thank you for listening.

Interesting? Did you take to Onan Cummings service center?

[booster]

Sounds as if they may be trying to set you up for the all too common, I think, scenario of telling you it will cost more to fix than a new generator will cost routine like has happened to others on here and elsewhere. They will probably tell you how long they worked on it and how much they lost, but will give you credit for what you paid in poor repairs toward a new generator. Of course they may also come up with the "no parts available because obsolete" so can't be fixed and you should buy new.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Interesting? Did you take to Onan Cummings service center?

Yes, they were listed on the Cummins site on their list of Authorized Service Centers.

There is another authorized service center, but i will never go back to them since they are the RV dealership I took my rv in for other repairs after first purchasing it. They are crooks. I took it to them for a bad macerator and dead tank monitor. $335 later they told me it had a bad macerator and bad tank monitor. The also said I needed all new ABS tank plumbing underneath the van due to cracks. Funny, because there we no leaks and I never mentioned anything about plumbing to them. They wanted another $1800 or over $2100 for all repairs. I paid their "diagnostic fee" above, took my keys, and went home.

I fixed the monitor for $0.25 cents by replacing a hidden 1A in-line fuse thanks to Airstream sending me an electrical schematic. But first I hand to correct the reversed wiring they had done to ensue the monitor would not work even after I replaced the fuse.

I replaced the macerator myself for $200 and never had to touch the plumbing. Their claimed "cracks" were simply bubbles or voids in the blue glue used to join the ABS sections together. This was excess glue and cosmetic only, so completely irrelevant and they had to know that but were thinking they could take advantage of a newbie.

In a strange way, they did me a favor since I've never been back to an rv dealer since and have done all repairs myself.

Which brings us to the present. I have now spent $700 (combined total to the rv dealer in 2017 and the Onan shop yesterday) for absolutely nothing. This amount was certainly not a wallet-breaker, but I refuse to pay another dollar to shops that are either crooks, incompetent, or both.

At this point, if my rv ever sees the inside of a shop again, it will only be in desperation should something catastrophic occur far from home. Before I'd spend anything more on the generator, I'd purchase a new QG2800i and install it myself.

And just to avoid the obvious question, I spent weeks searching for and calling dozens of small engine repair and generator repair shops (non Onan) attempting to find other sources of repair without luck. That is why I finally relented and tried an authorized Onan service center.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by booster

Sounds as if they may be trying to set you up for the all too common, I think, scenario of telling you it will cost more to fix than a new generator will cost routine like has happened to others on here and elsewhere. They will probably tell you how long they worked on it and how much they lost, but will give you credit for what you paid in poor repairs toward a new generator. Of course they may also come up with the "no parts available because obsolete" so can't be fixed and you should buy new.

They may be trying, but I'm not taking their bait. If I should give up on this generator (and I'm probably there), I will purchase a new QG2800i and install it myself. The dimensions are slightly different than the original QG2800KV, but I have the Length x Width to accomodate it. The new generators are about 1-1/2" taller, but thanks to my recent lift, that would not pose a problem.

I found a QG2800i for just under $3000 with 1 to 12 weeks delay in shipping. Probably hundreds more in cost for support case and updated monitor. But I might do it. https://www.norwall.com/products/ona...28hglaa-8303a/

[hbn7hj]

If you do the QGi replacement please write it up. Others have done it but didn’t report on the problems encountered. I’m mostly curious about the exhaust changes.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

If you do the QGi replacement please write it up. Others have done it but didn’t report on the problems encountered. I’m mostly curious about the exhaust changes.

I certainly will do that, but if I do the replacement, I expect it will be a while since my expectation is if I was to order Monday they will say 12 weeks until shipment.

I found three sources all with the same price of $2915 & free shipping.

https://www.norwall.com/products/ona...28hglaa-8303a/

https://www.coloradostandby.com/cumm...glaa-8302a-gas

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/c...BoCri0QAvD_BwE

The first says ships in 1-12 weeks. The other two say call for availability. Of the reviews I can find on the sellers, most are dissatisfied one-star. However, most of the bad reviews seem to center around damage in shipment or being asked to consult the Cummins warranty before returning it. So not necessarily reflecting that bad on the seller, but also not good.

Just an aside, a different local rv and Onan dealer quoted me $5100. While they did not say if that was the installed price, I highly suspect is was just for the unit.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I certainly will do that, but if I do the replacement, I expect it will be a while since my expectation is if I was to order Monday they will say 12 weeks until shipment.

I found three sources all with the same price of $2915 & free shipping.

https://www.norwall.com/products/ona...28hglaa-8303a/

https://www.coloradostandby.com/cumm...glaa-8302a-gas

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/c...BoCri0QAvD_BwE

The first says ships in 1-12 weeks. The other two say call for availability. Of the reviews I can find on the sellers, most are dissatisfied one-star. However, most of the bad reviews seem to center around damage in shipment or being asked to consult the Cummins warranty before returning it. So not necessarily reflecting that bad on the seller, but also not good.

Just an aside, a different local rv and Onan dealer quoted me $5100. While they did not say if that was the installed price, I highly suspect is was just for the unit.

I have read about Travato Facebook owners having their Onan replaced with 2800i. Most are pretty happy with it. Some even had installed by Onan dealership but only select ones. They said installation requires a kit. More vibration reducers, etc. Please keep us updated!

[BillsPaseo]

You can get one of these for less money, no installation hassles, and it's a whole lot quieter (49 DB vs 63 DB at low load, and 57 vs 65 at full load). Just need to find somewhere to haul it.

https://powerequipment.honda.com/gen...odels/eu3000is

If my Onan dies, I'll be going this route. I probably don't even need one that big, the smaller ones are even quieter, and easier to transport...

[rowiebowie]

If I do replace the generator, it will be with the Onan 2800i. Why? Because it is designed to be mounted underneath and the Honda would have to adapted to fit there and also plumbed to the gas tank so would probably be more hassle. I do not want anything mounted on my rear hitch as I already have the spare tire obstructing the left door.

Plus, my hope is the new inverter Onan solves all the major complaints of the old units:

Fuel Injected - for reliable starting and running, better fuel economy. Also eliminates the need for altutude adjustment.

Engine - Quieter due to lower engine speed, improved muffler, better mounts for less vibration.

Inverter - Pure sine-wave power, brushless operation, with less parts.

Of course, I could be falling for the hype and the few reviews that are out there (not many at this stage).

[rowiebowie]

I feel the need to explain the reason for even wanting a generator on my rv. Given how little we've used it, the answer is neither rational or financially justified. Suffice it to say, I just want it.

We've never camped a single night running the generator. Partly because it didn't run reliably, and partly because we seek cool temperatures or find electric sites whenever ac is needed. I've also added 200Ah of lithium batteries and 3000W inverter so we can heat with the microwave on battery power.

But the generator has been very useful for brief day-use. When camping and stopping to eat along the way while traveling, we've used it to cool the back portion of the coach.. Likewise, during the past year where you cannot enter doctor visits, vets offices, etc. together with your spouse, it was nice to sit in the comfort of ac in the van while waiting. I say "this past year" because it was the single 12 month period out of 3-1/2 years that the generator ran flawlessly.

Unfortunately, it didn't last.

Finally, the Onan in the van eliminates the need for an emergency backup generator. What other generator has a 20-25 gallon tank of gas to draw upon (35 gals less 1/3 to 1/4 held in reserve to prevent depleating the van's gas tank). That's almost 5 days of 24/7 runtime. Enough to get through nearly any emergency.

Of course, I realize this is all pie-in-the-sky and assumes the new Onan inverter generator is dependable.

[hbn7hj]

I will go the same way (replace with Onan) which is why we would like the feedback. The adapter kit to the KV mounting is $231. They don’t mention the exhaust changes or whether the remote works.

The problem with the exhaust is it is 1 1/4”stainless steel. Onan is the only source I know of for the tubing and no exhaust shop has a die to bend 1 1/4” tubing. Maybe all you have to do is cut off the original 90 degree bend.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

I will go the same way (replace with Onan) which is why we would like the feedback. The adapter kit to the KV mounting is $231. They don’t mention the exhaust changes or whether the remote works.

The problem with the exhaust is it is 1 1/4”stainless steel. Onan is the only source I know of for the tubing and no exhaust shop has a die to bend 1 1/4” tubing. Maybe all you have to do is cut off the original 90 degree bend.

Are you saying, existing mount cannot be used with new 2800i? How about the fuel line and electrical connections need rerouting? Maybe not an easy swap out?

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

I will go the same way (replace with Onan) which is why we would like the feedback. The adapter kit to the KV mounting is $231. They don’t mention the exhaust changes or whether the remote works.

The problem with the exhaust is it is 1 1/4”stainless steel. Onan is the only source I know of for the tubing and no exhaust shop has a die to bend 1 1/4” tubing. Maybe all you have to do is cut off the original 90 degree bend.

Do a search for 1 1/4" diameter exhaust header primary tubing and bends.


https://www.summitracing.com/search/...er-in/1-250-in


for instance.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by booster

Do a search for 1 1/4" diameter exhaust header primary tubing and bends.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...er-in/1-250-in

for instance.

Cheaper than Onan. Don’t expect any local shop to be able to bend it but you may luck out. If you need a bend you could cut a bend section and get it welded locally. Nice to know. I don’t weld which limits my options. Maybe you could heat it and put a slight bend in it, if needed.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

I will go the same way (replace with Onan) which is why we would like the feedback. The adapter kit to the KV mounting is $231. They don’t mention the exhaust changes or whether the remote works.

The problem with the exhaust is it is 1 1/4”stainless steel. Onan is the only source I know of for the tubing and no exhaust shop has a die to bend 1 1/4” tubing. Maybe all you have to do is cut off the original 90 degree bend.

Thanks for the info on the mounting kit. Where did you find it? I have not been able to find anything myself.

I'm anticipating the straight exhaust pipe will work for me The diagrams show it straight out to the driver's side. That is what I'd prefer and I have no obstructions in the pathway that would prevent it.

My current KV generator exhaust comes out the bottom (losing 2" of ground clearance) and exits the passenger side towards the campsite (a very poor choice indeed).

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Are you saying, existing mount cannot be used with new 2800i? How about the fuel line and electrical connections need rerouting? Maybe not an easy swap out?

I believe that is true for my older model needing a new mount or adapter. But I also read on one site the 2800i will work with existing mounts, so I presume newer non-inverter Onan's are different dimensions than mine. The new 2800i is about an inch difference L & W (just based on my rough measurements) and about 1-1/2" taller than my current gen.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, my current exhaust extends 2" out of the bottom. So the new generator extending out the side should more than make up for additional height. But also, my recent 3" lift would also render that not a problem.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Cheaper than Onan. Don’t expect any local shop to be able to bend it but you may luck out. If you need a bend you could cut a bend section and get it welded locally. Nice to know. I don’t weld which limits my options. Maybe you could heat it and put a slight bend in it, if needed.

I don’t know how critical all this is, but you can adapt from 1.25 to 1.5 for about $10. $50 will get you 25ft of flexible 1.25 pipe.

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Cheaper than Onan. Don’t expect any local shop to be able to bend it but you may luck out. If you need a bend you could cut a bend section and get it welded locally. Nice to know. I don’t weld which limits my options. Maybe you could heat it and put a slight bend in it, if needed.

It does tend to be pretty strong, high quality tubing pieces. If you get to the right places they might have it in 45*, 30* 90* angles as well as J's and U's.


I have used it a lot making custom exhaust systems and it works very well.



As you say, you need to be able to weld it or find a somebody with a small 120v welder to help for a case of beer or such.


On 1.25 in mild steel, not stainless, you might be able to heat and bend it some, but you need a big torch and a lot of care. Minor angle changes are much easier and with a smaller torch as selective heating will make it bend itself slightly.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Thanks for the info on the mounting kit. Where did you find it? I have not been able to find anything myself.

I'm anticipating the straight exhaust pipe will work for me The diagrams show it straight out to the driver's side. That is what I'd prefer and I have no obstructions in the pathway that would prevent it.

My current KV generator exhaust comes out the bottom (losing 2" of ground clearance) and exits the passenger side towards the campsite (a very poor choice indeed).

https://www.coloradostandby.com/cumm...om-kv-a043f935