Onan Generator - A Tale of Woe

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

https://www.coloradostandby.com/cumm...om-kv-a043f935

Thanks, I missed that.

Wow, about 8% of the generator cost for just a few brackets. I knew they'd dollar & dime me to death.

EDIT: I just matched the model the kit is designed to work with to this pre-inverter model. Mine is yet an older model.

https://www.amazon.com/Cummins-Onan-.../dp/B00JVQLYYA

[hbn7hj]

Yours is a KV which the kit is designed to work with. The KV was two models ago. Your link is not a KV.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Yours is a KV which the kit is designed to work with. The KV was two models ago. Your link is not a KV.

Exactly. I posted my link to show it is a different model than mine the adapter kit references to. I would need an adapter from my model KV to the new inverter model 2800i HGLAA-8303A.

I also tried just searching for a complete underfloor mounting kit for the 2800i HGLAA-8303A inverter as if I was trying to do a brand new install, but came up empty.

[hbn7hj]

Call Onan. They will let you know what works. The new one is being under mounted on new RVs. For me, I would buy the generator and make it work.

Compare the width of the one the kit is designed for and the 2800i.

I just checked. One is 22” and the other is 21.9”. Close enough for me. Get the kit.

[hbn7hj]

Watcha gonna do? Personally I would make a personal attempt to fix the governor, I think.

I would like to have the new one, though. Sure, we would all prefer the Honda but we looked at it and it cannot be adapted to under mount with it’s vertical cylinder. There is a shot with the Yamaha. It would take a lot of work.

Hope you go new Onan to let us know the problems involved.

[rowiebowie]

Here's the reply I got from Coleman (Airxcel) support when I asked if I should be concerned with low Hz from my generator while running my Coleman Mach 8 Plus ac.

What say you?
.

[hecbom]

I had same problem you were having but my fix was not a Governor spring replacement. Obviously this guy does not know what he is doing, he is just guessing, replacing parts and hoping he hit the problem. I fixed my issue by replacing the regulator board. I got mine from Amazon and that fixed the problem. Not sure if your model has a regulator board but mine had one. Hope that helps.

[terance13]

Isn't there another technology available now to replace the ICE generators? A couple of months ago for kicks I was looking at newer RV's and seems like those do not have a ICE generator.

[CareyM]

i'd call onan cummins HQ tech support line before spending $2900.

rv dealers who claim to be 'certified c - o 'repair centers are not as good as the onan cummins mechanics at any cummins truck stop. we have one near my home in w pa and they diagnosed and fixed a similar problem in my c -o gen in my 07 roadtrek --for about $300.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by hecbom

I had same problem you were having but my fix was not a Governor spring replacement. Obviously this guy does not know what he is doing, he is just guessing, replacing parts and hoping he hit the problem. I fixed my issue by replacing the regulator board. I got mine from Amazon and that fixed the problem. Not sure if your model has a regulator board but mine had one. Hope that helps.

Mine probably has a regulator, although I don't recall the Troubleshooting section of the Onan Service Manual mentioning my problem or a possible solution, but I will check again.

Originally Posted by terance13

Isn't there another technology available now to replace the ICE generators? A couple of months ago for kicks I was looking at newer RV's and seems like those do not have a ICE generator.

They're all internal combustion engine generators. But you may be referring to ones that run off an engine belt rather than a stand-alone unit like mine. So things are changing.

Originally Posted by CareyM

i'd call onan cummins HQ tech support line before spending $2900.

rv dealers who claim to be 'certified c - o 'repair centers are not as good as the onan cummins mechanics at any cummins truck stop. we have one near my home in w pa and they diagnosed and fixed a similar problem in my c -o gen in my 07 roadtrek --for about $300.

The Onan service center I went to is not an rv dealer, but they had a class A in their shop at the time I took mine. If I lived in your part of the country, I'd certainly take a word-of-mouth recommendation as a good reason to take it to a particular shop. Even though we are a semi-destination point (being on the Gulf Coast), we have a limited number of outlets for our rvs. That, and the ones I've tried being either incompetent or crooks, is why I've done all other repairs myself. I can probably handle anything, except what's wrong with my generator.

I do feel like the new inverter gens from Onan solve many of the negatives of the old ones. Mainly reliability and quietness.


Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by terance13

Isn't there another technology available now to replace the ICE generators? A couple of months ago for kicks I was looking at newer RV's and seems like those do not have a ICE generator.

The other technology is the second under hood alternator described as under hood generators with some companies. Some can produce up to 330 amps per hour battery replenishment which is better than an Onan generator. They are popular coupled with high amp hour battery banks of 400ah and more which most are lithium ion batteries. Driving replenishes batteries from overnight stays in less than 30 minutes typically in my experience. Some couple the system with automatic auto start or remote start with high idle parked in a campground if batteries drop below a certain percentage of charge. Perfectly safe, the keyless auto start engine turns off as soon as you step on the break petal to shift into drive, so no drive off theft. Second alternators can cost nearly as much as an Onan generator when all is said and done. Less weight, quieter, less maintenance, no taking precious under floor space and combined with compressor refrigerators you don’t need or have to rely on propane and leave that other underfloor space hog off.

[JohnnyFry]

You might try a commercial electrician. They bens EMT and rigid conduit every day and may well have a bender equipped to bend 1 1/4.

[hbn7hj]

Any progress toward getting a working generator? The adapter kit is listed on the QG 2800i spec sheet as the correct one to adapt from a KV.

If my KV burps, it is gone!

[rowiebowie]

No change and no action on my part thus far. The generator starts, runs smooth, doesn't die, but still 113V @ 57Hz is the output under load. As you can see in my post #26, the Coleman Support reply was 57Hz is probably ok, but they wouldn't recommend letting it go any lower.

Based on the above, I ran the generator about an hour powering my roof ac. It was just to see if anything changed, and it didn't. But it was consistent for the entire run.

I'm hesitant to use it like this permanently as my new $1000 roof ac is at stake. And while it may not fail immediately, the stress may result in premature failure in the future. This is not what killed my 3 yr. old ac as it seemed to just loose refrigerant. Also, we are generally plugged in when running the ac, I'd say about 90-95% of the time.

So this leaves me torn. On the one hand, I can easily see spending the price of a new ac on further generator repairs that may or may not fix the problem. Also, a new inverter Onan generator will most likely set me back almost $4000 (more if I don't install it myself). So I'm debating on whether to just run it and take a chance that the Coleman tech reply is correct and it shouldn't really hurt anything to run the ac at 5% under 60Hz.

If I lose the ac because of poor output, it is another $1000. But I can swap out the ac in about one hour, with little to no cursing. I will probably go with this option and most likely will be posting a "Tale of Woe II" follow-up in the future.

[billn]

If your generator isn't running at the correct voltage or Hertz, this guy explains how to adjust it. Not sure if it'll help but here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF7qcHwaxjw

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by billn

If your generator isn't running at the correct voltage or Hertz, this guy explains how to adjust it. Not sure if it'll help but here is the link:

I appreciate any and all suggestions. However, I had seen this guys video before and his model is pretty different from mine. But his story is the same as mine and many others where "Certified Onan Mechanics" take thousands of dollars over multiple visits with little to nothing to show for it.

My 2800QG "KV" model adjustment is much different than in the video, but I have previously adjusted mine using the instructions in the Onan Service Manual.

When I first got my van, I also purchased a Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X. I found a low voltage and low Hz output from my generator which was a more pressing problem than my stalling problem. I was able to adjust the governor speed and the governor sensitivity adjustments to exact specs when it was running (which was not reliable at this point) whether under load or no load.

My other problem was a stalling problem which persisted into my first two years of ownership. It finally resolved on it's own after I increased the number of times I "exercised" my generator. After slow but steady improvement over several months, the stalling problem vanished completely after I put a fuel cleaner/preservative in my gasoline tank near the beginning of 2020. Covid was rearing it's head and I figured the van wouldn't get much use making an additive a good idea.

Following a year of flawless (and I mean totally flawless running), a new problem arose this Spring when the runaway voltage and Hz that just started out of the blue. The difference this time was when I tried the same adjustment procedures that had worked previously, the governor sensitivity adjustment showed zero responsiveness to change. I resolved the runaway problem by reducing the governor speed, but this was only half the problem, and most likely the lesser problem. Because then, an load dropped the volts/Hz with the governor not kicking up to adjust for the load.

That is when I finally took it into a Onan Certified shop. As I stated in my opening post, I told them what it was doing and how the governor adjustment made no difference no matter how much adjustment was done. The called me 3 days and $370 later to tell me it was fixed. Before even leaving their lot, I found all the mechanic had done was increase the governor speed back to the level or over-run, which was the reason I brought it to them. The mechanic said yeah, he had to up the pre-load speed out of spec in order to keep at load speed to a minimum level (but still out of spec) because the governor sensitivity is unresponsive.

It was evil of them to call me and say it was ready to pick up when it was not fixed at all. And they had the nerve to say I could bring it back in so they could charge me some more.

As suggested by hecbom (Post #27 above), it could be a bad voltage regulator board, but I heard somewhere the part is $300 and the generator would have to be dropped to install it and it still might not fix the problem.

That is why I'm done spending anything more money on my current generator.

[rowiebowie]

Oven on airforums.com, a member posted his costs and dealer for replacing his Onan generator for a new inverter model. Details are in the 4th post down.

$3200 parts, plus $700 labor. The irony is they lease out their Airstream class b and their current renters are reporting some sort of issue.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...ml#post2514669

[tarp]

I just had the new Onan 2800i put in. Seems fine and no reports of a bad fit. The exhaust pipe is straight and non- stainless, no muffler(yet) I will try to send pictures and audio of it running.

[JonMN]

Good luck! At least you can look at the 2800i as an upgrade rather than just a fix. It's really quiet and starts great.

[hbn7hj]

Bottom line is you need to be able to remove the generator yourself even if you can’t fix it.

The R+R cost is around $300 which makes even a trivial dealer repair expensive. If they don’t do it correctly they are reluctant to do it again at no charge. Gotta be able to do it yourself. Mine has been out four times. The first one I paid for.

I was even able to replace the fuel pump on the road myself. It can be done.

You need some levelor blocks and a piece of carpet along with your standard tools.