New Onan QD 2800i inverter generator

[booster]

Here is a link to a post on another thread for the spec sheet Rlum managed to come up with and I posted for him. Figured in might be good to get this on it's own thread so searches will allow it to be found more easily.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post109337

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by booster

Here is a link to a post on another thread for the spec sheet Rlum managed to come up with and I posted for him. Figured in might be good to get this on it's own thread so searches will allow it to be found more easily.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post109337

Please upload a copy of the spec sheet pdf file rather than jpeg images of the individual pages.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Please upload a copy of the spec sheet pdf file rather than jpeg images of the individual pages.

Here ya go.



https://www.classbforum.com/forums/a...1&d=1591484559

[gerrym51]

I looked at specs.

it's about time.

[gerrym51]

i looked at the sound chart for the old onan. it says 70 decibels.

the new inverter model says 65.

since sound levels are logarithmic- this new model should be 5 times less loud

than the current model. I'd have to hear it BUT if it is truly what it says it is than this is ANOTHER sea change for b's.

from everything i;ve read the L models of Travato are about 25,000 dollars more.
getting this new onan model probably would just add a couple thousand to the base model with generator.

lithium batteries would not be required. agm or tppl agm would probably be the way to go.

no extra alternator,worries about protecting batteries etc.

[avanti]

What reason is there to believe that this unit will be a thousand dollars more expensive than the old one? It is almost certainly LESS expensive to produce. Yes, there is the NRE to pay for, but big companies expect to amortize this over many units. Yes, it is a better unit, but that doesn't let you raise prices unless the market allows it, and they are selling into the same market as the old one.

I am not especially predicting that the price won't go up. But so far I have seen no particular reason to expect that they would be hugely more expensive, either. I doubt the market would support a four-digit price increase.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i looked at the sound chart for the old onan. it says 70 decibels.

the new inverter model says 65.

since sound levels are logarithmic- this new model should be 5 times less loud

than the current model. I'd have to hear it BUT if it is truly what it says it is than this is ANOTHER sea change for b's.

from everything i;ve read the L models of Travato are about 25,000 dollars more.
getting this new onan model probably would just add a couple thousand to the base model with generator.

lithium batteries would not be required. agm or tppl agm would probably be the way to go.

no extra alternator,worries about protecting batteries etc.

I think the log scale for db is based on 10db increments, with 10db meaning a doubling, 20db being 4X, etc. This would put a 5db change in the range of maybe 20% of previous perceived sound. That was at 50% load also, so would have bigger change there than at full load when running hard. For comparison and Honda 3000i is rated 57db at 50% load. So more than a 4X change going up to old Onan.


Yep, and even for those looking for the weight saving of lithium and fast charging, a quiet and usable built in generator could replace the big alternator easily when paired with a 200 amp charger. Personally, I would rather run a generator if tolerable to running van engine while sitting still. Lithium banks could be much smaller, also, if you have the generator to run the AC and/or recharge the batteries.


Our power use and ability to carry the weight of enough AGM batteries + solar means we don't need the generator anyway, but for some it could really be a big deal, I think, especially in the hot south.

[mkguitar]

every 10dB is an approximate doubling of "apparent" sound level

the application of dB scaling varies depending on whether used to measure electric power, perception and varies again depending on frequency

the method of measuring used by Onan in brochure is not fully known and vibration through the mounts can turn the van into a resonator



more than you want to know:


Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease



I look forward to a undervan genny as quiet as the hondas and yamahas I don;t hear in the campground. and the advantages of FI and throttle control.

But I think it'll take a generation ( ha!) or 2 for the bugs to display and be worked out ( unless onan has simply adopted a known, proven unit for their brand)

I won't be a $3500 guinea pig


Mike

[booster]

I think I will wait for the fuel cell before I would wait for a trouble free Onan

[mtmdatlanta]

I believe this the unit I was told about by the rep from PleasureWay in January, who stated it would make the whole UHG with huge battery banks unnecessary.

A decrease of 5 db is usually pretty pronounced. They didn't talk about the sound spectrum. There is a frequency weighting that can be applied, because some tones are more bothersome than others. This can be seen in car tests by the magazines, where they will have the actual level and the "adjusted" level(dbA), because some cars will seem quieter than others with the same measured noise levels. It will be interesting to see those specs. Also, the vibration from the generators can excite vibrations in others panels, adding to the perceived and measured noise, so that will be interesting to observe as well.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I think the log scale for db is based on 10db increments, with 10db meaning a doubling, 20db being 4X, etc. This would put a 5db change in the range of maybe 20% of previous perceived sound. That was at 50% load also, so would have bigger change there than at full load when running hard. For comparison and Honda 3000i is rated 57db at 50% load. So more than a 4X change going up to old Onan.


Yep, and even for those looking for the weight saving of lithium and fast charging, a quiet and usable built in generator could replace the big alternator easily when paired with a 200 amp charger. Personally, I would rather run a generator if tolerable to running van engine while sitting still. Lithium banks could be much smaller, also, if you have the generator to run the AC and/or recharge the batteries.


Our power use and ability to carry the weight of enough AGM batteries + solar means we don't need the generator anyway, but for some it could really be a big deal, I think, especially in the hot south.

i looked at a chart-1o db was 10 times louder-i assumed 5 was 5 times. I am not an expert on db levels. i know they are logarithmic but other than that?

[JohnnyFry]

No that is incorrect: 3db is a doubling in sound pressure level, 6db is X4, 10db is 10X and 20db is X100. That said, as far as what we perceive is different: 10db, although 10X the SPL, is perceived as roughly twice as loud.

[JohnnyFry]

BTW: since there seems to be a lot of differing on the subject I thought I would provide documentation:

Sound System Engineering by Don and Carolyn Davis 2nd edition 1976

Acoustics by Leo Beranak, Standard college acoustics testboox sorry I don't have pub date

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

What reason is there to believe that this unit will be a thousand dollars more expensive than the old one? It is almost certainly LESS expensive to produce. Yes, there is the NRE to pay for, but big companies expect to amortize this over many units. Yes, it is a better unit, but that doesn't let you raise prices unless the market allows it, and they are selling into the same market as the old one.

I am not especially predicting that the price won't go up. But so far I have seen no particular reason to expect that they would be hugely more expensive, either. I doubt the market would support a four-digit price increase.

"What reason is there to believe that this unit will be a thousand dollars more expensive than the old one?"

Money, Profit.........

avanti, may I remind you that onan has a virtual monopoly - installed generators in B's that is not going away. So what is the competition?

- The few that somehow order one (year 2020) without a LOUD onan and uses a quiet generator.

- Someone that does not replace the broken LOUD onan.

- Someone that chooses other charging sources rather than a LOUD onan.

Does the new onan appear that much quieter? My guess is no. It is not going to change many lithium sales is my guess.

Bud

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Money, Profit.........

avanti, may I remind you that onan has a virtual monopoly - installed generators in B's that is not going away. So what is the competition?

Even if this is true, it was also true of the old unit. So, what has changed? As I said, it is the market that determines price, and the market is the same.

Higher prices do not automatically result in higher profits.

[gerrym51]

until i actually hear one-put me in the great if true category.

[booster]

If the numbers are correct it will be closer to noise of an old Onan than it will be from an Honda 3000i. That is certainly better, but near as quiet as the Honda. What we really need to see are full load noise levels for both.

[rowiebowie]

My opinion is changing. This change is unexpected, but here is why:

Since owning my rig for 2-1/2 years the Onan was a source of annoyance. It never ran right (would stumble and stall, but always restart). I adjusted the run speed and governor, but problems persisted. Although noise was never instrusive inside the van, it was noisy on the outside. Once I added the resonator, the sound was a bit quieter and more pleasant, but only incrementally so.

I was dissatisfied to the point of doing my own modest 200Ah lithium upgrade to be able to run the microwave. My travel plans were to stay in mild weather or with electric hookups so as to not depend on the generator for either roof a/c or charging.

What has changed:

In the past 2-3 months as I've "exercised" the generator more, it now starts and run flawlessly. Even sounds quieter. Maybe my hearing is going, but I can now easily hold a normal conversation at 5-10 feet from the exhaust tip.

The fact my generator is now dependable and unobtrusive has completely changed my opinion of it. Funny how you start to like something as soon as it stops being a pain in the a$$.

If the new generation Onan is dependable (EFI should help imensely) and is quieter (given the lower rpms when not under bigger loads should ensure that), it still beats a mega lithium bank. I love my lithiums, but it has me dropping plans to invest in more, since I can recharge the ones I have quickly with a generator.

If I had posted my opinion only a few months ago, I assure you it would have been different.

[GeorgeRa]

A well-engineered sound absorbing generator compartment, a liquid cooled engine, oil pump instead of an ancient oil scoop would make it closer to become a 24/7 quiet generator. These modifications could add a $1000 in cost.

3500W Harbor Freight generator advertises 57dB at $800 also with electric start. More expensive Honda is 50dB. So, Onan’s 65dB is not so good. I don’t know if these dB ratings are apple to apple comparison because measuring distance is critical. I remember that my Onan 2800 was ridiculously loud and my Honda 1000i is ridiculously quiet, unfortunately not at the 24/7 level.

I doubt 500 Fortune Cummins can produce a small quiet RV generator from a business perspective. Perhaps a small shop or start-up could re-engineered an existing quality generator including liquid cooling could be feasible. It could be sold as a kit or already modified unit.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

Even if this is true, it was also true of the old unit. So, what has changed? As I said, it is the market that determines price, and the market is the same.

Higher prices do not automatically result in higher profits.

avanti, I agree with: That the market is the same, old generator and new. The idea that the market Often/Usually determines the price. And that your point about profits is often true because of the market place.

But wait, this is not the Often/Usual market place. That was my point. onan has a virtual monopoly with B's with very few exceptions cited earlier. And they obviously know it.

They set the price for the new generator just like the last one knowing that with B's just what the market place is and where they fit. If their expenses are lower, so what? Hey, it is a better generator, why not charge more given the market place?

Given the market place they have. My guess is that the price will be higher even if the expenses are lower.

Bud