Need some help... Re. Warp Core Package on 2015 CS

[robkrohn]

We have an opportunity to purchase a lightly used 2015 CS with the 1600 ah lithium batteries + 600w solar. It is out of state and I only have pictures. The battery Panel (BMS) is not made up of eight battery control panels. It has just one with two toggle-type switches, one to activate the BMS, the other to turn on the display panel which shows the four banks minimum and maximum voltages and temperatures.

I think this is an older version of the current Ecotrec modular system. Is anyone familiar with this and have and comments or concerns?

[markopolo]

The display panel sounds similar to what Mumkin had - http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post33272

I think it would be worth calling Roadtrek warranty dept to discuss.

My understanding is the ecotrek modules have had revisions so you likely should get up to speed on that info also.

[gregmchugh]

Yes, you have a rare van with one of the original Ecotrek configurations. Roadtrek would likely be the only place to get info and they may be able to tell you why they dropped this configuration very quickly after the initial deliveries.

Is this at a dealer?

Are there pictures online of the controls and display for the Ecotreks?

[BBQ]

.

1600 ah lithium batteries + 600w solar???

I don't think they built many early units with such high spec.

The battery alone would worth a mint.

I would call RT and see if there are any upgrade/updates required to make the system run smoothly. RT is a pioneer in production all-electric RV. It is a steep learning curve for them and the customers (steep learning curve = many lesson$ learned through expen$ive and/or hair-pulling mi$take$).

Make sure you understand that this is NOT a 1600 ah system.
This is an 8 x 200 ah system.

Although you can run all 8 modules at the same time,
RT is recommending the users to engage one module at a time.
(the reasons behind it is complicated).

Before I jump right in,
I would get the name and model number of all the components and take lots of pictures. ie. BMS, inverter, converter, charger (most likely a combo unit), etc.,
hint: RT has been updating and changing/modifying certain components since the ecoTrek introduction. ie what you see in that rig might not be the same as what is in the current models.

It could be fun if the price is right.

[gregmchugh]

The risk is that there were at least one of these original warp core Ecotrek vans that were returned due to the fact that Roadtrek was unable to get them operational after months of work by the dealer and factory personnel. The current version Ecotrek modules seem to be pretty trouble free and have much lower parasitic internal power loss. Roadtrek may upgrade all the Ecotreks under warranty if they are not working and might switch to the new control panels also if the original system is faulty. On the other hand you have a system status display that many owners wish was on the newer configuration. If you are interested in technical challenges this might be a good choice if the price is right.

[robkrohn]

Not sure what was meant that it is not 1600ah. How is 8 x 200ah different.

The seller says "The single BMS panel shows the state of charge of all four banks, and the temperatures within each of the 32 lithium cells."

This certainly makes me nervous. It was delivered on 8/15. I wonder if it hung around RT for some time before it was shipped.

I supposed I could just rely on the warranty...

I need to call RT to get the real story.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

Not sure what was meant that it is not 1600ah. How is 8 x 200ah different.

The seller says "The single BMS panel shows the state of charge of all four banks, and the temperatures within each of the 32 lithium cells."

This certainly makes me nervous. It was delivered on 8/15. I wonder if it hung around RT for some time before it was shipped.

I supposed I could just rely on the warranty...

I need to call RT to get the real story.

Not sure what 4 banks means but yes it is 1600AH but probably made up of 8 200AH modules as opposed to an integrated bank of lithium cells. I wonder if it is configured as a 24 volt battery bank which is not done these days?

Are there pictures online?

[Bud]

robkrohn, I suggest the following

I would talk or maybe Put in Writing, not sure which one or maybe both.

The question for Roadtrek right up front?

The VIN # is__________

Is Roadttrek going to support this Roadtrek under warranty for a second, third or whatever owner???? Yes, or No? If yes with exceptions, what are the exceptions.

If yes, what dealer do you want me to use?

Given the specific vehicle how long will the work take, an estimate?

I would not touch an old etrek unless Roadtrek Fully steps up to the plate.

Bud

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

Not sure what was meant that it is not 1600ah. How is 8 x 200ah different.
::

I am glad I got your attention. Obviously there are something you need to discover.


Never make assumptions.






ps. I did not say it is not 1600ah....
read carefully, I said it is not a 1600ah system.
Subtle difference might mean a big difference.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I am glad I got your attention. Obviously there are something you need to discover.


Never make assumptions.






ps. I did not say it is not 1600ah....
read carefully, I said it is not a 1600ah system.
Subtle difference might mean a big difference.

It is a 1600 AH system using modular components isn't it? How is that not a system just because it uses modular battery modules?

[robkrohn]

From an engineering standpoint (I used to be one), 4 banks of 8 makes sense for LiFePO4 cells assuming there are eight parallel sets of 4 cells that are in series. (3.2v x 4 = 12.8v). Granted, I would have called this 8 banks of 4 cells. If the chemistry is different, e.g., Li-FeS (1.5v), then it could be (1.5v x 8 = 12v).

Regardless, the fact that the seller states that the BMS displays voltage and temperature for all 32 cells would imply there is a serious BMS system involved.

But if the implementation is crap, the results will be crap.

I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys!!

I'll post what I learn and let you all know if I made the purchase.

[gregmchugh]

If you bought a 1600 AH ecotrek warp core today it would consist of 8 200AH 12v ecotrek battery modules wired in parallel to form a 12v battery bank. Each ecotrek module contains 4 200AH lithium iron phosphate cells wired in series inside a box that includes a Battery Management System dedicated to those 4 lithium cells.

Not having ever encountered one of these early deliveries it could be wired differently with a different Battery Management System set up and could be wired as a 24 volt battery bank. In both cases there are 32 200AH lithium iron phosphate cells.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

From an engineering standpoint (I used to be one), 4 banks of 8 makes sense for LiFePO4 cells assuming there are eight parallel sets of 4 cells that are in series. (3.2v x 4 = 12.8v). Granted, I would have called this 8 banks of 4 cells. If the chemistry is different, e.g., Li-FeS (1.5v), then it could be (1.5v x 8 = 12v).

Regardless, the fact that the seller states that the BMS displays voltage and temperature for all 32 cells would imply there is a serious BMS system involved.

But if the implementation is crap, the results will be crap.

I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys!!

I'll post what I learn and let you all know if I made the purchase.

Are there any photos online showing the battery control and display?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Bud

robkrohn, I suggest the following

I would talk or maybe Put in Writing, not sure which one or maybe both.

The question for Roadtrek right up front?

The VIN # is__________

Is Roadttrek going to support this Roadtrek under warranty for a second, third or whatever owner???? Yes, or No? If yes with exceptions, what are the exceptions.

If yes, what dealer do you want me to use?

Given the specific vehicle how long will the work take, an estimate?

I would not touch an old etrek unless Roadtrek Fully steps up to the plate.

Bud

The Roadtrek warranty transfers to subsequent owners. Whether the warranty period is for five or six years depends on the production date.

[BBQ]

.

I know RT changed the battery supplier (or model) mid-production. I am not sure of the date or models involved. Some info is causally mentioned somewhere on the web.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I know RT changed the battery supplier (or model) mid-production. I am not sure of the date or models involved. Some info is causally mentioned somewhere on the web.

They are up to at least Version H of the Ecotrek module hardware and there are Version releases of the software in the Ecotrek module also.

They may have changed battery cell suppliers along the way and the Ecotrek modules are not produced by Roadtrek so they may have changed who they use for module production along the way also. No info on the hardware changes in each version have been released.

Roadtrek financed the development of the Ecotrek and they may have had personnel involved in the design also. It is not clear where the software development is being done. Roadtrek is continuing to evolve the design but there seems to be a pretty stable version at the moment.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I know RT changed the battery supplier (or model) mid-production. I am not sure of the date or models involved. Some info is causally mentioned somewhere on the web.

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

They are up to at least Version H of the Ecotrek module hardware and there are Version releases of the software in the Ecotrek module also.

They may have changed battery cell suppliers along the way and the Ecotrek modules are not produced by Roadtrek so they may have changed who they use for module production along the way also. No info on the hardware changes in each version have been released.

Roadtrek financed the development of the Ecotrek and they may have had personnel involved in the design also. It is not clear where the software development is being done. Roadtrek is continuing to evolve the design but there seems to be a pretty stable version at the moment.

I am talking about a major hardware change, not software/firmware revisions.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I am talking about a major hardware change, not software/firmware revisions.

There have been many hardware changes, they are at Version H of the hardware. What exactly are you saying is a major hardware change? What is a major change vs all the other changes that have occurred?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

They are up to at least Version H of the Ecotrek module hardware and there are Version releases of the software in the Ecotrek module also.

They may have changed battery cell suppliers along the way and the Ecotrek modules are not produced by Roadtrek so they may have changed who they use for module production along the way also. No info on the hardware changes in each version have been released.

Roadtrek financed the development of the Ecotrek and they may have had personnel involved in the design also. It is not clear where the software development is being done. Roadtrek is continuing to evolve the design but there seems to be a pretty stable version at the moment.

Is there any practical way in the field to determine which version of the Ecotrek hardware is installed on a coach?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Is there any practical way in the field to determine which version of the Ecotrek hardware is installed on a coach?

There should be a label on each Ecotrek module indicating the version and another label with a serial number. At least these labels have been on modules on some vans. At least no one has looked for them and not found them as far as recall.