Need some help... Re. Warp Core Package on 2015 CS

[robkrohn]

So have committed to buying this '16 model year (10k miles). I talked to RT about this RV. I gave them the VIN and they told me about what's in it and the warranty work done to it.

I learned that this was one of the first ten WarpCore packages they put together. The RV was used as a show demo and that Jim Hammel (RT Pres) personally configured it for the show. Under warranty the RV was returned to the manufacturer to upgrade the batteries/BMS.

The service manager insists that while it was an early design, it is still perfectly functional. He said whatever might go wrong will always. be covered if under 6 yr warranty.

I learned something that I did not like. It seems RT derates the full 1600 ah capacity to provide only 800 ah, claiming that for longevity they limit the useful capacity to 50% via the BMS. He said they do this with all their lithium systems. Their advertising says 80%... He. also stated that the BMS when powered on utilizes 48 amps (6amp x 8 batteries). I'm at a total loss why a BMS should use so much power (unless it was in cold weather start up mode).

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

So have committed to buying this '16 model year (10k miles). I talked to RT about this RV. I gave them the VIN and they told me about what's in it and the warranty work done to it.

I learned that this was one of the first ten WarpCore packages they put together. The RV was used as a show demo and that Jim Hammel (RT Pres) personally configured it for the show. Under warranty the RV was returned to the manufacturer to upgrade the batteries/BMS.

The service manager insists that while it was an early design, it is still perfectly functional. He said whatever might go wrong will always. be covered if under 6 yr warranty.

I learned something that I did not like. It seems RT derates the full 1600 ah capacity to provide only 800 ah, claiming that for longevity they limit the useful capacity to 50% via the BMS. He said they do this with all their lithium systems. Their advertising says 80%... He. also stated that the BMS when powered on utilizes 48 amps (6amp x 8 batteries). I'm at a total loss why a BMS should use so much power (unless it was in cold weather start up mode).

I have never heard of the 50% limit and Roadtrek touts the advantage of Lithium batteries being able to use 80-90% of capacity vs 50% for AGM. See the Ecotrek Battery Guide from the Roadtrek website in the How To section.

The current Power Budget document from the Roadtrek website How To section says 60 watts per module for BMS power and this is with the heating pads off and they have said recent modules have significantly less BMS power use. Not sure where the 6 amp figure comes from. The heating pads draw 4 amps in each module. There are several threads here discussing the excessive BMS power draw.

You might want to join the Roadtrek & Hymer Users Group on Facebook to connect with owners of Ecotrek vans.

[robkrohn]

I got much better info from RT today... All good.

This RV is a 24 volt system. The AC (undermount) runs on 24v. There is a DC-DC power supply in the engine compartment to run all 12v loads. Without the AC there is not much needed, the fridge is the biggest at 6A.

The best news is that since there is just one BMS, the total BMS load is less than 6A. The solar panels will definitely charge the batteries.

He corrected the capacity of the lithiums to be ~80% vs. the 50% I was told earlier.

I need to be less cynical and trust that RT knows something about what they do...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

I got much better info from RT today... All good.

This RV is a 24 volt system. The AC (undermount) runs on 24v. There is a DC-DC power supply in the engine compartment to run all 12v loads. Without the AC there is not much needed, the fridge is the biggest at 6A.

The best news is that since there is just one BMS, the total BMS load is less than 6A. The solar panels will definitely charge the batteries.

He corrected the capacity of the lithiums to be ~80% vs. the 50% I was told earlier.

I need to be less cynical and trust that RT knows something about what they do...

Interesting info, this early delivery is clearly a very different design than the latest 1600 amp hour Warp Core system. The single BMS and the touchscreen display are two items that seem to be preferable to the current system. A 6 amp draw on a single BMS, while still pretty high, is much less of an issue than the 60 watt BMS in every 200 AH module. If you get a chance to post info on the data displayed on the touchscreen that would be interesting, especially if there is a measure of the current battery bank capacity which is missing on newer vans.

Since it is covered by the 6 year warranty, I think it is a pretty low risk purchase from a new technology point of view.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

I got much better info from RT today... All good.

This RV is a 24 volt system. The AC (undermount) runs on 24v. ...

The first gen undermount A/C was only available for a short time.
The supplier quickly updated it to version 2.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The first gen undermount A/C was only available for a short time.
The supplier quickly updated it to version 2.

I would love to know the supplier, since I am contemplating an upgrade to an undercount A/C.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Interesting info, this early delivery is clearly a very different design than the latest 1600 amp hour Warp Core system. The single BMS and the touchscreen display are two items that seem to be preferable to the current system. A 6 amp draw on a single BMS, while still pretty high, is much less of an issue than the 60 watt BMS in every 200 AH module. If you get a chance to post info on the data displayed on the touchscreen that would be interesting, especially if there is a measure of the current battery bank capacity which is missing on newer vans.

Since it is covered by the 6 year warranty, I think it is a pretty low risk purchase from a new technology point of view.

Watt for watt, assuming the same frame size, doesn't operating the alternator at 24V cut the amperage in half permitting it to run cooler?

Whether the single BMS involved here is better than the multiple BMS system currently employed could depend on whether or not this vintage of single BMS is able to deal with a single battery failure without shutting down the entire system.

Yes, the 6 year warranty does drop the risk of the OP incurring expensive repairs. However, I seriously doubt that there were ever enough of these early warp core Etreks produced to provide significant technical support at the dealer level. I hazard the guess that if something does malfunction it is going to require bringing the coach back to the factory and RT doesn't subsidize this expense.

[gregmchugh]

Roadtrek has sent a driver to drive a van to the factory for warranty work and delivered the van back to the owner after the work was completed. This has happened more than once...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

I would love to know the supplier, since I am contemplating an upgrade to an undermount A/C.

ProAir but the specific version is exclusive to Roadtrek...

The next generation of RV Air Conditioning Systems - Roadtreking : The RV Lifestyle Blog

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Roadtrek has sent a driver to drive a van to the factory for warranty work and delivered the van back to the owner after the work was completed. This has happened more than once...

That's encouraging to hear but for openers if you live in, say, San Diego, by the time the process is completed, there is 5,000 miles more on the odometer. That's not chopped liver. I would think the more productive scenario would be to have the owner drive the coach to the factory and be given a coach to drive around and enjoy that vicinity until the repair is completed.

I wonder what threshold triggers the decision by RT to transport the coach back to the factory.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

That's encouraging to hear but for openers if you live in, say, San Diego, by the time the process is completed, there is 5,000 miles more on the odometer. That's not chopped liver. I would think the more productive scenario would be to have the owner drive the coach to the factory and be given a coach to drive around and enjoy that vicinity until the repair is completed.

I wonder what threshold triggers the decision by RT to transport the coach back to the factory.

The best option for Roadtrek service in CA is Dan Neeley who is a mobile service technician handling warranty or non-warranty repairs. He is an expert on Roadtreks including all the new technology systems. Very good reviews from all customers, very thorough, very high quality service...

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[BBQ]

Originally Posted by avanti

I would love to know the supplier, since I am contemplating an upgrade to an undercount A/C.

Do you enjoy that constant hmmm sound under your pillow?
I know it can be mesmerizing.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Do you enjoy that constant hmmm sound under your pillow?
I know it can be mesmerizing.

I would certainly enjoy it more than the current constant roar above our heads.

[robkrohn]

Well, we picked up our "Warp Core" machine and so far I am very impressed. This vehicle was one of ten that were configured with 1600ah and undermount AC. The BMS is very unique. Attached is a picture of the main monitor screen. The amps in the upper right shows negative numbers while charging. The vehicle is 24 volts. The AC runs at 24v so there are no conversion losses. I have no idea who manufactured the BMS. It has two languages: English and Chinese (a few labels are only Chinese).

I would also like to understand why new RT's use eight separate BMS's. They want users to turn them on as needed to charge or use. Why so complicated?

The only time that we turned on the noisy inverter was to watch a little TV. I don't know why a 5,000 watt unit was used.

I thought we wanted the big lithiums for AC while boon docking, however while traveling home we stopped at Bass Pro for the night and ran the Alde to stay warm.

[BBQ]

.

Good to hear you have things sorted out.

Best of luck.

Enjoy!

[gregmchugh]

The touch screen display is probably a generic display from Samkoon similar to this and the Chinese characters are something from the display controller not from the BMS. There are manuals on the web for these displays describing how the connected BMS would setup and control the display.

3.5 inch HMI touch Screen Samkoon SA-3.5A with programming cable and software | eBay

[robkrohn]

You are definitely correct re. the brand of the display device. Since some of the BMS related labels are in Chinese, I still suspect the BMS is Chinese...But who?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by robkrohn

You are definitely correct re. the brand of the display device. Since some of the BMS related labels are in Chinese, I still suspect the BMS is Chinese...But who?

I doubt that the BMS is any standard Chinese product but I suppose it is possible on these early models. Roadtrek has claimed that the Ecotrek system was funded by them and designed specifically for their use. How much direct involvement Roadtrek employees have had in the hardware and software development is something I don't know. The current Ecotrek 200 AH battery modules with integrated BMS in each module appear to be a Roadtrek specific design and manufactured in Canada. They no longer have the display you have as an option in the vans but there is test equipment used by dealer technicians for diagnosing Ecotrek systems.

[avanti]

Those touch screens are known in the industrial control world as "HMI"s (stands for human-machine interface). They are a generic component and there are dozens of them available, as a Google search will quickly show. "Samkoon" is just one popular brand. The HMI modules are certainly Chinese. Does not necessarily mean that the entire BMS is, one way or the other.

[gregmchugh]

If you want the details on the Samkoon HMI, here is the 400 page manual...

http://p-avt.ru/Files/samkoon-panel/...ser_manual.pdf