Multiplex Wiring - Pros & Cons

[B Eventually]

@ClassB4Me That’s got to be a huge disappointment. At least you were not on the road when the hillside gave way.

@Jostalli I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts on the Era’s new hidden positive acting latches. ClassB4Me’s dealer-supplied list of upgrades didn’t mention the water lines. I wonder if they made any further effort to protect them from the cold.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Only the actual factory reps are worth talking to. I'm sure if you can catch up with Jim Hammill, he'll tell you some interesting lies. It would be funny to hear his take on their latest troubles.

Salesmen are worthless for the most part, as you'll know more about their product than they do.

I'll most likely be walking right on past the Roadtreks. I've been through their latest with a fine toothed comb and there is nothing worth copying. At this point I sort of feel bad for Jim and the gang. I'm sure their intentions are good but the ship is definitely sinking.

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Only thing I'd like to see added would be a compressor fridge and not the 3 way. Other than that, a really compelling offering.

How difficult is an aftermarket compressor fridge swap? To my unhandy-mind it seems like it'd be relatively straight forward. The 12 and 120 volt is already there. The main issue would be safely capping the propane line and securely mounting the new fridge.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Transit

How difficult is an aftermarket compressor fridge swap? To my unhandy-mind it seems like it'd be relatively straight forward. The 12 and 120 volt is already there. The main issue would be safely capping the propane line and securely mounting the new fridge.

Except you'd still have those huge, ugly vents on the side of your brand new van.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

I'll most likely be walking right on past the Roadtreks. I've been through their latest with a fine toothed comb and there is nothing worth copying. At this point I sort of feel bad for Jim and the gang. I'm sure their intentions are good but the ship is definitely sinking.

You know, if his attitude was different, I'd agree with you. Instead, he's always been that their tech is superior and other brands are crap. He's slammed Advanced RV on numerous occasions. He's made his bed as far as I'm concerned. The only people I feel sad for are his unwitting customers.

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Except you'd still have those huge, ugly vents on the side of your brand new van.

Definitely. But those might be useful if/when it comes time to sell or trade in the vehicle. They might also be useful for the cell booster's antenna cable.

Winnebago doesn't make modifications for people, right? Are design mods completely verboten or would be they be willing to build an RV without the fridge vents and without the 3-way fridge? Adding a compressor fridge after accepting delivery shouldn't be too difficult if there's no propane to cap and vents to reinsulate.

[wincrasher]

Once in a while you'll hear that they do a small change. Things like an extra shelf, or to substitute an item from one color scheme to another. I've not heard of them doing something major like eliminating the vents.

There also some postings that the stuff they agreed to do, even small, were screwed up. I think that speaks to them being a big company with set ways of doing things. Changing anything can really upset the apple cart.

[bobojay]

WGO won't normally do major changes from the normal assembly line items and "holes".
In the case of the Fit RV's Travato, I'd sure like to know what James & Stef said/did to get them to do the changes they had done besides the publicity of them showing and telling about the build on their website and YouTube channel.
I know they'll do changes for wheelchairs etc in their class C's. but at big $$$.

Transit, most folks that want extras added to their units have their dealer do it, but then you have to have a trustworthy, well known to have done quality work, (like Lichtsinn in Iowa), for their customers. I won't say most, but a lot of RV dealer's service departments are just a giant pot luck on whether it's done correctly or not, and could care less

[wincrasher]

I was hoping when I met Russ Garfin at the Hershey show and told him about my order, he'd offer to do some customizing for me, but no dice.

[booster]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Except you'd still have those huge, ugly vents on the side of your brand new van.

Looks aside, having the vents isn't all bad as they keep the frig heat out of the van, which can be a big deal at 95 degrees.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

Looks aside, having the vents isn't all bad as they keep the frig heat out of the van, which can be a big deal at 95 degrees.

You said it all in "looks aside." Those vents would aid a compressor refrigerator at 95 degrees but who would want to have a B with ugly vents 100% of the time for a 1% of the time solution that can be solved efficiently other ways with proper design?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

I'll be at the show tomorrow. But, I'm going to analyze build materials, techniques, fixtures, brackets, hinges, etc.

I have been to these shows enough to know to refrain from engaging any of the reps.

I think the best bang for your buck is to attend an Advanced RV Advanced Fest. They have two days of no sales talk seminars mostly on general RVing and tech issues. Last year they had James and Steph of FitRV there, Mercedes reps, VB Air Suspension, Silverleaf, Alcoa Alloy wheels and other partners. They have their shop open with several Bs currently under construction so you can see everything in detail. Last May they had the yet to be converted super high roof and 4x4 Sprinters there to be examined. They have displays set up showing most of their systems. Their whole staff is there to talk to you. They are constantly evaluating systems and products and working with customer input. No "proprietary" secrets.

I guess the sales pitch is after attending you will grimace at the idea of the dealer network system and the take it or leave it choices of the other converters. The downside of course is most will not accept the cost and time wait vs the lesser. However, for a Do it your selfer the information would be way more valuable than the dealer RV shows unless you are shopping for off the shelf Bs.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You said it all in "looks aside." Those vents would aid a compressor refrigerator at 95 degrees but who would want to have a B with ugly vents 100% of the time for a 1% of the time solution that can be solved efficiently other ways with proper design?

That's is exactly why I said, looks aside , as I know there are folks that worry about that. With a TV antenna, solar, vent fan, sewer vent, 3 windows on the the roof, a spare on the back, etc, we are a camper, so the vents are of essentially no worry to us and having the heat go outside is a plus. "Proper" design is all in the eye of the beholder.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

That's is exactly why I said, looks aside , as I know there are folks that worry about that. With a TV antenna, solar, vent fan, sewer vent, 3 windows on the the roof, a spare on the back, etc, we are a camper, so the vents are of essentially no worry to us and having the heat go outside is a plus. "Proper" design is all in the eye of the beholder.

We have none of those camper van attributes and look more like an airport shuttle than an RV. I prefer that. Anyway we camp mostly spring and fall so encounter mostly cool mornings. It would have to get down below 40 before we would run our heater. That's our preference. Last month we went back to Advanced RV to get some complimentary upgrades. One was to improve the efficiency of the compressor fridge. We had inside floor to ceiling venting already. They improved it with more exterior wall insulation and fans to pull the air. It worked. Also, a side benefit I checked this morning. The outside air temperature was 43 degrees and inside was 52 with 5 window vents open. I doubt our cat produced that heat. Air conditioner afficionadles might not like that but we have yet to run our air conditioner over 24,000 miles and 140 days on the road in 34 states and 6 provinces. If I ever need it I have a 15,000 BTU AC. I think I am covered. I'll take the 100% no vent look.

[wincrasher]

I'm sure it's not just your refrigerator putting out heat - water heater, electronics, two humans, etc.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I'm sure it's not just your refrigerator putting out heat - water heater, electronics, two humans, etc.

Water heater is part of the Espar diesel-fired Heat exchange system. It stays off until we need it. There is no tank. None of that was on. The two humans were in Insulated sleeping bags as was the cat always on my left ankle. I'm pretty sure the inside/outside temperature differential is greater now with the fridge upgrade but I never wrote down those numbers before. It just seems more noticeable now.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I think the best bang for your buck is to attend an Advanced RV Advanced Fest. They have two days of no sales talk seminars mostly on general RVing and tech issues. Last year they had James and Steph of FitRV there, Mercedes reps, VB Air Suspension, Silverleaf, Alcoa Alloy wheels and other partners. They have their shop open with several Bs currently under construction so you can see everything in detail. Last May they had the yet to be converted super high roof and 4x4 Sprinters there to be examined. They have displays set up showing most of their systems. Their whole staff is there to talk to you. They are constantly evaluating systems and products and working with customer input. No "proprietary" secrets.

I guess the sales pitch is after attending you will grimace at the idea of the dealer network system and the take it or leave it choices of the other converters. The downside of course is most will not accept the cost and time wait vs the lesser. However, for a Do it your selfer the information would be way more valuable than the dealer RV shows unless you are shopping for off the shelf Bs.

I attended this past spring and agree that the ARV Fest was well worth the price, even if you don't plan to buy one of their units.