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02-16-2017, 03:37 PM
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#1
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 554
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Lithium Titanate Battery
For folks who want the current high tech battery, that will operate -22f and 20,000 cycles. request the use of these type of batteries in your pack:
Lithium Batteries
Double the price of a standard lithium cell but will last many times longer and operate in very cold conditions.
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02-16-2017, 04:54 PM
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#2
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 12,455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoman
For folks who want the current high tech battery, that will operate -22f and 20,000 cycles. request the use of these type of batteries in your pack:
Lithium Batteries
Double the price of a standard lithium cell but will last many times longer and operate in very cold conditions.
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Interesting, many of us have expected the shortcomings of the current lithium batteries to push the tech to something better, and this may be one of them. I am sure there is also more to come.
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02-16-2017, 05:56 PM
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#3
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
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.
Hundreds of universities around the world are in this battery race.
We can expect dramatic improvements, both in performance and price, to be announced on a regular basis.
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02-16-2017, 06:12 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,428
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Lithium Titanate is actually a pretty old technology. In addition to their relative longevity, another big advantage is that they can accept very high charge currents.
However, in addition to cost, the big disadvantage is a pretty low specific energy (65Wh/kg)--much lower than LiFePO4..
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
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02-18-2017, 08:27 PM
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#5
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ
.
Hundreds of universities around the world are in this battery race.
We can expect dramatic improvements, both in performance and price, to be announced on a regular basis.
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No question that this is the trajectory, but I think that there are some safety issues that will need to be concomitantly addressed. What are the black swan potential consequences of a battery in thermal runaway when it has the power density approaching a hand grenade?
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02-18-2017, 09:19 PM
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#6
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
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02-19-2017, 12:18 AM
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#7
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 554
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Each and every one of the cells in their packs are indiviually fused.
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02-19-2017, 02:13 AM
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#8
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoman
Each and every one of the cells in their packs are indiviually fused.
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Did you read the link? Whatever the virtue of the fuses, they didn't much help here. The driver died from the impact of the collision itself. The passenger death was not from the collision impact. He apparently survived the initial impact but his death was the result of impact damage that made the lithium battery explode and set the vehicle afire.
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02-19-2017, 01:26 PM
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#9
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 554
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I'm fine with lithium since I don't plan to drink and drive into trees at high speeds. You can't really engineer safety to withstand drunk drivers.
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02-19-2017, 09:00 PM
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#10
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoman
I'm fine with lithium since I don't plan to drink and drive into trees at high speeds. You can't really engineer safety to withstand drunk drivers.
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I'm with you in support of lithium technology but not at the expense of denying the somber flip side: the controlled release of energy from very high density power sources has its obvious advantage, but if it becomes uncontrolled, for whatever the reason, you may have your whole day ruined.
Since smelling bad has to be preferred to smelling cooked, my next set of RV lithium batteries will include the grey water sprinkler option.
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02-19-2017, 09:09 PM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,428
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If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
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Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
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02-19-2017, 09:17 PM
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#12
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 12,455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti
If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
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Remember when they were pushing flywheel powered buses. Huge flywheels spinning at ungodly rates with respinning drives built in at the bus stops. Can you say "grenade"?
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02-19-2017, 10:03 PM
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#13
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti
If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
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We optimizing our odds of survival by first quantifying the ratio between risk and reward for some endeavor or practice followed by checking the "pucker" effect to determine the level of comfort or discomfort we experience contemplating that ratio.
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02-19-2017, 10:48 PM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388
We optimizing our odds of survival by first quantifying the ratio between risk and reward for some endeavor or practice followed by checking the "pucker" effect to determine the level of comfort or discomfort we experience contemplating that ratio.
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Except we don't seem to be very good at the former. E.g., corporations routinely forbid senior officers from traveling in the same incredibly-safe airplanes, but are perfectly OK with them riding in the same obscenely-dangerous cars. I think there is a lot more pucker going on than quantifying.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
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02-19-2017, 10:56 PM
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#15
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 554
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My main concern with the 250lb 900 ah battery pack in my van was it smashing me in a wreck. Its in a aluminum box, bolted to the floor with other bracing. I insulated it, it has a high and low temperature alarm, high and low voltage alarm and cutout, three vent fans and a heater all temp controlled and a smoke alarm to top it off.
I'm not worried.
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02-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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#16
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoman
My main concern with the 250lb 900 ah battery pack in my van was it smashing me in a wreck. Its in a aluminum box, bolted to the floor with other bracing. I insulated it, it has a high and low temperature alarm, high and low voltage alarm and cutout, three vent fans and a heater all temp controlled and a smoke alarm to top it off.
I'm not worried.
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No question, you've got everything accounted for....except Murphy's law.
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02-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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#17
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Greer, South Carolina
Posts: 2,611
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When you can make the occupants 100% safe from the dangers of gasoline, then get back to me about my batteries. Until then, I'm fine with them.
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03-07-2017, 01:51 AM
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#19
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Greer, South Carolina
Posts: 2,611
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must we explain, once again, that the lithium batteries that have thermal runaway are the lipos? The chemistries are different and have different characteristics.
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03-07-2017, 02:56 PM
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#20
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
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