Lithium on the Cheap

[booster]

An interesting thing is that Lifeline mentions similar shortening of life with their AGMs. We will definitely be doing some ventilating to at least try to keep them close to ambient.

I think ours will be hottest when driving, as they will be right behind the rear axle which gets pretty hot (over 150*F) and next to the exhaust pipe.

I think a duct from the non exhaust side and a vent out the back of the battery area should create some good passive flow. Doesn't do much for you if you park over 120* asphalt, though.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by mojoman

I'm installing this in my battery cabinet to address any heat:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage

I am doing something similar. One fan on each side of the enclosure to circulate air.

[wincrasher]

Which do you think to use? Not sure it would much matter between Flooded and AGM. Doubt it would ever make it to "float", but not sure that would matter either.

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[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

All batteries lose capacity over time. I feel I have enough capacity at 800ah to still bridge that loss with little change, if any, in what I do, at least in my anticipated ownership time. I actually don't see myself owning my ARV for 10 years. Even if I stay healthy and active there will be a lot newer and better gnawing on me.

Davydd-sometimes you scare me=newer and better gnawing at me-lol

[booster]

Yep, only difference is .2v on absorption, which may or may not be against the AGM recommendations. Some actually want you that high. Not a real big deal, in most cases, but you may want to look up the charging recommendations for your batteries.

The absorption time is very short for getting batteries full (either wet or AGM) but also will be keeping it in absorption longer than optimum when your start the day full batteries , like when coming off shore power. This is typical with the timer only based chargers and charge controllers, as they try to hit a compromise on over or under charging and a best guess on battery bank size. The only fix for that is to change controller.

When driving the controller will see the higher voltage of the alternator and get help holding its own voltage up if it is set higher than the alternator, so will probably get to float more often than you think then, and also if the batteries are full coming off of the shore charger.

[wincrasher]

I'm asking about using this panel on Lithiums. Battery spec says 14.4 to 14.6 volts.

[booster]

I think that it would depend on the BMS and how they handle things, because you wouldn't want to have either voltage absorption or float on them when full, per most folks. Of course, the same would apply when driving or on shore power. Charger selections seem to be one of the things that really haven't been settled for lithium.

[Davydd]

I look at it this way. 10 years ago most all B converters were offering one wet-cell lead acid battery with uncontrolled charging. In 10 years we are in the process of zooming past AGM innovation in Bs and we have just scratched lithium ion. Who can predict another 10 years from now? I bet the odds it could be exciting in developments for Class Bs. If I stick with the Sprinter, as early as 2018 there could be some serious lust. That is about when we will know about their re-designed Sprinter that will be manufactured in the USA. Besides that, I will most likely develop new desires for improvements as I did with my two previous Bs. It's ingrained in me. In my working career, my jobs had always been about change.

[markopolo]

Ten years ago the change had already begun. My '04 RT had an inverter and 3 stage charging and option for more than one battery. It had a small solar panel too but that was added, not from the factory.

Back then money seemed to matter. Wet cells offered value.

No one would have spent $10,000 or $20,000 on batteries and solar.

I think people liked the camping part of using a camper van back then. Simple tasks were fun and different than doing it at home.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Ten years ago the change had already begun. My '04 RT had an inverter and 3 stage charging and option for more than one battery. It had a small solar panel too but that was added, not from the factory.

Back then money seemed to matter. Wet cells offered value.

No one would have spent $10,000 or $20,000 on batteries and solar.

I think people liked the camping part of using a camper van back then. Simple tasks were fun and different than doing it at home.

X2 (at least) Best performance at the best value, I think, is still important to many, but the high end units seem to be dwarfing that discussion a bit. The fact that Winnebago is rapidly gaining market share proves that value still counts with a lot of people.

When you look at the tenters and up through the small trailers like popups, you don't see folks complaining about doing the camping tasks, as it is part of the experience, and although most of us aren't that basic, we like the camping parts.

[avanti]

If we are talking a 10 year horizon, I am pretty sure that the biggest change will have to do with vehicle intelligence and self-driving capabilities. We have passed the inflection point on that particular curve--things are going to evolve very rapidly from now on.

In 10 years, will we be sitting in the rear lounge sipping tea while careening down the Interstate? Probably not quite, but I wouldn't be too surprised if I were wrong on that.

At any rate, I don't think becoming "too old to drive" is going to be an issue much longer.

[AK49er]

Like I have said in the past, we are tent camping with a hard sided tent. We do things that probably are a little different than most folks in regards to "getting away". We still enjoy the way we do things, but I guess that could change someday. I try to read every post on here even though it has nothing to do with the way we do things, just for a little knowledge I guess, and humor! Things are changing everyday in the B world aren't they?

[BobB]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I think people liked the camping part of using a camper van back then. Simple tasks were fun and different than doing it at home.

The people I run in still do, because it is affordable.

Spent 2 weeks on Ocracoke in June (NPS campground) - no hookups at all. 140 sites total/4 sections/each section had 2-4 cold showers plus M/W bathrooms. Occupancy about 25% to 80% during that time. A few big rigs, some class B's, small Cs, but an amazing number of tents/popups + families. Sand, sand burrs, some no-see-ums, mosquitoes, green-heads, lots of sun. Never heard anyone wish they were not there.

Rumor has it that NPS will install hot showers this summer - many worry it will ruin the place (and will the price go up?)

[Boxster1971]

Dometic in the UK is now offering a lithium battery. It's called e-Store and comes in 100 AH modules. Don't know yet if you can get it in the USA.

http://www.dometic.co.uk/product/dometic-estore/

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Dometic in the UK is now offering a lithium battery. It's called e-Store and comes in 100 AH modules. Don't know yet if you can get it in the USA.

http://www.dometic.co.uk/product/dometic-estore/

I don't know what the "Dometic eCore" is but did you notice this:

"Charging Temperature
-10 °C to +55 °C (< 0°C charging at max. 5 A, > 0°C charging at max. 40 A)"

[wincrasher]

Well, I did confirm that my wiring from the alternator to the coach battery is 1 AWG. I think that is more than adequate to handle up to 100 A. The guides say 211 amp chassis wiring max, 119 amps power transmission max.

The wiring from the battery charger to the battery is 6 AWG, so it's best to stick to the 45 amp size charger.

Come to find out, my electrical engineer (guy I'm working with "at work") used to work for a major battery manufacturer. I've been reviewing my plans with him. He was almost dismissive of my trepidation of putting this project together. The "real world" of electrical is alot more forgiving that the tables and charts in his view.

[markopolo]

Wow, 1 AWG. I'm impressed. That's way better than I would have guessed.

Was it alternator to isolator then isolator to house batteries?

Isolator rating would be good to know.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Wow, 1 AWG. I'm impressed. That's way better than I would have guessed.

Was it alternator to isolator then isolator to house batteries?

Isolator rating would be good to know.

Yeah, I was surprised too. I can find any ratings/sizings on the disconnect or the combiner. Drawings are few and with little information. None of the wiring sizes are on them.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_189041.pdf

[booster]

On the Winnebago drawing, the piece on the left in the component location section looks to be a standard starter type 12v relay, which would be a coil type with no separator functions based on charge voltage either way. I think they would just control it off of the engine running signal of the van. It would give no voltage drop to speak of, but would use some power for the coil. The component on the right looks like the 12v alternate acting relay for the coach power.

I would think the starter relay would be at least 100 amps, probably even 200.

[booster]

Trombetta part# 936-1215-011-21 from another forum

300 amps continuous rating-100% duty rating golf cart relay.

Not a separator or isolator