Lifeline Obsolete?

[Bud]

Is something like a Lifeline battery now obsolete?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c6A1THDaeU

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by Bud

Is something like a Lifeline battery now obsolete?:

Bud,

Didn't watch the video but why would you make such a Statement, after all Lifeline are the #1 Rated Battery Supplier of AGMs, most preferred supplier to the US Military, etc.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Bud,

Didn't watch the video but why would you make such a Statement, after all Lifeline are the #1 Rated Battery Supplier of AGMs, most preferred supplier to the US Military, etc.

There is a hint in the 'still'. I don't know the answer as it seems that it is very application dependent. But for B's, rv's that boon dock and need some amp hours over time, it appears that very expensive agm's are coming to an end.

Good to see you back.

Bud

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Bud

But for B's, rv's that boon dock and need some amp hours over time, it appears that very expensive agm's are coming to an end.

Cheap AGM's, on the other hand, might still have a place in the equation for a while yet.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by @Michael

Cheap AGM's, on the other hand, might still have a place in the equation for a while yet.

Agree, I chose inexpensive, cheap agm's a month ago, $174 each delivered. Why? They will probably outlive me! And I might buy a new B.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Lifeline are the #1 Rated Battery Supplier of AGMs, most preferred supplier to the US Military, etc.

Can you document either of these claims?
Rated by whom?

[mumkin]

Whether or not AGMs are obsolete in RVs depends on one's opinion, and how one uses their rig. I would have zero use for lithiums, and will stick to AGMs... whichever brand. They are cheaper, more user friendly, and now with solar, you don't even have to think about them.

[MsNomer]

We recently switched from Lifeline AGM to lithium. Holy Moley. What a refreshing difference!! I would never want to go back.

[Davydd]

I’ve had lithium ion batteries in my Class B’s for 7 years now. You can have more amp hours in less space and weight that AGMs can’t reach in a small Class B. You do need a second alternator to recharge with so much amp hour capacity and then if you do, solar makes little sense. As again roof real estate can’t accommodate enough solar to make any difference that a second alternator driving for 15 minutes can do at a rate of over 270ah of charging. That’s greater than shore power, Onan generators or chassis alternator. charging are capable of. Getting rid of an Onan generator is a plus. Lithium ion will soon dominate until another battery system comes along. Especially if boondocking becomes the boon of van life.

[rowiebowie]

Lithium is the current and future. The upgrade to lithium is pricey, but worth it if you can afford it. However, it is way too costly from the OEM's.

If you consider that they save the cost of the "old" components they no longer install (AGM batteries, gas fridge, OEM Inverter/Chargers) and they only have to "pay the difference" for lithium batteries and compatible components, it should only charge a grand or two at most for a modest 200Ah lithium set up like mine.

However, since I footed the bill to remove old components and then buy all new, it was almost $4000. Still a bargain compared to the $10K premium charged a few years ago for a new lithium class b. They charge $20K for the bigger battery packs which are ridiculously over-priced.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Lithium is the current and future. The upgrade to lithium is pricey, but worth it if you can afford it. However, it is way too costly from the OEM's.

If you consider that they save the cost of the "old" components they no longer install (AGM batteries, gas fridge, OEM Inverter/Chargers) and they only have to "pay the difference" for lithium batteries and compatible components, it should only charge a grand or two at most for a modest 200Ah lithium set up like mine.

However, since I footed the bill to remove old components and then buy all new, it was almost $4000. Still a bargain compared to the $10K premium charged a few years ago for a new lithium class b. They charge $20K for the bigger battery packs which are ridiculously over-priced.

You guys are technically the Experts.

It would be great if Booster, Dayvdd & George RA could offer their opinions but in the meantime, I am going to talk to the Horse's Mouth, at Lifeline & get some clarity - and I do remember Bud had an occasional penchant for agitating comments in the past (all in good humour).

I purchase Lifeline AGMs because I trust them 1000%.

Yes the charging profile & the weight are drawbacks however they outperform my electrical needs, they are not going to catch fire & I will get at least 7 years out of each battery.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

We recently switched from Lifeline AGM to lithium. Holy Moley. What a refreshing difference!! I would never want to go back.

Please share your refreshing experience.

[themexicandoctor]

Lifeline is FOREVER ...

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Please share your refreshing experience.

100% has become an irrelevant number.

We fit 300Ah lithium in the space of 200Ah Lifeline.

Lithium gulp electrons almost all the way to full. As much as a practical issue, this was emotional for me. Dang it, if the electrons are available and the batteries need them, I don’t want them wasted because the batteries are sipping daintily. Now, “unused power” = 0.

We use the microwave every day. Even at 20% SOC, lithium drawdown voltage is almost as much as full AGM voltage. By 70% SOC, AGM was struggling.

Because of the microwave, we could only the top 30% or so of the AGM versus about 90% of the lithium. So we increased our effective capacity more than four-fold. We have added a 22-qt freezer maintaining -4°F and can still boondock 3 days with no sun.

Did I say 100% is now irrelevant? Well, not really. Now I monitor to minimize the time spent at 100%. How refreshing!

[Bud]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Lifeline is FOREVER ...

Even Lifeline is moving on:

https://lifelinebatteries.com/produc.../ll-12v100-27/

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by Bud

Even Lifeline is moving on:

https://lifelinebatteries.com/produc.../ll-12v100-27/

It is interesting that the specs in this link recommend a charge current for the 100ah battery of only 20a. I think Battleborn recommends 50a for its 100ah battery. Doesn't charging at .2C defeat one of the main advantages of LifePO4?

[MsNomer]

No. Our SOK's have a recommend charge range 20-50A. We are charging 300Ah at 40A, as recommended for our alternator. Light years better than AGM.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

No. Our SOK's have a recommend charge range 20-50A. We are charging 300Ah at 40A, as recommended for our alternator. Light years better than AGM.

It seems the Lifeline is 20-100A.

[MsNomer]

Most of us will be more limited by our charging source than our batteries. The Lifeline AGM had some insane theoretical charging ability (500A IIRC?), but that would have been at a low SOC we never got to because of the voltage drop and what vehicle can charge at 500A—1,000A for two?

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by Bud

It seems the Lifeline is 20-100A.

The link says that 20A is "recommended" and 100A is "maximum." I am guessing that the reason for the low recommendation is that charging at 100A reduces the life of the battery (less charge cycles). I was just wondering how significant of a factor that is.