Hymer's new WATT fuel cell system

[Gemlake]

See a demonstration video of Hymer's new fuel cell system here:
https://youtu.be/naQk7RrWUdI

I'm curious what board members think of this. I'm not an expert by any means, but the idea of another complex system that takes up space and weight, requires propane, and at best only "assists" Ecotrek, does not seem very appealing.

[markopolo]

I didn't look at the video but did find this: https://www.wattfuelcell.com/portabl...watt-imperium/ - is that it?

Maybe Hymer is a customer.

I like the specs and that the fuel is propane. The price of it will make it or break it.

Lots of B vans seem to have small propane tanks though so might have to fill up fairly frequently. It would be nice for my Class A with its huge propane tank.


edit: It may have been around for awhile (maybe in development). I saw posts on a forum dating back to 2016.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Gemlake

See a demonstration video of Hymer's new fuel cell system here:
https://youtu.be/naQk7RrWUdI

I'm curious what board members think of this. I'm not an expert by any means, but the idea of another complex system that takes up space and weight, requires propane, and at best only "assists" Ecotrek, does not seem very appealing.

Fuel Cell
Propane Tank
Solar Cells
Batteries

(no generator or 2nd alternator)

Still sounds expensive but will be very quiet

[avanti]

Been watching these guys for awhile now. If it is real, I think it is a game changer, at any reasonable price. The problem has been poisoning of the cell when used with impure fuel sources, such as commercial propane. If these units have reasonable lifetimes, then I am excited.

[Gemlake]

Yes, WATT is the company. Here is a press release about the project with Hymer (from March):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300609304.html

Hymer has introduced fuel cell technology before, in the European market.

[LosAngeles]

I guess time will tell.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Gemlake

Hymer has introduced fuel cell technology before, in the European market.

Yes, but as far as I know, it was only the EFOY system that required special proprietary, expensive, hard-to-find fuel canisters.

The thing about WATT is that they claim commercial-quality propane, which would be huge.

[Davidy52]

I saw a YouTube video this morning with someone from Roadtrek being interviewed, who said that there will be units on sale with the WATT system at the Pomona RV show in October. Seems to me that if the price is reasonable, the WATT system coupled with solar, will make the ideal boondocking vehicle.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davidy52

I saw a YouTube video this morning with someone from Roadtrek being interviewed, who said that there will be units on sale with the WATT system at the Pomona RV show in October. Seems to me that if the price is reasonable, the WATT system coupled with solar, will make the ideal boondocking vehicle.

the efoy system they tried to introduce 4 years ago was BIG Bucks.

[markopolo]

I saw a post on Airforums from 2016 - someone said they inquired about the price and was $10K to $15K. Hopefully that's not what it is.

$2K would be high if comparing to a small Honda or Yamaha generator with much higher output but still attractive enough.

[avanti]

The Efoy units are $3-6K, depending on capacity. If WATT is similar, I am betting there would be plenty of early-adopter interest.

IMO, this is a whole different ballgame than any ICE generator. Running a genset is an event, and not a pleasant one. A fuel cell sits silently in invisibly in its place and constantly produces power--just like a solar panel. Totally automatic and out of mind. 500 watts continuous would keep a great many of us permanently happy, with no need for the hassles of lithium batteries. The big question is what kind of warranty they offer on the cell.

I may end up happy that I never pulled my nearly-redundant propane tank

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by avanti

The Efoy units are $3-6K, depending on capacity. If WATT is similar, I am betting there would be plenty of early-adopter interest.

IMO, this is a whole different ballgame than any ICE generator. Running a genset is an event, and not a pleasant one.
I may end up happy that I never pulled my nearly-redundant propane tank

Other than less noise, please explain (for us slower folks) why this is a gamechanger.

-- $2K-$4K increase over a propane generator
-- Still need propane / possibly larger tank
-- Unclear service network

I can imagine the biggest benefit is you can run house services at parks during 'quiet hours'

[Mfturner]

Is there any mention of altitude restrictions? I thought I recalled something limiting the Efoy system here in CO, I don't remember what it was other than the expensive fuel.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Other than less noise, please explain (for us slower folks) why this is a gamechanger.

-- $2K-$4K increase over a propane generator
-- Still need propane / possibly larger tank
-- Unclear service network

I can imagine the biggest benefit is you can run house services at parks during 'quiet hours'

Well, with my current propane tank, this unit can produce more than 40 amps continuously for more than 100 hours. That is five days, assuming continuous operation and zero solar. With my current 440aH batteries, I can run my A/C from battery for 2 hours or so in the evening. With this unit, this time would almost doubled. If I am parked somewhere (say, the parking lot of the ferry to Isle Royal), I could leave my compressor refrigerator running unattended for well over a month without fear of cloudy days.

If I run my battery down to 50% every day (and ignoring solar, and driving not at all), I could recover that in 5.5 hours. This means that I can boondock for 18 days of zero sunlight and without ever starting the Sprinter. Of course, I would at least have to drive to the dump station, so the second engine generator would add to this. All of this without the expense or hassles of lithium.

This is all completely passive. I never run our current genset simply because the noise and hassle is totally unacceptable to us. I don't know why I haven't pulled it out.

Sounds like a game changer to me.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by avanti

If I run my battery down to 50% every day (and ignoring solar, and driving not at all), I could recover that in 5.5 hours. This means that I can boondock for 18 days of zero sunlight and without ever starting the Sprinter. Of course, I would at least have to drive to the dump station, so the second engine generator would add to this. All of this without the expense or hassles of lithium.

This is all completely passive. I never run our current genset simply because the noise and hassle is totally unacceptable to us. I don't know why I haven't pulled it out.

Sounds like a game changer to me.

The reason I asked is because the guy in the video spoke of batteries in addition to everything else. I'm trying to get a sense of what components would be part of a fuel cell solution and what components would go away.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

The reason I asked is because the guy in the video spoke of batteries in addition to everything else. I'm trying to get a sense of what components would be part of a fuel cell solution and what components would go away.

It is the genset that goes away. Oh, and these units weight 1/3 of an Onan 2400.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by avanti

It is the genset that goes away. Oh, and these units weight 1/3 of an Onan 2400.

Yes and about 1/5 the continuous power at 500 watts. Specs here...
https://www.wattfuelcell.com/portabl...watt-imperium/

Also the photo shown in the PRNewswire site seems to show the fuel cell right in the center of area under rear bench seat. Since this unit generates heat you might not be able to store stuff around the fuel cell unit. The photo inserted below.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Yes and about 1/5 the continuous power at 500 watts. Specs here...
https://www.wattfuelcell.com/portabl...watt-imperium/

Also the photo shown in the PRNewswire site seems to show the fuel cell right in the center of area under rear bench seat. Since this unit generates heat you might not be able to store stuff around the fuel cell unit. The photo inserted below.

A picture in-scale speaks volumes

[avanti]

It is a bit smaller than an Onan, and similar dimensions--probably not a coincidence. If I ever got one, I would certainly put it underneath in place of the genset. I don't know if they are weatherproof, but that can be dealt with.

[GeorgeRa]

The technology described in the attached URL is most likely used in Watts fuel cells, direct use of hydrocarbon as fuel without an external conversion to hydrogen. It uses metal catalyst to do this conversion. Biggest issue in my view would be contamination, catalysts can be poisoned easily and they can’t be repaired. https://phys.org/news/2017-07-hydroc...fficiency.html

Watts purchased this company https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...burgh-Electric 4 years ago.

I can clearly understand the attractiveness of fuel cells, but this effort of making fuel cell technology successful has a long history, a very long history. Old one was bad but this one is good, and over, and over again. I am not sorry to sound pessimistic, I am pessimistic.