Hymer's new WATT fuel cell system

[booster]

So at 10 hrs a day, you only get 100 days of use with 417ah of power generated per day. That is barely 4 hrs of compressor on AC, so that just is not going to cut it. To get to the 800ah of use most would consider the minimum in hot weather, you would need 20 hrs of running the cell, and only get 50 days out of it.



This will not be practical for large power users. Maybe for those of us that only use 60-70ah per day, depending on the cell costs.

[Maui Sunset]

Originally Posted by booster

So at 10 hrs a day, you only get 100 days of use with 417ah of power generated per day. That is barely 4 hrs of compressor on AC, so that just is not going to cut it. To get to the 800ah of use most would consider the minimum in hot weather, you would need 20 hrs of running the cell, and only get 50 days out of it.



This will not be practical for large power users. Maybe for those of us that only use 60-70ah per day, depending on the cell costs.

The "Green" movement has been thrashing around for 30+ years
wind
solar
fuel cells

none of which can come close to carbon-based fuels
in terms of cost

A fuel-cell at 45 dB has a place in the market
even if it's much more expensive than what it is replacing
but it has to work and there has to be a cost that is reasonable

so far the fuel-cell has failed to make it viable
but RoadTrek thinks it is a winner
only time will tell

[booster]

It will be VERY interesting to see if Roadtrek will cherry pick and distorts the specs for the fuel cells in real world use like they did with the etrek and lithium systems.


We all (well many do) remember the claim of running the AC 9hrs on batteries and recharging the 800ah of AGM batteries in 20 minutes off the engine generator that was claimed for the etrek.

[Maui Sunset]

Originally Posted by booster

It will be VERY interesting to see if Roadtrek will cherry pick and distorts the specs for the fuel cells in real world use like they did with the etrek and lithium systems.


We all (well many do) remember the claim of running the AC 9hrs on batteries and recharging the 800ah of AGM batteries in 20 minutes off the engine generator that was claimed for the etrek.

That could be
but that 6-year warranty has to cover this.
RoadTrek is closed today because of Columbus Day so I can't verify
but as far as I can see that warranty covers EVERYTHING they add to the
chassis except for AGM batteries
which the manufacturer covers for some period of time

My guess is that RoadTrek does not cover AGM batteries
because the owner uses the batteries below the 50% threshold
which cuts the 500 recharge cycle to a fraction of that

[booster]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

That could be
but that 6-year warranty has to cover this.
RoadTrek is closed today because of Columbus Day so I can't verify
but as far as I can see that warranty covers EVERYTHING they add to the
chassis except for AGM batteries
which the manufacturer covers for some period of time

There is no warranty for performance on most products, especially RVs, so I seriously doubt Roadtrek would cover folks that said they were mislead by the bogus claims. The did nothing to help the etrek folks, and still haven't done anything about parasitic draw in the lithium systems that makes them effectively much smaller than rated, especially when you subtract top and bottom SOC safety space.


How many people were fooled when they started to add the 6 gallons of water in the water heater to the "fresh water capacity" thinking they could actually use that water, which they can't. Or when they rated the battery capacity in units as "400" amps which is really 185ah.



If you think the warranty is going to cover any of these kind of deceptions, I think you are dreaming.

[Maui Sunset]

Originally Posted by booster

There is no warranty for performance on most products, especially RVs, so I seriously doubt Roadtrek would cover folks that said they were mislead by the bogus claims. The did nothing to help the etrek folks, and still haven't done anything about parasitic draw in the lithium systems that makes them effectively much smaller than rated, especially when you subtract top and bottom SOC safety space.


How many people were fooled when they started to add the 6 gallons of water in the water heater to the "fresh water capacity" thinking they could actually use that water, which they can't. Or when they rated the battery capacity in units as "400" amps which is really 185ah.



If you think the warranty is going to cover any of these kind of deceptions, I think you are dreaming.

Well if you think RoadTrek is the only company on this planet
where the advertising/marketing folks take technical info from the engineering department
and get it wrong in the sales literature
then you and I live on different planets

[booster]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

Well if you think RoadTrek is the only company on this planet
where the advertising/marketing folks take technical info from the engineering department
and get it wrong in the sales literature
then you and I live on different planets

That would not be me thinking that way, as I know better, and you will note I never mentioned any other companies being better or worse. Lots of companies do similar, so buyer beware. You are the one that seems to be unrealistically thinking that Roadtrek hasn't and/or won't do such things. Many of us here, I think, have seen much more of how Roadtrek does business.

[Maui Sunset]

Originally Posted by booster

That would not be me thinking that way, as I know better, and you will note I never mentioned any other companies being better or worse. Lots of companies do similar, so buyer beware. You are the one that seems to be unrealistically thinking that Roadtrek hasn't and/or won't do such things. Many of us here, I think, have seen much more of how Roadtrek does business.

All I can do is read warranties and try to determine if a company stands behind that legal promise.

Honestly, I don't know a better way to compare companies with kind of similar products.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

All I can do is read warranties and try to determine if a company stands behind that legal promise.

Honestly, I don't know a better way to compare companies with kind of similar products.

Read the articles about them and learn about the systems from forums like this. Of course, anything on the internet is suspect, so trust but verify.


Probably the worst place you could ever choose to get information is an RV dealer and the second worst the manufacturer. But they both are useful for getting a list of claims for the various rigs so you can go out and do some research and see if they are true, false, misleading, or exaggerated.



If you live near a major camping area that is similar to the kind of place you would visit if you had an RV, go there on a day pass and walk around the campground. Especially class B folks are usually very happy to answer questions about their units. If there is a place to rent one, you can even stay there while you check things out.

[Maui Sunset]

Originally Posted by booster

Read the articles about them and learn about the systems from forums like this. Of course, anything on the internet is suspect, so trust but verify.


Probably the worst place you could ever choose to get information is an RV dealer and the second worst the manufacturer. But they both are useful for getting a list of claims for the various rigs so you can go out and do some research and see if they are true, false, misleading, or exaggerated.



If you live near a major camping area that is similar to the kind of place you would visit if you had an RV, go there on a day pass and walk around the campground. Especially class B folks are usually very happy to answer questions about their units. If there is a place to rent one, you can even stay there while you check things out.

Right now YouTube and forums like this are where I'm "coming up to speed" in the RV world

I actually have a well-known expert on Class B's as an advisor.

Sadly there aren't many choices for a Class B that I will invest $150,000.
Basically they are companies that back their products with
6 year
5 year

warranties - I might have to sink to 3 year warranties if the other choices don't meet our needs.

But 1 year warranties are a joke - I bet if someone did a survey
they would find that the number of YouTube horror stories about RVs
is directly tied (actually the inverse) to the companies warranties.

I have spent 2 solid months now trying to find a Class B
and I'm guessing I have 1 more month to go

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

That could be
but that 6-year warranty has to cover this.
RoadTrek is closed today because of Columbus Day so I can't verify
but as far as I can see that warranty covers EVERYTHING they add to the
chassis except for AGM batteries
which the manufacturer covers for some period of time

My guess is that RoadTrek does not cover AGM batteries
because the owner uses the batteries below the 50% threshold
which cuts the 500 recharge cycle to a fraction of that

You "guessing" again? Or did your "well-known expert on Class B's as an advisor" tell you this?

This is getting absurd, maybe I need to quote Carl Sagan again.

Bud

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bud

You "guessing" again? Or did your "well-known expert on Class B's as an advisor" tell you this?

This is getting absurd, maybe I need to quote Carl Sagan again.

Bud

Yep and the expert doesn't understand that the 50% rule is mostly a highly exaggerated issue that has grown somehow into urban legend. Plus he doesn't know that decent AGM batteries will be 1000-1200 cycles at 50%.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

warranties - I might have to sink to 3 year warranties if the other choices don't meet our needs.

But 1 year warranties are a joke - I bet if someone did a survey
they would find that the number of YouTube horror stories about RVs
is directly tied (actually the inverse) to the companies warranties.

I have spent 2 solid months now trying to find a Class B
and I'm guessing I have 1 more month to go

What exactly is your objective in posting on this list? There is no evidence that you have any interest in the advice and information offered by the many very-experienced members who have taken the time to respond.

Are you basically looking for someone to agree that your choice of RT is a good one?

[hbn7hj]

Just an opinion but all RV warranties are a joke. You will be better served to leave the dealer and never go back except for a major drive train problem. Hopefully the coach is well designed and you can fix the shoddy workmanship yourself.

As the salesman said as the new owner was about to drive away. "Are you a mechanic?" No. "You will be!" Judging coach quality by warrantee is a fool's errand. Just an opinion.

My friend has had a new RV for forty days. The dealer has had it for 33 of those days fixing stuff. If you buy new don't expect any better. He would have been better served to fix it himself.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

What exactly is your objective in posting on this list? Are you basically looking for someone to agree that your choice of RT is a good one?

X2, we have seen a quite a bit of this lately on here and seems to be a new phenomenon, with a couple of past exceptions.


A warranty is only as good as the dealer doing the work, and from what we have seen and heard, most RV shops couldn't find their "RV" with both hands.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Bud

You "guessing" again? Or did your "well-known expert on Class B's as an advisor" tell you this?

This is getting absurd, maybe I need to quote Carl Sagan again.

Bud

Indeed, absurd.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

What exactly is your objective in posting on this list? There is no evidence that you have any interest in the advice and information offered by the many very-experienced members who have taken the time to respond.

Are you basically looking for someone to agree that your choice of RT is a good one?

I second your questions, seems as analysis paralysis approach.

[Maui Sunset]

Wow - I sure put a burr under some saddles here.
Not my intention

I think my plan to buy an RV based on the greatest length of a warranty
is solid
I've seen no evidence that RV manufacturers who offer a 1 year warranty
offer superior products to those that offer 6 year warranties

Warranties are only as good as the dealer that does the warranty work.
In the RV world that seems to be highly questionable
It sounds like the automobile world 30 years ago
if you didn't buy the car here we won't service your car

From my impression of luxury cars
where you can bring your car to any dealer who sells the car
and it's serviced as if you bought it there
the RV manufacturers need to bring the hammer down on warranty work

because I see a HUGE wave of families buying a Class 3
instead of another van that costs about 1/2 the cost of a Class 3
and won't let you sleep, eat, bath, and enjoy a weekend in it

we shall see

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Maui Sunset

Wow - I sure put a burr under some saddles here.
Not my intention

I think my plan to buy an RV based on the greatest length of a warranty
is solid
I've seen no evidence that RV manufacturers who offer a 1 year warranty
offer superior products to those that offer 6 year warranties

Warranties are only as good as the dealer that does the warranty work.
In the RV world that seems to be highly questionable
It sounds like the automobile world 30 years ago
if you didn't buy the car here we won't service your car

From my impression of luxury cars
where you can bring your car to any dealer who sells the car
and it's serviced as if you bought it there
the RV manufacturers need to bring the hammer down on warranty work

because I see a HUGE wave of families buying a Class 3
instead of another van that costs about 1/2 the cost of a Class 3
and won't let you sleep, eat, bath, and enjoy a weekend in it

we shall see

Please start another thread!

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

What exactly is your objective in posting on this list? There is no evidence that you have any interest in the advice and information offered by the many very-experienced members who have taken the time to respond.

Are you basically looking for someone to agree that your choice of RT is a good one?

avanti, your questions are not being answered.

I'm finally starting to wonder, who's interests are being served? The poster is not serving his or her own interests, or at least poorly.

Bud