Help with lithium conversion 2000 Pleasure-Way

[booster]

Originally Posted by Nobadays

I can't answer your questions but will add...

I think the wire fron the isolator back is 4awg on my 2000 Excel TD. Somewhere in the rear it changes as I'm pretty certain both sides of the red master switch are 2/0, with 2/0 to the battery. I may be mistaken these might be 2awg but bigger than 4awg. Where it changes I have no idea but one side goes to the battery and it is protected by an 80amp breaker that is labeled "80 amp charge line" with this big wire on each side. There is also a breaker there labeled "30 amp power conveter" these are I believe 8 or 10awg. ( I'm used to working with residential off-grid solar where we use primarily 2/0, 4/0 and 10awg, sometimes 6 or 8awg but not often.)

I do like your idea of a busbar to connect the existing wires back to... alternator output, Chassis Battery and a line to the DC to DC charger. It would make clean in place of the Isolator.



I have wanted to do what you describe but I'm unclear exactly which wire is coming from the isolator and if it makes other stops along the way. I found it impossible to trace it under the van.

We wait for those who know more!

Your wire sizes are starting to make more sense now.


You think you have #4 to the coach from the isolator with 80 amp breakers in that cable. That is how many of the vans of that era were done, including our 07 roadtrek with two 12v wet cells.


You think you may may have a #2 cable for the battery or batteries to the disconnect. This is also very typical of the era and many, like ours had #2 battery cable to a binding post and then to the inverter charger as a smaller wire for only and 45 amp charger, 700 watt inverter, but no disconnect. My guess is that is all original and fused properly.


For the isolator all you need to do is disconnect the starting battery and leave the coach battery connected. The only wire you should see voltage on would be the one to the coach, so you will know which it is. Then disconnect the coach battery and connect the starting battery and you should see power on one cable, so you know which one that is. The other large wire would likely go to the alternator and be easy to trace if there is one. You would need the wiring diagram for the isolator that is probably online but probably the alternator and battery cables would connect together like they did stock. If there is a separate alternator cable that would also connect. Put them all on a busbar. Amazon has a lot of them, some better than others, look for thick bars and at least 8mm/5/16" diameter studs.


In general, all you need is to have the alternator and starting battery plus the cable to coach all together and should need nothing else like run sensing or such that might be on the isolator.



The wire to coach would go to the B to B charger and then to the coach batteries, or it would go to the new inverter with it's 110v output to a new transfer switch and then to shore charger. Both systems are quite simple, but B to B is probably a bit easier with only one addition and no 110v to deal with.


Sketch up both wiring diagrams and it probably will get pretty easy to see how they will work.

[SteveJ]

Regarding dc dc chargers: I do not let it get to the full 14.6 voltage if I can help it. The charging voltage stays in the mid 13v range until it gets toward full. When it starts to get full the voltage does a ramp up quite quickly. I've not had a problem catching it as I have a volt meter in the cockpit hooked the house batteries. The LiTime does have remote switching capability to drop to a 20 amp rate if desired.

BTW, currently $90 at Amazon, less a 10% coupon.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Charg...76&sr=8-2&th=1

[Nobadays]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Regarding dc dc chargers: I do not let it get to the full 14.6 voltage if I can help it. The charging voltage stays in the mid 13v range until it gets toward full. When it starts to get full the voltage does a ramp up quite quickly. I've not had a problem catching it as I have a volt meter in the cockpit hooked the house batteries. The LiTime does have remote switching capability to drop to a 20 amp rate if desired.

BTW, currently $90 at Amazon, less a 10% coupon.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Charg...76&sr=8-2&th=1

I will go with the Victron 12/12/30 charger, great equipment and easily adjusted to any chosen voltages and has a remote switch so it can be shut down if so desired. I have ordered the Progressive Dynamics PD9130LV converter/charger which has been redesign to be lifepo4 friendly. It is a 2 stage charger, 14.4v until batteries are charged then drops off ton13.6v maintenance (float) charge.

Thanks all!

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by Nobadays

I will go with the Victron 12/12/30 charger, great equipment and easily adjusted to any chosen voltages and has a remote switch so it can be shut down if so desired. I have ordered the Progressive Dynamics PD9130LV converter/charger which has been redesign to be lifepo4 friendly. It is a 2 stage charger, 14.4v until batteries are charged then drops off ton13.6v maintenance (float) charge.

Thanks all!

Do consider installing a remote switch to disable the float on the PD charger. 13.6 is pretty high for long term storage. LIFPO batts do not like to be on a continuous float.

BTW, nothing wrong with Victron equipment.

[booster]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Do consider installing a remote switch to disable the float on the PD charger. 13.6 is pretty high for long term storage. LIFPO batts do not like to be on a continuous float.

BTW, nothing wrong with Victron equipment.

This is why I recommended the needed anyway battery monitor. If a Victron monitor is used you can have it automatically shut off the charging when the batteries are full, from it's internal contacts.

[Nobadays]

Originally Posted by booster

This is why I recommended the needed anyway battery monitor. If a Victron monitor is used you can have it automatically shut off the charging when the batteries are full, from it's internal contacts.

Is this a function of the Smart Shunt or do you have to buy another piece of equipment to do this?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Nobadays

Is this a function of the Smart Shunt or do you have to buy another piece of equipment to do this?

The monitor connects to the smart shunt and the output to control on/off is setparate. A monitor and smart shunt is $110-150 IIRC depending on the model you buy.



IMO, every system should have a monitor and if you can get accurate charge initiation and termination along with it, that is a bonus.

[Nobadays]

Do you have a link? A Victron Smart Shunt alone is $100, and the cheapest monitor appears to be ~$160.

I'm aware voltage isn't the most accurate way to determine SOC on lifepo4 batteries, but that said it gives you an indication of SOC as long as you know when you last floated.

Our off-grid home is powered by 400ah/~20kwh of lifepo4 batteries. We do not have a shunt but our system control panel keeps track of wh/ah generated each day (Schneider equipment, the Victron equipment that powers my shop does as well). From these numbers I am able to estimate the SOC, and remaining energy. The SCP does have a SOC meter but I find it not very accurate.

My experience is, again monitoring the charge controller and knowing when you have fully charged/floated your batteries, and knowing your historic usage. With these numbers you can pretty well tell how much energy you have left in your batteries. Oh, it doesn't hurt to have a large battery bank! Our home bank gives us 4 days without charging, and I suspect having 200ah/2.4kwh in the van will be far more than we need most of the time, if not always.

[booster]

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ...01BVQR0V8?th=1


I actually have one of these that I put in our van first, but then decided to go up to the Bluetooth version. It was in a about a month and the shunt is not ever been in. Should be complete and is a BMV-700 basic model.


$50 plus shipping if you want it.

[Nobadays]

That's a good deal! I too really like the Bluetooth versions of Victron equipment. I have three different pieces of equipment here at the house plus I monitor 2 other off-grid solar systems I designed and installed for neighbors.... I'm spoiled on the accompanying app and the ease/flexibility it provides!

Thank you though... I'm sure someone will snap that up!

[JML]

I'm late to the discussion so you may have figured it out. In my 2013 Excel, I replaced the house battery with a BB 270 AmpHr LiPo. Here is what I did, and it was seen by a PW rep at a rally and he had no problem with the system: A Victron 30 Amp DC to DC charger with 30 amp CB on each side of it as specified, wired to the ignition system so it only worked when the engine was on. A Battery Isolator switch between the DC to DC and the house battery, a LiPo power converter replaced the stock one, a Victron 30 amp solar controller with a 100 amp panel on the roof and a port to add portable panels as needed, and a Victron Smart Shunt to monitor battery performance and charge. I used appropriate cable when I needed to use new cable, but the stock cable for all the rest. Make sure you don't exceed the draw if you stick to the stock cable. I also replaced the 400 watt inverter for a 1000 watt inverter, but I did not tie it into the system. I used CBs and fuses as specified all through the system. I put the dc to dc in the battery box and the CB from the engine compartment in the engine bay were the isolator was. Good Luck! (I also replaced the 3 way fridge with an Isotherm 115 which led to the need for more battery - well worth it!) Most important - You need the power wizard to be change to handle the LiPo and you need the DC to DC for the LiPo and to protect your alternator.

[Nobadays]

Thanks for the input! I'm going to assume "CB" refers to breakers? Now I'm questioning taking the isolator out. You say your DC to DC "...wired to the ignition system so it only worked when the engine was on." I guess I don't know how to do this. I'm being told the isolator isn't necessary but my mind is now telling me if I replace the isolator with a busbar the DC to DC could potentially draw from the Chassis Battery anytime it feels the need to charge the lifepo4 in the house.... hmmmm. I might lose a tiny bit of power if I leave the isolator in but I would then eliminate this possibility. The isolator is a 120A unite so I'm guessing I could easily pull 30A through it anyway.

My van has no on-board inverter other than a small one I put in to power one receptacle. Eventually I will put a larger inverter in but will wire it to the 120v circuit through a 3 way switch so I can choose shower power or to run off the inverter. ( my off-grid shop is wired that way, generator or solar... can't be both. Works great.)

Thanks... I think !��

[JML]

Yes, circuit breaker. The viltron has a built in sensor so it should only work when the engine is running anyway. I had it wired into the ignition switch because my electrical system in my rig had a few 'weirdtrons' in it and it would tend to stay on. (There was with a bad ground somewhere in the system or a previous owner did something to cause a power draw. I never could isolate it, hence the battery switch.) My BIL has the same rig as me and did similar mods and his viltron dc to dc charger had no issue without being connected to the ignition. BTW, I used the non-isolated version. Bear in mind the isolators I saw only turned the current on and off in a cycle so the alternator would not overheat. It may allow lots of current to go thru when on. The dc to dc charger regulates the current so the alternator is never taxed all that much. I think using both won't really do you any good.

[Nobadays]

...."The viltron has a built in sensor so it should only work when the engine is running anyway."

I did not know this! I'll see if it will work on a busbar then. My wiring is stock with no gremlins at this point... as long as I don't introduce any!

[JML]

From Victron for the smart dc to dc charger info: Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated
The Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger is a professional DC to DC adaptive 3-stage charger with built-in Bluetooth.
For use in dual battery systems in vehicles or on boats where the (smart) alternator and the start battery are used to charge the service battery. The unit can be monitored and programmed via Bluetooth and can be remotely controlled via a remote on/off switch and has an engine running detection mechanism.

[Nobadays]

I bought the non-isolated unit. It says it has engine running detection. Unfortunately it also says " used in systems where the alternator and vehicle battery are used to charge the service battery." Wondering if I should have gotten the isolated version? It does have a remote switch that I can turn it off with.

Hmmmm...

[Nobadays]

Actually, the isolated and non isolated havevthe same wording. I think I'm fine.

Thanks!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by JML

From Victron for the smart dc to dc charger info: Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated

You generally don't need the isolated version. it will work, but it costs more than the non-isolated version, and it has no advantage if you are going to have a common chassis ground (which is almost always the proper choice).

[JML]

Avanti said: You generally don't need the isolated version. it will work, but it costs more than the non-isolated version, and it has no advantage if you are going to have a common chassis ground (which is almost always the proper choice).

Agreed, I had the non-isolated - I pulled from the wrong one and as another person pointed out, they have the same functional ability.

[Nobadays]

Whew! I've already bought it! I'm just waiting for my second battery to arrive tomorrow before going into town to get all my parts. We live off-grid, 23 miles from the nearest paved road and 50 miles from the post office where we have a box (Alamosa, CO) so we don't venture to town until tracking says things have arrived. Hopefully later this week I can get it all installed.

I figured out which wire in the back comes directly from the isolator, so that will make it pretty easy to hook the DC to DC between the breaker it's on and the batteries... with another breaker on that side as well. Then replace the isolator with a busbar and the converter/charger with the new Progressive Dynamics unit and.... Bob's your Uncle! I will rewire my external solar panel plug to a new LiFePo4 capable charge controller then we will be ready for a trip to go catch some fish!