Help me pick inverter charger etc

[markopolo]

Analysis paralysis

I can't decide whether to get:

a. A Xantrex Freedom HF1800 inverter charger - 1800 watt modified sine wave inverter with 40 amp charger
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/i ... om-hf.aspx

b. A Xantrex Prowatt 2000 SW - 1800 watt pure sine wave inverter AND a PD4045 45 Amp Inteli-Power Mighty Mini Power Center AND an inline transfer relay
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/p ... tt-sw.aspx
http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4000.html
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/d ... relay.aspx

I do need a charger. The one in my van dates back to 1983 I think
And a new DC panel is needed also.

DW says get the pure sine wave. She's a smart cookie

Help!
(voting buttons above)

[Mike]

Questions/comments:
How much continuous power do you think you'll ever need at any given moment? If everything was turned on at the same time?
What items are you planning on running now, or in the future, that actually NEED pure sine wave power?
How long are you planning on keeping his van? Is the extra cost and installation complexity worth it, long term?
Do you think the more expensive setup, will enhance value if you were to sell it?
For me, easy installation is always important, because I don't have a place to do anything on my van comfortably. Fortunately, you do, so you have the luxury of taking your time on a more complex install.
Do you have plans to augment your 12V battery supply? Which setup makes more efficient use of your available existing battery bank?
If it were me, I'd probably go with the 1800HF (which I looked at exhaustively last year before deciding I didn't really need it after all). It has more installation options, a 30A auto-transfer relay built in, and a 40A charger is fine for a single deep cycle battery, and would probably be OK for 2. You can run anything on it, standalone, including M/W or toaster ovens, kettles/coffee makers, and some lower peak power tools. It should easily handle most electronics and lights and chargers.

[Davydd]

This is timely information I just received from Great West Vans in a newsletter.

Invertors: Pure Sine Wave
or Modified Sine Wave


From the Spring of 2012, all of our models offer only Pure Sine Wave Inverters. Sometimes referred to as True Sine Wave Invertors, there are significant benefits over Modified Sine Wave Inverters although they are much more expensive.

The output voltage of a sine-wave inverter has a similar pattern as in your home where the voltage rises and falls smoothly.

Modified sine wave inverters will power toasters, lights, microwaves and small fans but electronics do not work as well. Digital clocks will not keep accurate time and small battery chargers, such as used on cordless power appliances will not function correctly. Any electronic device is subject to failure.

The benefits of running equipment and appliances on a pure sine wave will include:

Microwave ovens cook faster
Equipment and appliances will last longer.
Equipment and appliances run cooler and more efficiently.
Equipment that can be damaged when running on modified sine wave inverters includes printers and rechargeable battery powered devices such as laptops, cameras and phones.
Motors run at their intended speed and with less heat.
Computer equipment lasts longer and is less likely to have mysterious errors or shut-downs.

All electrical devices are designed to operate on a pure or true sine wave. As the devices become more sophisticated, the reliance on a true sine wave will increase. Some appliances such as light dimmers and some battery chargers require a sine wave to work at all.

We now us a Pure Sine Wave Invertor from Samlex.
Here is their web site: http://www.samlexamerica.com

The best advice as with everything in the world of RV'ing, is do the research and find out as much as you can.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

This is timely information I just received from Great West Vans in a newsletter.

I took the advice about doing some research and found some of that same info (including exact text) at this site.
http://partsonsale.com/samlex--ssw-inverters.html
Each model has the caveat in bold brown text in the left margins
"This Inverter Is For 120 Volt Light Duty Electronic Applications Only. Will Not Start A Pump Or Other Motorized Or Inductive Loads Such As A Microwave Oven."
Every Samlex inverter has that included. Even the higher wattage ones. Food for thought?
The prices aren't bad, though.

[markopolo]

Just noticed this from Xantrex:

Xantrex Launches New Generation Freedom HF Inverter/Chargers

http://www.xantrex.com/power-product...hf-newgen.aspx

Three models:
1000 watt inverter / 20 amp charger
1000 watt inverter / 55 amp charger
2000 watt inverter / 40 amp charger

I guess the old models will be discontinued because the new units have the same name.

[Mike]

I can't remember the exact specs of the old ones, but the "new" ones look remarkably similar.
The web page link still shows 2 1000W models and an 1800W model with various integrated
charger amperages. I'm wondering if the "ignition control lockout" feature has any negative
implications to the operation of the unit? It almost sounds like you have to have the vehicle
ignition on to operate it? The doc mentions the inverter is disabled when the ignition is off.
Do they think you're going to connect them to the engine battery, or that there is no battery
separator/isolator?

Aside from the pages of repetitious safety warnings, the Installation Guide has a good diagram
of a typical RV application install. You almost don't need a step by step, except to actually use
good standard electrical safety practices when doing it.

[markopolo]

Available on the Freedom HF 1055 EMS model and Freedom HF 1800 EMS model.
The inverter/charger features a 20-amp fused and switched output voltage supplied
from the inverter/charger's positive terminal. When connected to a vehicle's ignition
signal, a switched positive voltage is available to power auxiliary circuits that are required
to operate only when the vehicle is operational.

EMS = Emergency Medical Services
Ambulances etc. that have high output alternators that supply the current they need so you don't have to worry about a battery discharging when operating medical equipment I guess.

[markopolo]

I ended up buying a 1,000W Pure Sine Inverter today from Canadian Tire on sale for $119.99 (Reg. price $299.99)
MotoMaster Eliminator Digital Power Inverter - Model 011-1892-4

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

I would not have even considered it at $299.99 but at $119.99 I decided to go with it.
If you are tempted by this deal make sure to read the specifications on the side of the box. The top of the box shows 1000 watts heavy Duty. The first one I bought without reading the specs on the side. I read it when I got home and it showed 800 watts continuous and 1000 watts for 5 minutes. I found a new owner manual online and to my surprise it showed 1000 watts continuous. My manual showed 800 or 900 watts continuous depending where you looked in the manual. So I phoned another Canadian Tire and asked that they check their stock and read out the specs printed on the side of the box. Theirs was 1000 watt continuous just like what I read in the new owner manual I downloaded. So I returned the first one. It was older stock manufactured July 2010. The second one I bought had a date of manufacture of November 2011.

The inverters looked the same and had the same model number 11-1892-4. Boxes look the same as well. Only visible difference is the specifications printed on the side and in the manuals.

The older inverter manufactured July 2010 had 800 watts continuous and 1000 watts for 5 minutes and 1600 watt surge - see photo:


The newer inverter manufactured November 2011 had 1000 watts continuous and 1100 watts for 5 minutes and 2000 watt surge - see photo:


This 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter weighs 7 lbs. I have a 1000 watt modified sine wave inverter that only weighs 4 lbs. Heavier is better I think

It also has some nice features like the digital display, remote on/off switch and a USB outlet.
The microwave oven in my van is 600 watt cooking power and 900 watt power consumption. This new inverter should be able to handle that load nicely.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by markopolo

EMS = Emergency Medical Services
Ambulances etc. that have high output alternators that supply the current they need so you don't have to worry about a battery discharging when operating medical equipment I guess.

A very specialized application then? (I didn't see that info on the website anywhere when I looked at it).
I wonder if it could be utilized somehow in a non-emergency vehicle, like to run the vehicle engine
just long enough to brew a pot of coffee?
Oh, I forgot, I'll have my coffee made automatically by my coffee maker in the trailer soon.

[cargovanconversion]

I would always choose the pure sine wave, you never know what you are connecting to it.

Van.

[markopolo]

I agree - go with pure sine wave if you can. Prices have come down a lot.
Modified sine wave is fine for lots of applications though.

[Mike]

I'm thinking there aren't that many devices left, except maybe some printers and some medical
odds and ends that need true pure sine wave power, but if you can afford it, it might be worth it.
With my luck, I'd buy a modified wave inverter, and suddenly have a need for true sine power.

[Davydd]

The two Sprinters I've owned (Pleasure-way Plateau and GWVan Legend) have both come with modified sine wave inverters to run the LCD TV off the battery. The P-W had an inaccessible outlet so the TV was the only thing that was going to run on it. The GWVan has an accessible duplex outlet so I could plug other devices in.

[markopolo]

Sunforce Pure Sine Wave Inverter — 650 Watt, Model# 11230 on sale for $150.00
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200381687

My '04 Roadtrek came with a modified sine wave inverter also.