Field Test: lead acid and lithium hybrid battery system

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bud

"...I think we have a winner here...."

Is this a commercially viable product?

Bud

Hymer seems to think it is, as there combo setup in Europe is where all this started for us.

Harry brings up a good point about Gramma needing to be able to run it, and I do think that would be viable with some work.

Personally, I don't see this as a big time application, as it addresses issues that most folks don't even know, or don't care, that they have. That would be the need to get AGM batteries full regularly and the temp and cost issues with lithium.

I do think it can be a very good solution for nearly always offgrid folks with either and engine generator or standalone generator so they can reduce the needed generator run times by a lot. It could also make having solar unnecessary for such folks and/or allow a lot more camping in the shade or clouds without battery worries.

[Bud]

Harry, booster, thanks for the responses.

I did recall the other thread and Hymer, but not any of the 'how to use'. Seems that in the US, this kind of solution may not happen, not profitable enough or at all. Some of the B manufacturers have heading down a different road, and I don't see a Pleasureway initiating this.

Nice for someone in the US though! Harry having success and a good time.

Bud

[booster]

Definitely good for some, I think. Like Harry, we get by quite well by using the solar to finish charge our AGM batteris (Avanti also), but if we didn't have solar in place, I think I would chose to try this setup over the solar, to get the better in the shade performance it could give.

[booster]

Don't want to hijack Harry's thread, but I thought I would post how I would do a system with the only real intent of use for the lithium battery would be charge the AGM to full, or as emergency backup power if the AGM goes dead.

That premise makes the entire setup much less complicated and used less often, with less operator input.

[hbn7hj]

Just a datapoint. This morning lead/acid was at 96%, lithium at 60%. Charging by generator both batteries reach 100% at the same time in 40 minutes. There are no typos in this note. Just an interesting factoid.

[booster]

Very interesting. What do you have set as "charged" in the AGM Trimetric compared to battery size? Most important is the amp setting.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by booster

Very interesting. What do you have set as "charged" in the AGM Trimetric compared to battery size? Most important is the amp setting.

For lead acid charged is 14.4 volts and 4 amps
For Lithium charged is 14.5 volts and 10 amps.

The 96% is an accurate number. 100% the night before from the DC to DC charger, switch off all night, 100% in the morning then about a half hour of satellite TV.

Do you guys know where 7-up got it's name? It contained lithium with an atomic weight of 7. Lithium was known even at the time (1920s?)as a mood enhancer, therefore the "up." Lithium has since been removed from the product. Just thought you needed to know that.!

[hbn7hj]

Sunrise LA 83% Li 69%
8AM Generator start
8:30 Generator off LA 88% Li 100% DC to DC charger on. Solar on.
11:00 LA 100% Li 70% DC charger off.
3PM LA 100% Li 100%

Solar is set for 14.8 volts. The BMS shut it down, The monitor read 14.7 volts and +200 ma under clear skies. The solar controller needs to be set lower.

[hbn7hj]

Observations:
The Honda EU1000i (700 watts) will not drive a 60 amp (800+watts) charger. The Yamaha 1000 watt generator is rated at 900 watts continuous duty, less on propane.

Either charger (40 amp LA or 60 Li) can be used to charge both batteries with the battery switch on "both."

Paralleling both chargers will charge the lithium at 78 amps. I found that out through a wiring mistake,

The DC to DC charger is very convenient to have. The lithium battery charges like filling a fuel tank, the lead acid, as we all know, does not.

Will report on the second battery and 60 amp charger in June. Using the same power daily charge times would be reduced to 15 minutes. I'm sure I'll use more power and 30 minute daily generator times are very acceptable.

The Honda EU 1000i powering a lead acid charger at 10 amps or less in Eco mode uses so little propane it sometimes shuts off. I assume it is a sticking propane regulator.
Harry

[hbn7hj]

We have installed the second 100ah lithium battery, a second 60 amp lithium charger, a 1500 watt hardwired inverter with transfer switch and a battery compartment vent fan. we removed the 50 amp circuit breaker to ground and added a 200 amp circuit breaker on the positive side of the lithium batteries.

Everything appears to be working well. The inverter runs the 1100 watt microwave. I expected lithium charging rates to double but I'm not seeing that. Double would be 110 amps and I'm seeing 75 amps. Will look into that.

We are in a low power use situation with no furnace and little TV at the moment. We lowered the solar max voltage to 14.5 volts. Procedure is to direct solar to the lithium and let the lithium charge the lead acid. With good sun both are charged to 100% by evening. More info when we get into colder territory and use more power. Waiting for forest fires to subside.

Einstein didn't receive his Nobel prize for E=MC squared. He received it for the photo electric effect theory which we exploit so well with our solar panels. Thanks Al!

[hbn7hj]

This project is complete providing all the power necessary with minimum generator run time and lead acid batteries reaching 100% daily, rain or shine.

All objectives met and we didn't burn anything down! Thanks for the help.

After the class B the next project is a water treatment filtration system to use backcountry water with possible giardiasis. Looking for a test subject, heh, heh. Guess it is gonna be me!

[Bud]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

This project is complete providing all the power necessary with minimum generator run time and lead acid batteries reaching 100% daily, rain or shine.

All objectives met and we didn't burn anything down! Thanks for the help.

After the class B the next project is a water treatment filtration system to use backcountry water with possible giardiasis. Looking for a test subject, heh, heh. Guess it is gonna be me!

HEY, 'Been There, Done That' about 35 years ago, Wind River Range in WY.

Very Impressive, from just deciding to take on the project to all objectives met.

Don't threaten me again with giardiasis. OK, OK I volunteer for the 'test subject position'. Who wouldn't after these kind of results.

Bud

[booster]

Very glad that it all worked out well for you and you were able to prove out the premise and theory, as it looked like it might be a good setup for those who offgrid with a generator and want to minimize generator run time but still take very good care of their lead acid batteries.


Good job and great documentation and followup.