EcoFlow Delta Pro whole-van viability

[InterBlog]

My husband and I just picked up an EcoFlow Delta Pro which Costco is presently offering for $2,850. As recently as 3.5 months ago when this well-written comparative review was published, major retailers were listing the thing for $3,700 (and some such as REI still list at that price today). That is the kind of price movement that really gets a person’s attention. HT to Airforums user Rockkrawlin for alerting us to the Costco deal.

We bought EcoFlow to simplify our off-grid trailer powering needs. Last summer we built a DIY unit which we nicknamed the “power tower”, but it was intended to serve multiple purposes including powering my husbands entire future off-grid office including air conditioning, so it was grossly oversized for an off-grid supplemental camping scenario. Ultimately we decided that we didn’t want to drag that massive, expensive unit with us cross-country, hence our EcoFlow purchase.

I was attracted to the EcoFlow Delta Pro in part because its 3.6 kWh capacity basically matches that of our original DIY van conversion. Therefore my brain is already equipped with an instinctive sense of its load and recharge limits, which is helpful in real-world applications.

But that observation raises a provocative possibility. For all those people attempting to convert their vans to lithium, I think this thing might offer as close to an affordable off-the-shelf option as we have seen to date. If my husband and I were converting our van today instead of 7 years ago, based on what I know right now, I think this would be our choice.

So my questions for this thread are —

(1) Is anyone here using the Delta Pro?

(2) You guys with abundant lithium experience - do you see any obvious hazards or limitations within the specs of this unit (users manual link)? Nothing in life is perfect, so what would you be on the lookout for, or what would you have reservations regarding, with using this unit as the basis for a whole-van electrical system?

Thanks!

Pic of it fast-charging next to the chest freezer that I am using as a first load test:

[@Michael]

If I were building my own conversion, I'd consider something like an Ecoflow, perhaps even the Ecoflow Power Kit with 12V & 120V panels, inverter, touchscreen - pretty much a complete solution for RV's.

https://www.ecoflow.com/us/ecoflow-power-kits/series

One observation - the Ecoflow Delta doesn't seem to like cold temperatures - perhaps one would have to bring it indoors when not using it in winter?

[hbn7hj]

This is the equivalent of three 100AH batteries? All 48 volt stuff is within the unit, except for solar input, I presume.

Batteries can be replaced or all new unit?

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

This is the equivalent of three 100AH batteries? All 48 volt stuff is within the unit, except for solar input, I presume.

Batteries can be replaced or all new unit?

I think the actual energy stored is not listed, at least that I saw, by the manufacturer. The review says 3600 watt hours though, which would be the equivalent to 3 100ah batteries at 100% discharge.



We may be dealing with another case of folks using watts for both instantaneous power and energy stored. The manufacturers can easily camouflage and/inflate how much power there really is in the unit. Kind of like the Roadtrek 400 amp coach battery that was only 180 amp hours of energy.

[hbn7hj]

If I remember correctly 300AH is 50% more than your van so you should be happy. With Starlink and compressor fridge having a gas powered generator nearby would be important for me.

I have 400AH. With only 200 “watts” of solar I have to run the generator up to an hour daily. Doubling the solar I would still need the generator and I run a propane fridge. I have the capability of a 200 amp charge rate but five year old lithiums won’t take it. 90% up works better at a 60-70 amp charge rate. Below 90% can take the 100 amps plus charge rate.

If you have the room an extra module would be a good backup since you cannot subdivide the internal batteries. I have both lithium and lead acid and there have been several times that it has helped to shut the defective system down and continue with the other till repaired.

The circuit breaker to the lithium system failed open. Not wanting to bypass the breaker the furnace continued on a cold night with the other system.

Certainly like the smarts in the management system. Thanks for posting. Fail safe would be nice.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by booster

I think the actual energy stored is not listed, at least that I saw, by the manufacturer. The review says 3600 watt hours though, which would be the equivalent to 3 100ah batteries at 100% discharge.



We may be dealing with another case of folks using watts for both instantaneous power and energy stored. The manufacturers can easily camouflage and/inflate how much power there really is in the unit. Kind of like the Roadtrek 400 amp coach battery that was only 180 amp hours of energy.

And then there was the Roadtrek method of computing fresh water capacity.

[booster]

IMO, the review is pretty much a regurgitation of the manufactures literature, and of course it has what are certainly compensated links of where to buy the unit.

I when I read the specs on the company website if said max voltage for charging of 60v, which is pretty low. With the now typical max open circuit voltage of 21.7ish volts you would be limited to 24v panels to stay within the 60v.

I also wonder about the review as he says he has his running at 82v so way over rated voltage if the 60v is correct. The reviewer would have his wired for 48v to get 82 running volts.

Specs also list a couple of different storage temps and they didn't seem to address charging temps that I saw. The marketing stuff says 3600watts, or watt hours, but the cycle life of 3500 cycles is at 80% capacity recharges. Is the bank 3600watt hours? Is usable power limited by the BMS to 80%? We hear all the time now that lithium is best if stored at room temp and 50% SOC so using them for an emergency power source is a bit incompatible for a backup power source where you would want to store the maximum amount of power you can.

I really don't understand why so many the specs for lithium systems tend misleading, incomplete, and often contradictory. Too much input from Marketing, maybe, and not enough from the Engineering side?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by booster

…….

I really don't understand why so many the specs for lithium systems tend misleading, incomplete, and often contradictory. Too much input from Marketing, maybe, and not enough from the Engineering side?

Yes. That is an annoying issue. On good user forums, people trade valuable objective content for free, but in the publishing world, they have to stick to what earns them a paycheck. But that, of course, is exactly why I barfed out this thread. To attract the people who have the capability to pick the claims apart.

Some of the Delta Pro’s workings are indeed opaque to the end user. At some point, someone on the internet will crack open that box, derive the missing info from its guts, and make a YouTube video out of it. If anyone finds that inevitable analysis, please post it here on this thread so we can have it for reference.

But for the moment, I am mostly enchanted by its demonstrable possibilities. I am interested in presenting real-world information in a way that is valuable to all of the non-techies who are struggling for accurate info on what these packages will or will not actually do for them, and who have limited interest in learning why those capabilities are they way they are (or aren’t).

So at this point, I can tell you, for instance, that the Delta Pro is capable of running my 5 cubic food chest freezer for at least 3 days in the absence of any recharging. That is one empirical data point. And that’s a non-Energy-Star lowest-end residential appliance - a clunker. It is not a 12-volt energy-optimized appliance such as a good quality marine fridge with a Danfoss compressor, which IMO is what serious Class B off-gridders should be aiming for.

Anyway, please keep posting info and suggestions.

Oh, and to the poster who noted the freeze issue, that is true of all LFP batteries, not just the Delta Pro. They cannot be charged if the battery temperature is below freezing, although some systems do include self-warming components that may be capable of overcoming this limitation depending on the situation.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

.......................
So at this point, I can tell you, for instance, that the Delta Pro is capable of running my 5 cubic food chest freezer for at least 3 days in the absence of any recharging. That is one empirical data point. And that’s a non-Energy-Star lowest-end residential appliance - a clunker. It is not a 12-volt energy-optimized appliance such as a good quality marine fridge with a Danfoss compressor, which IMO is what serious Class B off-gridders should be aiming for.
........................

Measuring energy consumption during these 3 days would be more valuable than 5 cubic (I assume Ft) and 3 days.

[hbn7hj]

Next question. Is it four 12v, two 24 volt, or one 48v battery. Time for a screw driver, maybe.
Hopefully four, non custom, 12 volt batteries. Two, non custom, 24 volt batteries would be OK. One custom 48 volt battery may bring future problems.

[Urlauber]

I have started to employ a smaller power station (1200Wh for ~$500) for something similar. It will augment the existing AGM batteries. Really neat way to start getting into Li batteries without having to worry about new chargers, converters, etc.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...ery-13694.html

[hbn7hj]

It appears, after digging a bit, that none of the “power generators” have replaceable batteries. I guess the concept works.

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

It appears, after digging a bit, that none of the “power generators” have replaceable batteries. I guess the concept works.

Mostly, I think, it works for the manufacturers as they don't have to stock spare parts and can sell you a whole new one. It very, very likely that you could replace the batteries if you could get an identical replacement.



It is a throw away world now, unfortunately.

[hbn7hj]

This may be a start for what you are after.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fdeZz4QvxG0&t=29s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1eTBXXDzLX0

[InterBlog]

Yes, I’ve begun to watch that dude’s videos. He generates useful content.

Much of this is down to application and context. If I were building an off-grid van
AND
I had some tech skill
AND
I had no multi-use aspirations and therefore could accept a non-portable battery
AND
I was not able to fit 300 watts of solar on my van roof
THEN
his DIY solution would be a more obvious superior choice for my situation.

But number one, size is not everything - it’s what you do with it that matters.



Number two, the systems he demonstrates in that first video are now the same price. The DIY version still has more capability, but is that needed in the van context? Well, that depends on a host of factors that revolve around the owner’s aspirations and available space.

Number three, I can’t tell you how many times I have lamented that my existing van lithium system is not versatile. Could I have scooted it into my house and powered my original upright freezer during Winter Storm Uri when we had no electricity for 3 full days in sub-zero weather? Nope. Not only did I lose a few hundred dollars of food in that freezer, I also lost the thousand dollar freezer itself, which was damaged by the wild fluctuations deriving from grid instability.

Number four, I wanted a battery for use in my utility trailer, which has 600 watts of solar bolted to its roof. Right now, there’s nothing I aspire to run in that trailer that could not be served by that combination of hardware. That may change in the future, but right now, that’s the case.

So in my situation, having a hassle-free rolly-polly is arguably not a bad option. But that’s only my situation, which is different from everyone else’s.

[hbn7hj]

Yep, we appreciate his observations. We make our own conclusions..

I’m not a EE power guy but I assume it would take another 120 volt inverter to provide 240 volts to the 240 volt connector. Wiring it for 110 only was sensible. One can look somewhere else to power ones’s Tesla for 10 miles. I still want to see inside.

I have a friend that wants Starlink but refuses to upgrade his electrical system. A smaller power source like this would do the job, I think.

The only problem left is attaching it to the floor. Clamps on the bottom would be more elegant but a couple of straps would work.

[GaryBIS]

Hi,
Interesting product.

For someone wanting to use this in a van conversion, it seems like being able to charge from the van alternator in a reasonable time is likely to be an important thing. It looks to me like this unit can only be charged from 12 volts at 8 amps. Recharging its 3600 watt-hrs at 12 volts and 8 amps would take 38 hours - this seems impractical? Or, am I missing something?

I guess one could run an inverter off the van electrical system and plug this unit by plugging it into the inverter, but this seems kind of awkward.

One thing I did notice is that its 12 volt output is a pretty healthy 30 amps - much more than most of these units, and it seems more practical for a van conversion with all the 12 volt loads they normally have.

On the other hand, you could build a DIY version of this with its features tailored to your needs, plenty of DC charging capability, and the ability to extend it and keep it running for the life of the van for about $2000.

Gary

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by GaryBIS

Hi,
Interesting product.

It looks to me like this unit can only be charged from 12 volts at 8 amps. Recharging its 3600 watt-hrs at 12 volts and 8 amps would take 38 hours - this seems impractical? Or, am I missing something?

That is why these things are called solar generators. You need a lot of it. If you have it they work very well. I like to charge at 100-200 amps from a gasoline generator.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by GaryBIS

Hi,
…. It looks to me like this unit can only be charged from 12 volts at 8 amps. Recharging its 3600 watt-hrs at 12 volts and 8 amps would take 38 hours - this seems impractical? Or, am I missing something?

….

Answer - right now, I don’t know if you are missing anything. I can tell you that AC charging is manually configurable from 400 watts to 1,600 watts. The high end gets the job done in 2 hours, but is not recommended as a daily practice as the reviewers fear it would reduce battery life. Right now, I’m in the process of a series of hopefully-cell-balancing charges and discharges using the 400 watt setting. In other words, I’m running it down to 30% and then wall-charging back up to full over and over again, because that’s theoretically what its BMS-related brain components need to refine itself.

My EE skills are limited. My husband is a MechE with a lot of EE experience, but he is still in the process of digesting this thing. Here is a good tear-down vid below, by a guy who has almost a million followers. Unfortunately, this guy’s primary objective was to document strengths and weaknesses of the physical build, so he talks a lot about product internal durability, where conformal coatings were placed and where not, the use of Silastic, etc. He doesn’t reveal the cell chamber in part because there’s a board riveted over it (not screwed). So, frustratingly, there’s some basic specs that are not covered during his 38 minutes of chatter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagxSrPeoYg

[hbn7hj]

An amazing amount of electronics to charge and discharge a battery! I can understand a little of it for the solar MPPT. The rest of it is beyond me. I assume it is “necessary.”