Do I have a bad battery separator or some other problem?

[DRich]

I'm not sure if there is a problem with my battery separator. I have a 2012 Roadtrek 170. The battery separator is a Sure Power Model 1315-200. I have a new chassis battery as of May and a new house battery as of Oct.

I posted a couple of months ago that I had a problem after plugging into a campground with my battery separator rapidly clicking. I was told that it sounded like power surging at the post and I changed locations. After plugging into the new location all was well for several hours and then the rapid clicking started again so I just unplugged the rest of the night. Then the next day my house battery wouldn't hold a charge. Ended up replacing the house battery. Then I was having a problem that it was not showing as fully charged on my battery monitor panel inside although I was told it was showing fully charged when they tested it at the service dept.

I just traveled for 5 days. The first night plugging in was uneventful and the next day even showed my house battery was fully charged on the battery monitor panel. The only time I heard the battery separator click was when I first plugged in and again when I unplugged. That was how it had worked previously before I had the original rapid clicking problem at that campground.

The second night I noticed some very occasional clicking during the night.

The third night when I first plugged in it started rapid clicking again so I immediately unplugged. I had left it plugged into the surge protector and just plugged the surge protector into the post so I unplugged from the post then unplugged from the surge protector. Then I plugged in the surge to the post then plugged into the surge and no rapid clicking. Again I heard some occasional clicking during the night.

The 4th night I plugged in the surge first then the rv and it just did the typical click when first plugging in. Again some occasional clicking during the night. However in the morning as I was getting ready to leave it started rapid clicking again so I just unplugged since I was almost ready to leave anyway.

As I was driving to my final destination after about 2 hours when I stopped for gas when I turned off the engine there was rapid clicking for about 30 seconds which never happened before. That continued to happen every time I stopped and turned off the engine. My chassis battery continually shows either a tick just below or just above 14 on the dash.

I'm not sure if the rapid clicking indicates a problem with the battery separator or if I'm overcharging the batteries or some other electrical issue. Any insight from those with experience would be appreciated. I can't do anything myself but it helps to understand what the problem could be to tell a mechanic or if I should be doing something differently because I'm overcharging the batteries.

[MsNomer]

I always disconnect the Surepower when not running the van. It has a horrendous parasite load. And they do wear out.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

I always disconnect the Surepower when not running the van. It has a horrendous parasite load. And they do wear out.

The Surepower does have high parasitic, but only when there is a charge source active or it gets fooled by the high voltage of lithium batteries. Without that the parasitic is small. That said, a change to a better setup that has lower parasitic is a good idea as even except that even with lower parasitic, you still may be having all your solar or lithium get drained by the van electronics over time.


It would help to know the OP's system information like batteries on both the coach and chassis, solar if any, compressor frig or other loads, etc.

[DRich]

Originally Posted by booster

The Surepower does have high parasitic, but only when there is a charge source active or it gets fooled by the high voltage of lithium batteries. Without that the parasitic is small. That said, a change to a better setup that has lower parasitic is a good idea as even except that even with lower parasitic, you still may be having all your solar or lithium get drained by the van electronics over time.


It would help to know the OP's system information like batteries on both the coach and chassis, solar if any, compressor frig or other loads, etc.

no solar. I just had a Novakool R3800 installed in Oct. The receipt on the house battery I just had installed says Battery 27. The receipt for the chassis battery installed in June (not May) says Duralast Gold battery.

[booster]

Originally Posted by DRich

no solar. I just had a Novakool R3800 installed in Oct. The receipt on the house battery I just had installed says Battery 27. The receipt for the chassis battery installed in June (not May) says Duralast Gold battery.

Do you have only one gp27 battery? If so, you are not going to get very long of run time when you have a compressor frig probably one day on a good battery that is fully charged when you consider your other loads also. Nearly all gp27 batteryies, even the DC27 designated ones no appear to be basically the marine batteries of the past so not great for repeated deep cycles, especially if you are getting short charges that are less than full.


The clicking is probably because one or both of the batteries is so low that the it drops the voltage below the separators connection limit.



Probably best to check the voltages on the batteries and see what it is not charging and charging if you can, or find someone who can do it.

[DRich]

Originally Posted by booster

Do you have only one gp27 battery? If so, you are not going to get very long of run time when you have a compressor frig probably one day on a good battery that is fully charged when you consider your other loads also. Nearly all gp27 batteryies, even the DC27 designated ones no appear to be basically the marine batteries of the past so not great for repeated deep cycles, especially if you are getting short charges that are less than full.


The clicking is probably because one or both of the batteries is so low that the it drops the voltage below the separators connection limit.



Probably best to check the voltages on the batteries and see what it is not charging and charging if you can, or find someone who can do it.

yes, only one battery. The only time the fridge is running on battery only is when I'm driving otherwise I'm plugged in when it's on.

The battery monitor panel showed the house battery as green and the chassis battery needle stays around 14 and I assumed that meant they were adequately charged. And since they are supposed to be charging when I drive I didn't think there would be a problem with a low battery. My propane/CO detector beeps when the battery is low which is how I figured out I had a bad battery that wasn't holding a charge when I had that initial problem at that one campground. I didn't have the novaKool at that time, I had the original Dometic 3-way fridge.

I guess I never thought that the clicking was because the batteries were low when the battery monitor wasn't indicating a low battery and after driving about 5-6 hours a day. And I don't know why the clicking would have started after being plugged in for about 12 hours when the battery should have had a good charge.

When I had the initial problem a mobile rv tech checked voltage at the battery separator, the chassis battery, and the house battery and he said all were ok.

Is there a better house battery that I should get? Is the clicking of the separator always indicative of a low battery or would some other problem cause that to happen?

[booster]

Originally Posted by DRich

yes, only one battery. The only time the fridge is running on battery only is when I'm driving otherwise I'm plugged in when it's on.

The battery monitor panel showed the house battery as green and the chassis battery needle stays around 14 and I assumed that meant they were adequately charged. And since they are supposed to be charging when I drive I didn't think there would be a problem with a low battery. My propane/CO detector beeps when the battery is low which is how I figured out I had a bad battery that wasn't holding a charge when I had that initial problem at that one campground. I didn't have the novaKool at that time, I had the original Dometic 3-way fridge.

I guess I never thought that the clicking was because the batteries were low when the battery monitor wasn't indicating a low battery and after driving about 5-6 hours a day. And I don't know why the clicking would have started after being plugged in for about 12 hours when the battery should have had a good charge.

When I had the initial problem a mobile rv tech checked voltage at the battery separator, the chassis battery, and the house battery and he said all were ok.

Is there a better house battery that I should get? Is the clicking of the separator always indicative of a low battery or would some other problem cause that to happen?

All those symptoms sound like one of the batteries is having trouble. If it does it on shore power, it might mean the shore charger is not getting up to voltage or perhaps there is a bad connection at the charger or batteries.


The indicator lights are not a good indicator of battery charge and a rough approximation at best. Do you see a light come on to indicate "charging" on the panel?

[DRich]

Originally Posted by booster

All those symptoms sound like one of the batteries is having trouble. If it does it on shore power, it might mean the shore charger is not getting up to voltage or perhaps there is a bad connection at the charger or batteries.


The indicator lights are not a good indicator of battery charge and a rough approximation at best. Do you see a light come on to indicate "charging" on the panel?

yes, the green light comes on and according to the manual it's supposed to indicate either that it's charging or fully charged. I also do hear a soft whirring sound off and on from under the bed where the inverter is I guess that does the charging.

When I originally took it in and got the new battery they said they checked all the connections and said they were good. no corrosion, no loose wires.

It sounds like I'll have to take it in and have it checked out. What would be helpful is if I had some idea of what are the things that I should tell them to check over or look for.

[booster]

Originally Posted by DRich

yes, the green light comes on and according to the manual it's supposed to indicate either that it's charging or fully charged. I also do hear a soft whirring sound off and on from under the bed where the inverter is I guess that does the charging.

When I originally took it in and got the new battery they said they checked all the connections and said they were good. no corrosion, no loose wires.

It sounds like I'll have to take it in and have it checked out. What would be helpful is if I had some idea of what are the things that I should tell them to check over or look for.

The separator turns on and off based on voltage changes going to it from the batteries or charge sources. If they check voltage on both sides when it is doing the clicking they should be able to figure it out fairly quickly.

[DRich]

Originally Posted by booster

The separator turns on and off based on voltage changes going to it from the batteries or charge sources. If they check voltage on both sides when it is doing the clicking they should be able to figure it out fairly quickly.

so if it is rapidly clicking on and off that indicates a voltage problem. (that sounds dangerous) And telling an rv tech that there seems to be a problem with voltage and describing the circumstances in which it does the rapid clicking is enough for them to figure out what the problem is?

[booster]

Originally Posted by DRich

so if it is rapidly clicking on and off that indicates a voltage problem. (that sounds dangerous) And telling an rv tech that there seems to be a problem with voltage and describing the circumstances in which it does the rapid clicking is enough for them to figure out what the problem is?

I think it should be unless it something really odd. They should either find a bad separator or a voltage issue. The cause of voltage issues could be quite a few things so it would slower from there on as they track it.

[DRich]

Originally Posted by booster

I think it should be unless it something really odd. They should either find a bad separator or a voltage issue. The cause of voltage issues could be quite a few things so it would slower from there on as they track it.

You know I never had a problem until that campground incident. And I kind of thought if there was some power surging that it messed something up besides the house battery. But I sure don't know anything about troubleshooting an rv electrical problem and the couple of times I took it in they told me nothing was wrong.

From what you've said I do think there is something going on that needs further investigation. And I'll approach it from the perspective of the separator or voltage issue instead of a battery or charging issue.

Thanks so much for your comments. You've been very helpful in pointing me in a direction.

[slowhands]

Relays do fail. I'm not not sure that is your problem, but I prefer Victron Argo FET isolator to a relay. https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B00NT9MTMQ

[Road Toad]

Possibly a Sure Power 1315 problem?
There is a recall alert on them.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...1QIwE3oECBMQAQ

[Road Toad]

Originally Posted by slowhands

Relays do fail. I'm not not sure that is your problem, but I prefer Victron Argo FET isolator to a relay. https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B00NT9MTMQ

This Victron product appears to not allow charging of engine battery when Shore power is present and vehicle is not running.

I was of the understanding that a "Separator" is the desired type of device?
When a charging source is present on either engine or coach, both batteries would receive charging current.

Any pros here to weigh in on this notion?

[DRich]

Originally Posted by RoadToad@live.com

Possibly a Sure Power 1315 problem?
There is a recall alert on them.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...1QIwE3oECBMQAQ

thanks for the info. I have an appt on Monday. I'll let them know about this.

[Jim Agile]

This statement is found in the Installation and Operation Manual for the Model 1315-200:

"A delay function has been incorporated in the control circuit to prevent the BATTERY SEPARATOR from reacting to momentary voltage fluctuations and chattering."

A failed capacitor in the control unit could eliminate the delay and result in chattering.

[DRich]

Originally Posted by Jim Agile

This statement is found in the Installation and Operation Manual for the Model 1315-200:

"A delay function has been incorporated in the control circuit to prevent the BATTERY SEPARATOR from reacting to momentary voltage fluctuations and chattering."

A failed capacitor in the control unit could eliminate the delay and result in chattering.

Thanks. I'll mention this at my appt tomorrow.

[DRich]

It was a bad battery separator after all. Am replacing with a Precision isolator. It's like the Blue Sea only without the extra accessories. My battery monitor on the panel is also not working correctly so I'm having a very simple battery monitor installed rather than having a new circuit board replaced on the panel.