Battleborn & Renogy - Obsolete or in a Price War?

[woodbri]

Originally Posted by dmb496

You must have found an exclusive sale
because...
As I type this response, Costco has the Lion Energy 105ah batteries on SALE @ $1399 for a PAIR of batteries. I have never seen a lower price for a pair of UT1300 batteries. I have 12 of them.

OK, my bad! you are correct 2 for $1399, numbers got mixed up in my aging head. I hate it when that happens. Still I would prefer to stick with known brands with good warranties. Sorry for the wrong info in my other posts.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by woodbri

Bud,

They are likely from China also but my understanding is after manufacturing the cells tested and sorted based on a bunch of criteria and the better companies get the better cells. Look at the warranties offered. BB, Lion and some others offer 10 yr warranty.

I put 4 LE batteries in my Roadtrek and replaced all the electronics with Victron components which has been awesome. Basically I turned it on in May after I did the install and have not had to think about it since. It just works! And I have monitoring that tells me everything I could want to know about the system.

You have 12 (!) Batteries?

How many ah do you have?

Do you have special requirements?

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

You have 12 (!) Batteries?

How many ah do you have?

Do you have special requirements?

Our 2020 Galleria has a 12 volt air conditioner and we use it quite a bit. We bought the RV new and it had a 330ah AGM battery. I knew very quickly I wanted to upgrade, and build a system that provided freedom from having to connect to 120 volt.

The 12 Lion batteries provide 1260ah of juice.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by dmb496

The 12 Lion batteries provide 1260ah of juice.

That is impressive. I think you hold the record for this site.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by dmb496

Our 2020 Galleria has a 12 volt air conditioner and we use it quite a bit. We bought the RV new and it had a 330ah AGM battery. I knew very quickly I wanted to upgrade, and build a system that provided freedom from having to connect to 120 volt.

The 12 Lion batteries provide 1260ah of juice.

When charging and after charging, do you find that the batteries I circled in this image:
P1060403.jpg


are at a lower voltage than the batteries at the other end? I worked with long strings of parallel cells and found that the middle cells were quite a bit lower (when charging opposite ends). If so, you can solve it with additional wiring.

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by markopolo

When charging and after charging, do you find that the batteries I circled in this image:
Attachment 12241


are at a lower voltage than the batteries at the other end? I worked with long strings of parallel cells and found that the middle cells were quite a bit lower (when charging opposite ends). If so, you can solve it with additional wiring.

I can't answer as I've not measured. Now that you've asked, I will in the near future.

If I find voltage differences, what wiring additions are you suggesting?Here's another photo of the cabling at the outfeed end.

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by avanti

That is impressive. I think you hold the record for this site.

Thanks for the high 5.

Boondocking is easy now. Two months ago we parked the Galleria on shore in sunny 85 degree weather, at 11 am, and left the AC running. Then hopped a ferry and went to Martha's Vineyard. 6 hours later we returned to the Galleria, camped overnight, AC still cycling on and off. Next morning we left for the next travel leg at 9 am. Still had 42% battery power available.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by dmb496

I can't answer as I've not measured. Now that you've asked, I will in the near future.

If I find voltage differences, what wiring additions are you suggesting?Here's another photo of the cabling at the outfeed end.

It should also be noticeable when discharging. If the batteries are at rest long enough it they might balance out but the batteries with the load/charging cables attached will do the most work. Resistance accumulates with each subsequent connection.

Yours would be most like method 2 here: SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

It would need jumpers to bypass some of the connections so the load/charging also pulls/puts in at least the middle. a jump from the ends (battery #1 & #12) to the middle (battery #6 & #7) might be enough. If not, an additional jump to battery #3 & #10 might be needed.

[themexicandoctor]

Valuable insight Marko.

Was the build simply to give you abundant reserve for AC use or do you have other substantial draws?

Why not 660?

It seems like a huge investment in money & space for the AC benefit for someone who lives in the North*

*a presumption

I must say it is very impressive indeed.

What do you use for Charging?

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by markopolo

It should also be noticeable when discharging. If the batteries are at rest long enough it they might balance out but the batteries with the load/charging cables attached will do the most work. Resistance accumulates with each subsequent connection.

Yours would be most like method 2 here: SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

It would need jumpers to bypass some of the connections so the load/charging also pulls/puts in at least the middle. a jump from the ends (battery #1 & #12) to the middle (battery #6 & #7) might be enough. If not, an additional jump to battery #3 & #10 might be needed.

I very much appreciate your input. After reading the logic in the document you attached, I've decided to make the cabling upgrade.

David

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Valuable insight Marko.

Was the build simply to give you abundant reserve for AC use or do you have other substantial draws?

Why not 660?

It seems like a huge investment in money & space for the AC benefit for someone who lives in the North*

*a presumption

I must say it is very impressive indeed.

What do you use for Charging?

My batteries "a huge investment?" I/we consider the purchase of a new class B RV to be a huge investment. Motor home travel is a luxury, something we couldn't afford during the child-raising, home payoff years. What we did when buying a new 2020 Galleria was a splurge. But...we're in the 4th quarter of our lives and are taking advantage of the ability to do this, find some new pleasures and enjoyment, before we forget each other's name.

We live in the middle Atlantic area, yet 70% of the traveling we did this year was in the south; Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi and Florida. Heck, we were on the Pennsylvania Turnpike one day and the temp bounced back and forth between 98 and 101 for hours. I had the Mercedes dash AC on high, and the coach AC running at the same time.


I decided on 12 batteries because I could. Here's a quote I sometimes refer to. "If enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right."

I removed the Coachmen-provided generator and sold it. I never used it prior to the lithium upgrade. Now, the principle charging is from a Nations Alternator, 3-belt 280 amp kit I installed. It pushes 200+ amps per hour into the lithium battery bank as we travel to our next location.

I consider solar power to be supplementary and not an alternative. My RV came with 3 panels totaling 300 watts already installed. Those 3 flexible panels are less than 2 years old and already becoming cloudy on the surface. I'm replacing them with 3 rigid panels in the spring. The rigid units are more efficient and will outlast the flexible units by about 8-10 years. The flexible panels also lay flat on the roof of the RV and transfer substantial heat through the top of the vehicle because they are so thin and cover 20+ square feet. The new rigid panels will be positioned about 1.5-2" above the metal roof of the RV. The reduction in thermal transfer will be a side benefit. Do I need to do this conversion? No, it's an option.

I've also removed the original PWM solar controller and replaced it with a more efficient MPPT controller.

The electrical upgrade was part of my effort to cut the cords, so we could be more independent of campgrounds. I've added a 24 gallon fresh water tank, and we now have 50 gallons of fresh water at the push of a button. I transfer 24 gallons of water from an auxiliary tank to the primary tank. I also installed a heater on the aux. tank.

We never used the black tank after purchasing our Galleria. Subsequently I removed the factory-installed wet toilet, and installed an Air Head composting (actually a dehydrating toilet) and we're both totally satisfied with the change. Doing so has allowed me to combine the gray tank with the black tank, via new plumbing and a dedicated macerator pump. When the gray tank reaches its capacity, I transfer the contents to the black tank, with the push of a button. This change provides 42 gallons of gray water storage.

Did I need to do this? No, it was an option.

[booster]

The 200 amp hours per hour is interesting as it is a bit higher than we normally see. Typical would be closer to 165 amp hour per hour. Is it running and a Balmar and cycling on the high alternator temp turn down at all?

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by booster

The 200 amp hours per hour is interesting as it is a bit higher than we normally see. Typical would be closer to 165 amp hour per hour. Is it running and a Balmar and cycling on the high alternator temp turn down at all?

We typically begin traveling with our SOC showing 50-60%, as we have consumed 400-700ah of battery power. When the charge event reaches the last 60-70ah, the charging input begins dropping to 160ah and less.

I use a Victron app to monitor real time activity at the battery bank. The number I stated is what I see while driving. Occasionally it ramps down, likely to reduce demand of the alternator. Yes, the charging activity is controlled by a Balmar MC-614.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by dmb496

...................
I decided on 12 batteries because I could. Here's a quote I sometimes refer to. "If enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right."........

"If enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right."........Interesting formula, unfortunately not always correct especially with “known uknowns” but unintended consequences.

Is the battery box tiedown to the floor?

Do you have any way to monitor internal resistance of each battery? 12 batteries in parallel, that is a lot of batteries. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...78775313019447

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

"If enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right."........Interesting formula, unfortunately not always correct especially with “known uknowns” but unintended consequences.

Is the battery box tiedown to the floor?

Do you have any way to monitor internal resistance of each battery? 12 batteries in parallel, that is a lot of batteries. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...78775313019447

Some forum members appear to itch for a spirited discussion.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by dmb496

Some forum members appear to itch for a spirited discussion.

Not spirited, just technical. Good luck with our installation.

[booster]

Originally Posted by dmb496

We typically begin traveling with our SOC showing 50-60%, as we have consumed 400-700ah of battery power. When the charge event reaches the last 60-70ah, the charging input begins dropping to 160ah and less.

I use a Victron app to monitor real time activity at the battery bank. The number I stated is what I see while driving. Occasionally it ramps down, likely to reduce demand of the alternator. Yes, the charging activity is controlled by a Balmar MC-614.

If the 200 is aan short period of amps to the batteries number during the times the alternator is in normal output mode, not hot turn down, that would be pretty typical.

[MsNomer]

Don't ask "why". Ask "why not".

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by dmb496

My batteries "a huge investment?" I/we consider the purchase of a new class B RV to be a huge investment. Motor home travel is a luxury, something we couldn't afford during the child-raising, home payoff years. What we did when buying a new 2020 Galleria was a splurge. But...we're in the 4th quarter of our lives and are taking advantage of the ability to do this, find some new pleasures and enjoyment, before we forget each other's name.

We live in the middle Atlantic area, yet 70% of the traveling we did this year was in the south; Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi and Florida. Heck, we were on the Pennsylvania Turnpike one day and the temp bounced back and forth between 98 and 101 for hours. I had the Mercedes dash AC on high, and the coach AC running at the same time.


I decided on 12 batteries because I could. Here's a quote I sometimes refer to. "If enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right."

I removed the Coachmen-provided generator and sold it. I never used it prior to the lithium upgrade. Now, the principle charging is from a Nations Alternator, 3-belt 280 amp kit I installed. It pushes 200+ amps per hour into the lithium battery bank as we travel to our next location.

I consider solar power to be supplementary and not an alternative. My RV came with 3 panels totaling 300 watts already installed. Those 3 flexible panels are less than 2 years old and already becoming cloudy on the surface. I'm replacing them with 3 rigid panels in the spring. The rigid units are more efficient and will outlast the flexible units by about 8-10 years. The flexible panels also lay flat on the roof of the RV and transfer substantial heat through the top of the vehicle because they are so thin and cover 20+ square feet. The new rigid panels will be positioned about 1.5-2" above the metal roof of the RV. The reduction in thermal transfer will be a side benefit. Do I need to do this conversion? No, it's an option.

I've also removed the original PWM solar controller and replaced it with a more efficient MPPT controller.

The electrical upgrade was part of my effort to cut the cords, so we could be more independent of campgrounds. I've added a 24 gallon fresh water tank, and we now have 50 gallons of fresh water at the push of a button. I transfer 24 gallons of water from an auxiliary tank to the primary tank. I also installed a heater on the aux. tank.

We never used the black tank after purchasing our Galleria. Subsequently I removed the factory-installed wet toilet, and installed an Air Head composting (actually a dehydrating toilet) and we're both totally satisfied with the change. Doing so has allowed me to combine the gray tank with the black tank, via new plumbing and a dedicated macerator pump. When the gray tank reaches its capacity, I transfer the contents to the black tank, with the push of a button. This change provides 42 gallons of gray water storage.

Did I need to do this? No, it was an option.

Thank you, excellent answers!

I removed the Toilet but not the black tank plumbing & use a couple of Thetford Porta Potti cassettes & like your idea - my Roadtrek tanks are 23 Gray & 10 Black gallons & I would gladly have switched both to black if it was easy to save on that chore.

What process did you use? (might be a valuable thread to start for other Galeria owners).

I just checked out their website, easy to understand, simple & direct - a month's use for two people before emptying? Is that the yield you are experiencing?

With all the battery reserve, did you ever consider the "incinerator toilets version" as an option?

Next time you are in Los Angeles please let me know as I would like to park next to you & equalize my batteries...

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Thank you, excellent answers!

I removed the Toilet but not the black tank plumbing & use a couple of Thetford Porta Potti cassettes & like your idea - my Roadtrek tanks are 23 Gray & 10 Black gallons & I would gladly have switched both to black if it was easy to save on that chore.

What process did you use? (might be a valuable thread to start for other Galeria owners).

I just checked out their website, easy to understand, simple & direct - a month's use for two people before emptying? Is that the yield you are experiencing?

With all the battery reserve, did you ever consider the "incinerator toilets version" as an option?

Next time you are in Los Angeles please let me know as I would like to park next to you & equalize my batteries...

I added a 1" hose to the gray tank, routed that hose to a macerator pump, and connected the macerator pump to the black tank with another 1" hose.

All factory black and gray tank plumbing is still in place and in its original configuration. When our Galleria is for sale, if the new owner prefers the original Thetford wet toilet, I can make the conversion in less than 1 hour.

Our Air Head solid tank requires emptying every 3 weeks. The urine tank is full every 2-2.5 days. We have a 2nd urine tank if needed.

I knew nothing about the electric incinerator toilet until 2 days ago. I may have seriously considered it had I known of it 15 months ago.