Advanced RV using battery system from Volta

[gregmchugh]

https://rv-pro.com/news/volta-power-...A2MDg3MzU3NAS2

[GeorgeRa]

Just wonder which one would be less expensive; the Volta System versus a towable $30K Nissan Leaf with an inverter, a generator, wires, 30kWh oomph, and a gratis small car

[BBQ]

.

This is exciting news.

I like innovations,
especially those that are driven by people with knowledge and passion.

[gregmchugh]

No info on which of the Volta system components will be used but Volta uses 48v for the battery bank, inverter, alternator, and they use a DC-DC converter to get 12v.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

No info on which of the Volta system components will be used but Volta uses 48v for the battery bank, inverter, alternator, and they use a DC-DC converter to get 12v.

This is almost exactly the type of system that we have discussed here several times as being the more practical in a big battery capacity RV. High(er) voltage charging, inverter, and batteries, and run the leftover 12v stuff on a DC to DC converter.

Smaller wires, less weight, less heat generated, probably more efficient alternator, and still under the 50 volt threshold that is often put on safety.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

This is almost exactly the type of system that we have discussed here several times as being the more practical in a big battery capacity RV. High(er) voltage charging, inverter, and batteries, and run the leftover 12v stuff on a DC to DC converter.

Smaller wires, less weight, less heat generated, probably more efficient alternator, and still under the 50 volt threshold that is often put on safety.

Look at the specs on the Volta 48v alternator...

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Look at the specs on the Volta 48v alternator...

I can't get anything Volta to open, just spins. Got a link?

Finally opened. 48v, 190 amps. They appear to really spin it, though, with a turn on speed of 2700 shaft rpm. To get turned on at idle of 600 rpm, you would be looking at between 15 and 20K rpm at highway speeds. Not an issue as long as it can handle it, and it will move a lot of air at those speeds or cooling. 35# is believable as the current will be low so small and easier to cool windings.

It would be capable of something like 3X the output of even the Delco alternator, and those are said to consume about 7hp (like an Onan of similar size), so unless the Volta is very, very, much more efficient, it is going to take a lot of hp, perhaps close to 20hp at full load. On a small engine like a Sprinter has, one would have to start being concerned over wear and tear on the drive system for it, if they are off the front of the engine. I assume it will be on a separate drive than the other parts, but you are looking at some pretty big side loads on the front main bearing of the engine. The bigger diesels that they have been doing for folks like Prevost are much more designed to handle big accessory drives. It would also slow down the van climbing steep hills as that definitely a "feelable" amount of power loss in smaller engines.

[mojoman]

Liberty Coach started using that system last year. Maybe there is more info on their site.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

No info on which of the Volta system components will be used but Volta uses 48v for the battery bank, inverter, alternator, and they use a DC-DC converter to get 12v.

... and it has been reported that the new generation Sprinters will likely have a 48V start-stop mild hybrid system.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[mojoman]

If they are using LTO cells, they are quite expensive. They were available at the vender when I built my pack but were over 4x the cost. The temp parameters of the cells where much higher than prismatic cells. -5F to 131F which would accommodate exterior mounting.

[Davydd]

I knew about the demo model, named Escape. ARV tracks all builds by names. It is not a model. It was suppose to be completed about a week ago so they have it already. I didn't know specifically about the Volta development but only that it would have many innovations.

ARV is getting serious about development. It is no Mom and Pop shop as many thought. There are some other things to be announced.

[SiennaGuy]

I'm glad the ARV is pushing the RV envelope. Their innovations (hopefully) will eventually trickle down to the mass builders. As they become more common, these technologies will also get cheaper. ARV might even inspire some low-tech improvements in build quality!

[gregmchugh]

Advanced RV certainly innovates but it seems to me that they are smart enough to limit the areas where they actually perform the detailed design and development work to those items where they have expertise and bring in outside suppliers for other items especially in electronics and electrical system components. They have avoided the significant development time, cost, and risk of performing lithium battery system development internally and continue to use high quality third party components that require very little design and development work beyond packaging and some integration into the overall electrical system. Advanced RV does have the advantage of not competing in the price sensitive portion of the market so any higher costs associated with this strategy do not really limit sales at their end of the market at least at the sales volumes they are shooting for.

[Davydd]

Greg,

I am sure ARV would bed to differ in your comment:

They have avoided the significant development time, cost, and risk of performing lithium battery system development internally and continue to use high quality third party components that require very little design and development work beyond packaging and some integration into the overall electrical system.

They are committed to find the best high-quality components available at the time, but they partner with several companies to bring them forth in a workable manner and they bench test and field test before offering them, including Mike Neundorfer, the owner, taking several road trips before signing off. Their previous lithium ion battery strategy was bench tested for probably a year before bringing it out. They have considerable in-house expertise as well and don't entirely rely on spoon fed third party support. I believe the lithium ion strategy in my B was a partnership of 16 companies (don't quote me on that) to bring it all together. I took my B to Elite Power Solutions in Arizona, the battery supplier, and they saw ARV's effort for the first time and were impressed.

So far, ARV is not in the business of customer volume or cost reduction when it comes to components. They go after the best available and apparently leave no stone unturned. Their customers rely on this approach. I know I do.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Greg,

I am sure ARV would bed to differ in your comment:

They have avoided the significant development time, cost, and risk of performing lithium battery system development internally and continue to use high quality third party components that require very little design and development work beyond packaging and some integration into the overall electrical system.

They are committed to find the best high-quality components available at the time, but they partner with several companies to bring them forth in a workable manner and they bench test and field test before offering them, including Mike Neundorfer, the owner, taking several road trips before signing off. Their previous lithium ion battery strategy was bench tested for probably a year before bringing it out. They have considerable in-house expertise as well and don't entirely rely on spoon fed third party support. I believe the lithium ion strategy in my B was a partnership of 16 companies (don't quote me on that) to bring it all together. I took my B to Elite Power Solutions in Arizona, the battery supplier, and they saw ARV's effort for the first time and were impressed.

So far, ARV is not in the business of customer volume or cost reduction when it comes to components. They go after the best available and apparently leave no stone unturned. Their customers rely on this approach. I know I do.

I guess I could have been clearer in my comment. Yes, they do a high quality job of system component evaluation/selection, system integration and system testing but they do not attempt to design and build electronics or electrical system components. Using outside suppliers who have the expertise that you don't have internally and that you do not wish to develop internally as a long term goal is simply a sensible approach. This latest partnership with Volta is a continuation of this strategy and I am sure that they are doing a great job of insuring that the Volta system works when integrated into the rest of the systems in the van. The excellent customer satisfaction that they enjoy proves that the strategy is working for them.

Feel free to tell me where I am getting this wrong...

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

............Using outside suppliers who have the expertise that you don't have internally and that you do not wish to develop internally as a long term goal is simply a sensible approach. .................

+1

It makes sense to focus on items such as design, cabinetry, quality control & other items that can't be easily or readily purchased from a supplier.

B builders buy paint, TVs, speakers, pumps, toilets, appliances, furnaces, fridges, sinks etc. They don't waste time money & effort trying to manufacture those items in house.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I guess I could have been clearer in my comment. Yes, they do a high quality job of system component evaluation/selection, system integration and system testing but they do not attempt to design and build electronics or electrical system components. Using outside suppliers who have the expertise that you don't have internally and that you do not wish to develop internally as a long term goal is simply a sensible approach. This latest partnership with Volta is a continuation of this strategy and I am sure that they are doing a great job of insuring that the Volta system works when integrated into the rest of the systems in the van. The excellent customer satisfaction that they enjoy proves that the strategy is working for them.

Feel free to tell me where I am getting this wrong...

OK, well they don't claim proprietary.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

OK, well they don't claim proprietary.

Not sure why you found anything negative about ARV in my comments, I was praising their strategy for picking what to develop themselves vs source from outside. As near as I can tell they have pretty well optimized this strategy with very few issues encountered by customers relative to the complexity of the systems in the van. No reason to worry much about doing anything proprietary since there is really no one else competing with them in their niche market.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Davydd

OK, well they don't claim proprietary.

Agree - unlike that other B-van maker RT; who make everything proprietary, mostly because their developed stuff doesn't work that well.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Agree - unlike that other B-van maker RT; who make everything proprietary, mostly because their developed stuff doesn't work that well.

The RT batteries and inverter are proprietary. What else?

What is "developed stuff"?