Advanced RV using battery system from Volta

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The RT batteries and inverter are proprietary. What else?

What is "developed stuff"?

VoltStart


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[BBQ]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The RT batteries and inverter are proprietary. What else?

What is "developed stuff"?

Interactive Coach Connect

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The RT batteries and inverter are proprietary. What else?

What is "developed stuff"?

The inverter and the solar controller are pretty much off-the-shelf units from China. My impression is that they are only minimally modified for Roadtrek with no major changes in performance or operation.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The RT batteries and inverter are proprietary. What else?



What is "developed stuff"?

Their battery system and control circuits and anything else they design themselves, claiming it is proprietary.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

The inverter and the solar controller are pretty much off-the-shelf units from China. My impression is that they are only minimally modified for Roadtrek with no major changes in performance or operation.

For a while the 2.5 kw inverter was built by Ames but I was told is now supplied by a Canadian vendor that for all we know has it built by Ames My solar controller is a Tracer 3215 off the shelf from Epsolar in China. RT implements the programming for these units but provides no owner operating manuals for either unit, but that hardly makes them proprietary. The BMS most likely is.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Their battery system and control circuits and anything else they design themselves, claiming it is proprietary.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

If you design it yourself you don't have to claim it's proprietary because it is proprietary.

[Davydd]

Here is Advanced RV's video release on the Volta system installation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofCcnxJxzeE

[gregmchugh]

Very nice. It will be interesting to find out the details of the battery bank AH capacity.

[Davydd]

It would be easy enough to call and find out but as anxious enough as I am I am holding out for a 2019 Sprinter so have plenty of time to mull over it.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It would be easy enough to call and find out but as anxious enough as I am I am holding out for a 2019 Sprinter so have plenty of time to mull over it.

Based on the info on the Volta website, probably around 1300 AH at 12v for the
350 lb battery module. Just wonder if ARV will have them package a smaller battery module as an option.

[BBQ]

.


Just like the portable drills going to 20v,
I can see more battery packs will be migrating to the 48v system.
The higher voltage makes sense; the loss in the 12v system is just not efficient for high capacity banks.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Just like the portable drills going to 20v,
I can see more battery packs will be migrating to the 48v system.
The higher voltage makes sense; the loss in the 12v system is just not efficient for high capacity banks.

When you consider that the biggest 12VDC load is the inverter going to 48VDC makes the most since. 48V inverters are the standard in telecom industry and very efficient. A modest DC-DC converter can easily handle the other 12VDC loads.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

If you design it yourself you don't have to claim it's proprietary because it is proprietary.

True - what they designed is unquestionable theirs. But RT seems unwilling to give owners information on their systems to properly operate and maintain them like most other manufacturers.

For example when I requested wiring diagrams from Airstream for my 2013 Interstate they provided them all but one that they said was not for release. In 2015 they started putting all the wiring diagrams in back of owners manuals. Airstream also provides access to all years parts catalogs.

Take a look at Winnebago - they have all their technical data online including plumbing diagrams.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[booster]

As stated the design belongs to Roadtrek, but it is highly likely that the technology isn't theirs unless they have patents on it.

The not releasing the wiring diagrams mainly has to do with keeping folks from checking out and repairing things instead of going to a Roadtrek dealer, I think, who will sell them and entire assembly regardless of how small the problem really is.

Just imagine how easy it would be to read and monitor their parasitic loss if you had a wiring diagram to go by to know where to read it.

This is all very similar to the pre-OBD electronics the car manufacturers would not release information on. They tried to freeze out all the independent repair shops by making it impossible to troubleshoot because they couldn't get the test equipment to do it.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

True - what they designed is unquestionable theirs. But RT seems unwilling to give owners information on their systems to properly operate and maintain them like most other manufacturers.

For example when I requested wiring diagrams from Airstream for my 2013 Interstate they provided them all but one that they said was not for release. In 2015 they started putting all the wiring diagrams in back of owners manuals. Airstream also provides access to all years parts catalogs.

Take a look at Winnebago - they have all their technical data online including plumbing diagrams.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Hey, I share both your frustration and irritation with RT's withholding information on various components in their coaches.

But if you stand in the shoes of the OEM, perhaps there is some method in their stinginess. It's unarguable that the complexity of modern coaches is increasing exponentially and as a result there is an increasing population of RV owners that don't have the backgrounds for even understanding, much less monitoring and maintaining the Etrek electronics now being stuffed into these coaches. And dealer orientation apparently is, to put it mildly, cursory.

IMO, The RT 6 year warranty on all of this high tech stuff is, for them, one big financial matzoh ball that can only be exacerbated by unskilled owners tinkering with this equipment with potentially damaging consequences. For example, their solar controllers come with no information whatsoever and I hazard the guess that their concern is that providing documentation invites the tinkering with the solar controller programming that could end up killing the lithium batteries. which RT would be obligated to replace.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Hey, I share both your frustration and irritation with RT's withholding information on various components in their coaches.

But if you stand in the shoes of the OEM, perhaps there is some method in their stinginess. It's unarguable that the complexity of modern coaches is increasing exponentially and as a result there is an increasing population of RV owners that don't have the backgrounds for even understanding, much less monitoring and maintaining the Etrek electronics now being stuffed into these coaches. And dealer orientation apparently is, to put it mildly, cursory.

IMO, The RT 6 year warranty on all of this high tech stuff is, for them, one big financial matzoh ball that can only be exacerbated by unskilled owners tinkering with this equipment with potentially damaging consequences. For example, their solar controllers come with no information whatsoever and I hazard the guess that their concern is that providing documentation invites the tinkering with the solar controller programming that could end up killing the lithium batteries. which RT would be obligated to replace.

I think you give Roadtrek too much credit in regards to motive. I agree that the 6 year warranty is a huge financial risk for them, but only if the actually back it up fully. The etrek fiasco proved that out when they wouldn't replace bad batteries, and wouldn't add a balancer until an owner paid to have an expert track the system and wiring and determine it needed one. The owner paid for the balancer and all the rest and if fixed his problems for the most part, but Roadtrek still wouldn't help out others until the solution got lots of following on the forums.

My belief is that the really don't want anyone to find the warts and weaknesses in the systems and to make sure all the repairs are at a Roadtrek dealer. The simple fact that they don't include any real monitoring strongly implies that folks would see substandard performance compared to claims, just like the parasitic loss issue. With big parasitic, and no monitoring on the charging systems, no one knows what is going on, so they can't say it isn't doing as promised unless it is grossly obvious like a module going dead in a couple of days with no use, or AC that will run 4 hours instead of all night (etrek again).

I would equate the Roadtrek systems to buying a car with no gas gauge that told you to fill the gas tank every 337 miles, but not how much it holds or what mileage it gets. How much further can you go before you need to fill up when you hit 286 miles? Oh, and by sure to fill up at pumps that don't tell you how much gas you put in.

Even the most tech adverse folks can look at a % battery gauge to find out how much power they have left, as they can read a gas gauge OK in their car OK.

[gregmchugh]

With RT sales strong and the majority of buyers happy with their vans and happy with the service they get from RT, it would seem that all the issues being highlighted here may not be very critical to the success of RT...

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

With RT sales strong and the majority of buyers happy with their vans and happy with the service they get from RT, it would seem that all the issues being highlighted here may not be very critical to the success of RT...

Agree - RT sales numbers shown regularly on this forum are strong. But they only sell B-vans that in the total RV market are only a small share.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Agree - RT sales numbers shown regularly on this forum are strong. But they only sell B-vans that in the total RV market are only a small share.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

With the new manufacturing plant starting up production of small travel trailers and one would expect their plans for Class C and probably Class A models at some point in the future it would seem that sales will go beyond being just a Class B producer. Lots of interesting smaller European RV options in all types and classes from Hymer Group that should fill a hole in the market over here.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

With RT sales strong and the majority of buyers happy with their vans and happy with the service they get from RT, it would seem that all the issues being highlighted here may not be very critical to the success of RT...

They've certainly had their Etrek fiascos which it seems they have mostly, if belatedly, resolved. I notice, however that for some vocal critics, that long after the song has ended, the melody lingers on.

IMO, what distinguishes RT from mainstream B offerings is their technology. With the exception of custom builders, it's at this point in time, exclusive. No one else offers what they do. It's the reason I bought their product. By comparison, WGOs, PWs, et al still hang in there with conventional technology. But that said, I think it's only a matter of time before they embrace recent technical advances which will level the playing field and eliminate RT's competitive advantage.