A different lithium battery heater setup

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

Do you know what brand alternator ARV is using now instead of Nations?

[Davydd]

I don't. All I know are three things. They said when they built mine they couldn't make it cost effective. After testing they will eliminate the forced air ducted fan for direct cooling. They say it is better. Maybe someone with a recent delivery would more info.

[Tenbike2]

Our ARV (G'Day) is due to be completed Friday. I spoke with Mike G and he told me it has the Delco 320 amp alternator in it. They had tested it on a rental and it had worked well. I don't know a model number. We will not be able to pick it up until the middle of March. Jim

[gregmchugh]

This looks like it could be it, a high end Delco 320 amp

Medium & Heavy Duty Alternators | Delco Remy

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

This looks like it could be it, a high end Delco 320 amp

Medium & Heavy Duty Alternators | Delco Remy

Could be, but boy that thing is massive for a van engine compartment. It looks to have a huge internal cooling fan, though, if ventilation is the issue (duct elimination mentioned).

Cooling ducts for alternators can be an issue for reasons unrelated to cooling, also. Especially the low mount, ducted, units units can suck water in certain circumstances which can be very hard on them. Hopefully, ARV or a newer owner will have some details, as a lot of other RVs are using the Nations setup.

If they just want more output, it would be easy to go bigger in a similar alternator to the 270ah the were using. I think that alternator is made by DC Power and also comes in a 300,320,370 sizes IIRC. I think the wiring would limit out somewhere in the 300-320amp max range, though.

[avanti]

This issue of ducted cooling is interesting. Note that the Balmar regulator/charger has an (optional) alternator temperature sensor which permits it to throttle-down the output of the alternator in order to control the alternator temperature. So, extra cooling is not necessary for safety or longevity. The advantage of it lies entirely in a bit of extra output, and then only if the alternator temperature is the long pole in the tent. I suspect that in practice this is a pretty minor issue.

[booster]

Alternators do tend to turn themselves down pretty quickly as they heat up. OEM quicker than high output aftermarket stuff. High end aftermarket can even get to 100% duty cycle if you get a good enough one.

DC engineering does a decent job of giving hot and cold amps at idle and full output for many of their units, so it is interesting to see the difference. They also list some rewound OEM style and list the same data for them which drops much more when hot and at idle.

Thermal mass plus cooling capacity will determine when they get hot enough to turn down. Cooling capacity will determine what the final max output is under any given conditions.

Ducting in cool air can make a difference in cooling and thus output, but just as important is that the hot air coming out of the alternator needs to be able to get away without looping back in or heating the area around the alternator. If the air that gets in can't get out, it doesn't do any good. Sometimes just adding a small baffle around the alternator bottom, if it is mounted low, can cause a really nice low pressure area from the air going under the vehicle and exhaust the air. Same principle as putting a small spoiler under the radiator to create a low pressure area behind it to create better radiator airflow. It is much tougher to get good cooling on an alternator on the top of the engine.

I am sure once ARV explains what the did and why, it will make perfect sense.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I am sure once ARV explains what the did and why, it will make perfect sense.

Maybe. But, I do have to say [DavyDD, please stop reading here.] that ARV's design philosophy is often heavily skewed toward absolute effectiveness rather than cost-effectiveness. If they can think of things that might help, they tend to Just Do It. This sometimes leads to belt-and-suspenders solutions that wouldn't hold up to a cost-effectiveness analysis. One example is their use of an expensive shore power protection system that is largely redundant with checks that are already done by the inverter/charger that they use.

Nothing wrong with this. "Only the best" is their brand and it serves them well. But, their decisions aren't always the best models for anyone who cares about cost.

[Davydd]

Sigh! So now best isn't good.

It's the pontificating speculative babbling on subjects you have no experience that goes on here that drives me up the wall. I said it before. ARV has no proprietary "black box." If you want to know what they are doing and why then call them. Better yet you are not that far away in PA. Go to an Advanced Fest and see first hand.

Have to keep this short. I'm sitting in the Arizona desert with my iPhone. Out and about enjoying my B. 33,000 miles in a year now. No speculating how things work.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Sigh! So now best isn't good.

Originally Posted by avanti

Nothing wrong with this.

I give up!

P.S. -- Why do you keep implying that I am ignorant of ARVs technology? Have I EVER made a factually incorrect claim about them?

[gregmchugh]

I was hoping the warm weather would improve his mood...

[Davydd]

Im tired of all your **** remarks when invoking my name in your comments. Keep your personal comments out and maybe I might not respond if that is your wish.

I would also hope all of you would get off your duffs, go out and actually tour in your Bs, and clear your minds of all your mindless speculations.

OK, for the next few days I speculate I will be near the Mexican/Arizona border and most likely off the cellular grid again. Boondocking in its purist form.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Im tired of all your **** remarks when invoking my name in your comments. Keep your personal comments out and maybe I might not respond if that is your wish.

If THAT is the issue, then I apologize. I thought my references to your screen name were all lighthearted. Won't happen again.

[gmillerok1]

Originally Posted by avanti

Maybe. But, I do have to say [DavyDD, please stop reading here.] that ARV's design philosophy is often heavily skewed toward absolute effectiveness rather than cost-effectiveness. If they can think of things that might help, they tend to Just Do It. This sometimes leads to belt-and-suspenders solutions that wouldn't hold up to a cost-effectiveness analysis. One example is their use of an expensive shore power protection system that is largely redundant with checks that are already done by the inverter/charger that they use.

Nothing wrong with this. "Only the best" is their brand and it serves them well. But, their decisions aren't always the best models for anyone who cares about cost.

I am thinking about a Roadtrek Etrek or an ARV. One big factor is cost as in speaking with ARV's owner, the vans go for the low $200,000's to low $300,000, which is too rich for me. A fully decked out Etrek with 600 watts solar and Eco1600 package is around $135,000 out the door. No, it is not an ARV, but I may have an extra $100,000 in my pocket. In ten years they will both be worth the same more or less.

[wincrasher]

It appears that ARV has bumped up prices in the last year by a healthy amount. Everyone else has as well, as we all know. It just seems that when Roadtrek increased their's to the point that the fully loaded CS Adventurous got close, they increased so much that there really isn't any comparison.

[gregmchugh]

Roadtrek seems to have enough customers buying at their current prices to keep them busy so I expect they will keep thing where they are price wise. I think there may be no practical strategy anymore for the Roadtrek brand to regain the sales lead over Winnebago. At the current prices I would like to see Roadtrek justify the price with build quality similar to the other Hymer Group brands and upgrades to some of the low cost components that are not appropriate at their price point, e.g., inverters, cabinet hardware, solar controllers. I think there is a viable strategy for Erwin Hymer Group North America to significantly increase sales numbers with the added Hymer Class B models but whether they can overtake Winnebago with all their models at higher price points vs Winnebago seems unlikely.

I do think there is a lot of potential for the Hymer Class C models with their European designs and compact size relative to the competition. Their Class C models are barely larger than their Class Bs and in some cases actually smaller.

Of course the Hymer Group Class A models are not really very big either, similar in size to the smallest North American Class A models like the Winnebago Via on the Sprinter chassis, which others have pointed out bears a remarkable external resemblance to a Hymer.