24hr A/C runtime on batteries - how to do it?

[markopolo]

In late 2012 I asked Sprinter Engineering Support about idling and received an email from them with the following info:

Per your request, with the SCR technology of our engines, we do not recommend idling a Sprinter for longer periods than 2.5 - 3 hours.
Even with the high idle engaged, you should not exceed the aforementioned times to avoid clogging the DPF or damages to the EGR valve.
Fyi, the fuel consumption is .4 - . 5gal. per hour of idling.

By capping it at 2 hours, Advanced RV is comfortably within the recommendation.

[bikerbill]

Naysayers were saying you should not and cannot idle ANY length of time with the new DPF systems. BUT Mercedes customer service told me up to an hour, no problem, then take it for a drive and then another hour, no problem.

All the "experts" are out there but I too the time to call Mercedes and I'm on record with their comments and answers.

[bikerbill]

I stand corrected, BIG TIME. I took the time to go back on my Facebook and get the July 24th posting.
Mercedes allows up to 2 hours idling.

Their comment is, "We recommend that you do not idle the engine for more than 2 hours at any one time and then if you still need to have it running, drive if for maybe 20-30 minutes on the road so as to properly dislodge the buildup that MAY be developing in the emissions system."

[booster]

Originally Posted by bikerbill

Naysayers were saying you should not and cannot idle ANY length of time with the new DPF systems. BUT Mercedes customer service told me up to an hour, no problem, then take it for a drive and then another hour, no problem.

All the "experts" are out there but I too the time to call Mercedes and I'm on record with their comments and answers.

Wow, I did get it the right way, but what are the naysayers basing the no idling on. I have never heard that out of even the biggest skeptics. What do you do when you are stuck in traffic?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by bikerbill

Naysayers were saying you should not and cannot idle ANY length of time with the new DPF systems. BUT Mercedes customer service told me up to an hour, no problem, then take it for a drive and then another hour, no problem.

All the "experts" are out there but I too the time to call Mercedes and I'm on record with their comments and answers.

of course you can idle with a sprinter. the dpf system does require higher temperatures and regenerations for the best cleaning. However it's a gradual thing. the small dpf will fill up at about 150,000 miles and have to be cleaned or replaced. the more idling leading up to this can cause premature clean/replacement.

it's not an exact science-but if it never happened there wouldn't be so many posts about it.

[Davydd]

My idling information came in a room with a Mercedes rep at Advanced RV fest. I'm fine with it. Advanced RV thinks Mercedes is being conservative on the issue. After all, it is in their interest to. Here are my notes in the meeting:

Three methods for charging sans propane generator:

Shore Power
Solar
Second 200 amp alternator - engine idling or driving.

High idle takes about 1/2 gallon diesel per hour.

Safe to idle up to 3 hours per day as long as there is a 30-45 minute drive between idles.

Silverleaf total coach control can autostart engine if low battery is detected and idle engine up to 2 hours. It would then shut down. If you step on brake to engage transmission the engine will also shut down.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

My idling information came in a room with a Mercedes rep at Advanced RV fest. I'm fine with it. Advanced RV thinks Mercedes is being conservative on the issue. After all, it is in their interest to. Here are my notes in the meeting:

davydd- is that 3 consecutive hours in 24 hours? just wondering.

[Davydd]

I think and am pretty sure it is 3 consecutive hours. Those were just my extemporaneous notes in my assumption no one would idle, drive and idle again for all practical purposes. In other words you would plan your day, get your idle in with the assumption you might get up and drive the next day or afterwards. It just means you better plan to drive after 3 hours of idle. Not endorsed but one comment was made in testing you could idle 8 hours with no adverse effect but no one was going to say it was OK.

I kind of look at all this with a bit of amusement since I never ran my Onan generator on the road with the purpose of charging my batteries. I can't imagine needing to idle considering I will be more than doubling my battery capacity and will be adding solar. That feature would be a rarely used if ever backup.

[gerrym51]

Marko- i never do some links succesfully from facebook so i'll ask you to do it.

Jim Hammill has a new post at Roadterkkers group.

it's a picture with a caption- 'I wonder what this warp core device is"

check it an link it for us please.

thanks

[markopolo]

Thanks Gerry! here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9590065&type=1

What ever it is it looks like it'll change everything. My guess is that it is some sort of fuel cell. Hydrogen maybe?

[booster]

It looks to have 3 positive binding posts, 1 negative. One of the positive on the small box marked "battery +" ? Short conduit has control sized wiring, or very low charge rate wiring. Would have to guess the big box is the power generator, small the controller or battery converter. Would wire from + on big box to + on small box and from other + on small box to the battery. Neg on big box to battery neg. Some sort of fuel cell would be my first guess also. The Sealtite conduit is unusual for Roadtrek in low voltage wiring, though, so it may have an AC input through the longer conduit. I am not up on hydrogen stuff, but maybe they are generating hydrogen when on shore power, to use later in a fuel cell, with the AC shore power. The wiring in the small conduit is about the right size for 110 volt power.

The fact that it has handles on it (presume 4 of them) may be just because it is a prototype, but it could mean it needs to be removed to be filled or for some other reason. 4 handles would also infer that it is pretty heavy.

No matter what it is, it has gotten Roadtrek the attention they wanted by putting up the teaser.

I did enjoy the one comment about how the skeptics would say it won't work

Did a quick look around--these guys have some neat stuff

http://www.tropical.gr/solutions/tra...solutions.html

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Davydd

If the 1500 watts of solar was not serious, I am wondering if a fuel cell solution is in the works and the solar business was a diversion.

Davydd may have been right last week when he mentioned a possible fuel cell solution.

[gerrym51]

Booster-the strangest thing is that I never read anywhere that the roadtrek stuff would not work. What I did read in many places including posts by me is doubts about how long the batteries could keep the air conditioner running. I always thought it would work-just how long batteries would last.

I still think the jury is out on that question.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Booster-the strangest thing is that I never read anywhere that the roadtrek stuff would not work. What I did read in many places including posts by me is doubts about how long the batteries could keep the air conditioner running. I always thought it would work-just how long batteries would last.

I still think the jury is out on that question.

I agree, and that is how I see it also, but I think Roadrek and some of their ardent supporters kind of morphed the whole thing into having a group of "naysayers" that say the things Roadtrek does won't work. There certainly have been comments about any new stuff working better than the etek claims worked out, but I do think those were justified, and Roadtrek has backed off on the claims, quietly. I think Roadtrek will suffer some skepticism for quite a while due to the etrek claims, but all it will take is one good success with an innovation and they earn a lot of credibility back. Every new technology will have skeptics and supporters, whether either is justified. It is just the way the world works. Campskunk has mentioned that he has been harassed and chased around the Internet because of his defense of Roadtrek, particularly the etrek, and I think that kind of behavior is totally out of line.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I agree, and that is how I see it also, but I think Roadrek and some of their ardent supporters kind of morphed the whole thing into having a group of "naysayers" that say the things Roadtrek does won't work. There certainly have been comments about any new stuff working better than the etek claims worked out, but I do think those were justified, and Roadtrek has backed off on the claims, quietly. I think Roadtrek will suffer some skepticism for quite a while due to the etrek claims, but all it will take is one good success with an innovation and they earn a lot of credibility back. Every new technology will have skeptics and supporters, whether either is justified. It is just the way the world works. Campskunk has mentioned that he has been harassed and chased around the Internet because of his defense of Roadtrek, particularly the etrek, and I think that kind of behavior is totally out of line.

Campskunk seems to take any questioning of anything as a personal Roadtrek swipe.I think roadtreks are the best b's around-but i also think sprinters have too few dealers and modern emissions controls have degraded advantages of diesels. Campskunk takes that as a criticism of Roadtrek.

[markopolo]

Campskunk is a huge fan of Roadtrek and he probably knows more about all the models combined than anyone else with the exception of some longtime Roadtrek employees. He seems like the type of guy that would stop and help you out if he happened across you in a van related difficulty on the road even if it wasn't a Roadtrek.

Let's get this thread back on topic though.

A fuel cell does make sense. The problem with massive battery banks is the time it takes to properly recharge them and a fuel cell would reduce the size of the battery bank.

I really don't know much about the technology though. I'm trying understand it and learning more will be fun.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Campskunk is a huge fan of Roadtrek and he probably knows more about all the models combined than anyone else with the exception of some longtime Roadtrek employees. He seems like the type of guy that would stop and help you out if he happened across you in a van related difficulty on the road even if it wasn't a Roadtrek.

Let's get this thread back on topic though.

A fuel cell does make sense. The problem with massive battery banks is the time it takes to properly recharge them and a fuel cell would reduce the size of the battery bank.

I really don't know much about the technology though. I'm trying understand it and learning more will be fun.

In just a quick read of the company in the link, it appeared that it would be theoretically possible to create and store hydrogen by electrolyzing water. It could be done off shore power, solar, or the alternator when driving, I would think. I would think it would take less space and weight then batteries, but I don't know that. They also mentioned fuel cells that would run off propane or natural gas, which might also be an option in a vehicle.

On edit--found propane powered fuel cells that go straight to 12 volts. Claim was .25# or propane for 1kw/hr of power, or about 80AH at 12v. Not too bad.

Very interesting stuff.

[gerrym51]

Jim Hammill has added some more responses on this post. seems to indicate even thicker wiring (or is it more) wiring than E-trek.

[markopolo]

The term "Fuel Cell" blankets so many underlying technologies. I came across a fuel cell that uses diesel.

The photo that Jim posted might only be representative of the technology they'll use - not the actual device. The warehouse background and work table in the photo adds to the mystery. Only the two boxes look high tech.

A Proton exchange membrane fuel cell using water for the "fuel" looks to be a good fit for RV use.

http://outreach.phas.ubc.ca/phys420/p42 ... /title.htm

............................... a PEM fuel cell can work either way. It can 'fuel up' by splitting water into H2 & O2, with an external voltage source, or it can produce a voltage when fuel is supplied to it.

[markopolo]

Forgetting fuel cells for the moment - Kimberly Kruiser from Australia has some interesting info re: quiet air conditioning and their hybrid energy system:

http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/lightwe ... rgy-system

The Hybrid Energy Components are:

Batteries: 480 Ahr Lithium
Inverter: 3kW continuous, 5kW surge
Solar Capacity: 500W inKimberley Eco-suite, 720W in Kimberley Kruiser

Split system air conditioner

http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/super-q ... ing-system