2018 RT Simplicity inverter issue/DOA

[booster]

Originally Posted by PhilmontP

A local rv repair shop made the suggestion to me and it worked. He suggested that I put the battery on a low charge. He said when the battery is completely drained the inverter is dead even plugged in shore power. I has it on a low trickle overnight and everything is back to normal. Being plugged in shore power the battery is still being charged. The breaker is reset. Life is good.
Thanks to all who shared suggestions.

It is odd that you had no 110v to the coach when on shore power as that would usually not happen AFAIK as the shore power should go straight through the transfer switch even with and dead battery. That is how the ones we have had worked.


It is a bummer that you couldn't get shore power 110v to the coach with a dead battery as that could totally ruin a trip, where otherwise it would make it just inconvenient.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by PreciousRoy

I realize OP's van is Hymer Roadtrek and mine is post-bankruptcy (Thor?) Roadtrek, but other than updated components there weren't too many changes made (floor plans, basic wiring, etc. are all the same).

I've followed the wiring diagrams from the pre-bankruptcy Hymer Roadtreks and my van is almost exactly the same with only slight differences that are mostly Firefly-driven.

Thor has nothing to do with Roadtrek. Roadtrek was put into bankruptcy when they bought Hymer. The new Roadtrek is a different company that bought parts of what was left of Roadtrek including its intellectual property. They are essentially producing updated versions of the old company's products and newer variations.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Thor has nothing to do with Roadtrek. Roadtrek was put into bankruptcy when they bought Hymer. The new Roadtrek is a different company that bought parts of what was left of Roadtrek including its intellectual property. They are essentially producing updated versions of the old company's products and newer variations.

IIRC, Roadtrek was bought by and inverstment group about 2011 or so, but they didn't get it turned around.


Then in about 2014 Hymer acquired Roadtrek from the investment group, so Roadtrek never bought anybody.


Roadtrek was a primary cause of Hymer destroyed the US based Hymer they had created and let the incompetent Roadtrek management run.


Thor bought the US operations in about 2019. Then folded the whole US business. Rapido bought the remains out of bankruptcy.


Of course this changes nothing for those of us that have the old Roadtrek vans that are now orphans, except for those that got left over vans that Rapido got from the bankruptcy.


Mostly all older Roadtrek owners are on their own by now.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by booster

Roadtrek was a primary cause of Hymer destroyed the US based Hymer they had created and let the incompetent Roadtrek management run.

Thor bought the US operations in about 2019. Then folded the whole US business. Rapido bought the remains out of bankruptcy.

I disagree with these two parts. Hymer made their own problems by lack of oversight. Hymer created a huge new second factory and proceeded to make competition for the Roadtrek models. They did this by borrowing lots of money. From day one, we all wondered how Hymer was such a successful German company... making decisions like that.

Hymer finally realized that they were idiots and went in search of a buyer. Thor showed up... looked at the books of EGHNA and realized that there were big problems. Thor declared that they only wanted Hymer Europe. Fine said Hymer, who took off for Delaware to create a blind LLC called Corner Flag, and then sold Roadtrek to them after transferring all the debt of EGHNA into it...

As soon as that legal paperwork was finished, a couple guys in suits showed up, told the employees in the factories to down tools and leave permanently, AND the management offices, and they chained the doors shut on all properties. Then the legal fun began.

So it was Hymer who has the honor of having screwed all the dealers, suppliers, employees, and owners of their products - while they laughed all the way to the bank with their proceeds from Thor (millions I would guess). Thor can only be blamed for getting it all started. But they will take no calls from those with Hymer branded vans even though they now own the name in the US and copied many of the models on their current products.

Rapido came in and bought the remains of Roadtrek only... and those, like me, who had purchased RT vans in the previous 12 months were given a limited warranty. It covered all the minimal work that mine needed. Those with the older Promaster models have access to parts as most of them haven't changed. The old Chevy and Dodge models are more on their own. There is a Canadian Company called Mobilife in Kitchener that purchased the leftover parts and and moulds at the auction. So the only total orphans are badged Hymer or Carado rather than Roadtrek.

BTW... the back story on all this was researched by a number of Roadtrek owners some of whom also happened to be lawyers. They dredged up the links and shared. The net can be very helpful.

[booster]

Thanks Mumkin, interesting,


Can't agrue about any of it from a legal standpoint as not a lawyer, but at the time of the acquisition and after I remember a lot chatter about the expansion being based on Roadtrek executives like Jim Hammill severely underestimating the cost to produce the vans the expansion would generate and also severely overestimated the anticipated sales volumes. That in itself is a recipe for disaster at any company, but then they rushed the designs and totally ignored quality, costing them a whole lot of money in warranty claims. The alleged fudging and falsifying of sales numbers and shipments certainly wounldn't have helped if it actually happened. I can't say how involved the Hymer powers were in any of this, but Hammill often implied he was in charge of USA products completely, but he often exaggerated.


As you said, Thor knew very well what they were going to do with the USA division when they bought the Euro side. I think that Hymer and Thor worked to get the US operations spun off to make the sale happen IIRC. Once on their own there was no chance of survival.


I could be wrong on some of this as it was quite a while ago, but there were not any real good guys in all this except Rapido, IMO.

[mumkin]

I've always wondered whether it was Hymer or Thor that came up with the Delaware card trick... or mostly likely the lawyers of both of them. All legal, of course, merely underhanded and sleazy. Thor had no interest in EGHNA once they saw the fudged books. It was said that some of the management were removed by police on bankruptcy day. Dear JH was vacationing out of the country, but was certainly in legal jeopardy, though as far as we were able to follow, the usual nothing happened. He hasn't appeared since. The courts ordered a Forensic Audit... mainly as related to employee benefits owed and I expect to see if internal statements matched tax returns... and we know that the management diddled the sales numbers. (employees came on FB with many interesting tales... unverified, of course) But we were surprised only that no legal charges seem to have been made as happens so often with white collar crime. A genuine Soap Opera that could work as a TV series.

What most surprised me was how JH bamboozled Hymer to let him carry on with what appears to be no supervision while he went hog-wild with the Hymer branch of the business (which is then what bankrupted Roadtrek). Rapido has certainly been more hands on. They started with an American CEO, but when he left, the replacement is a Frenchman.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by mumkin

........................

What most surprised me was how JH bamboozled Hymer to let him carry on with what appears to be no supervision while he went hog-wild with the Hymer branch of the business (which is then what bankrupted Roadtrek). Rapido has certainly been more hands on. They started with an American CEO, but when he left, the replacement is a Frenchman.

With Mike Reuer, Westfalia CEO, appointment I hoped for repeating the Westy NA history for reasonably priced young family campervan, at $170K it didn’t happen.

“Mike Reuer, the general director for Rapido’s Westfalia brand and overseer of Roadtrek’s revival, expanded upon the Rousseaus’ vision for Roadtrek during an interview with RV PRO prior to Open House.
Reuer orchestrated Westfalia’s rebound from bankruptcy earlier in this decade and plans to implement some of the same principles in the Roadtrek rebirth.”
https://rv-pro.com/features/how-rapi...irth-roadtrek/

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

With Mike Reuer, Westfalia CEO, appointment I hoped for repeating the Westy NA history for reasonably priced young family campervan, at $170K it didn’t happen.

“Mike Reuer, the general director for Rapido’s Westfalia brand and overseer of Roadtrek’s revival, expanded upon the Rousseaus’ vision for Roadtrek during an interview with RV PRO prior to Open House.
Reuer orchestrated Westfalia’s rebound from bankruptcy earlier in this decade and plans to implement some of the same principles in the Roadtrek rebirth.”
https://rv-pro.com/features/how-rapi...irth-roadtrek/

I don't get that pricing deal either, as it can't be that much less expensive to build higher quality in Europe than here in many cases, but be cheaper to buy.


With the U.S. producers of low quality it may be understandable because they must spend a ton on rework and warranty claims, but Rapido should be able to replicate what they do in Europe, I would think. Perhaps their current output is so low and demand high, that they can get away with much larger margins than other manufacturers.


Of course, nearly all the manufacturers have been very reluctant to come off of the extreme gouging that came with pandemic sales boom, so that may be a factor also.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

I don't get that pricing deal either, as it can't be that much less expensive to build higher quality in Europe than here in many cases, but be cheaper to buy.


With the U.S. producers of low quality it may be understandable because they must spend a ton on rework and warranty claims, but Rapido should be able to replicate what they do in Europe, I would think. Perhaps their current output is so low and demand high, that they can get away with much larger margins than other manufacturers.


Of course, nearly all the manufacturers have been very reluctant to come off of the extreme gouging that came with pandemic sales boom, so that may be a factor also.

I think gouging is a predominant factor. I recently view new Revel by Winnebago for $250K. Product manager was proud to announce their major innovation for insulation – Thinsulate. I used Thinsulate in my van in 2013 and the Thinsulate became the primary insulation method among DIY community.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I think gouging is a predominant factor. I recently view new Revel by Winnebago for $250K. Product manager was proud to announce their major innovation for insulation – Thinsulate. I used Thinsulate in my van in 2013 and the Thinsulate became the primary insulation method among DIY community.

And you can bet that W won't put the Thinsulate in as carefully as you did.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

And you can bet that W won't put the Thinsulate in as carefully as you did.

“W” added a reflective layer on the inside side of the Thinsulate and covered it with van’s interior opaque inner liner. Winnebago physics is that IR/inside heat goes through the inner liner which is opaque to IR then reflects of the reflective foil and goes back through the inner liner back to the van’s space, so IR goes through a not transparent wall twice, but everything is possible in a $250K van with a 7kW alternator.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by booster

I don't get that pricing deal either, as it can't be that much less expensive to build higher quality in Europe than here in many cases, but be cheaper to buy.

Of course, nearly all the manufacturers have been very reluctant to come off of the extreme gouging that came with pandemic sales boom, so that may be a factor also.

I'd say that it is probably unrealistic to expect them to lower to closer to European prices with the Westie when it is just basically a Roadtrek with a tweaked interior.

Their goal is not to undercut Roadtrek.

The huge jump in MSRP during Covid has finally dropped on the Roadtrek website - about $20K per unit, and we are seeing rebates, plus the joys of negotiation are back at many dealers. RV sales are pretty sluggish and there are tons of used options out there.

But Pleasureway has all units over $200K MSRP. (and I see that they are putting a 5 year warranty on their lithium system)

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by mumkin

....................plus the joys of negotiation are back at many dealers. RV sales are pretty sluggish and there are tons of used options out there.
................................

"joys of negotiation", love your sense of humor.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

"joys of negotiation", love your sense of humor.

...but but... I love negotiating. lol

I got lots of practice teaching in the Middle East universities for 10+ years before I retired in 2001. You even negotiate in the pharmacies over there. I negotiated for months on a new car in Abu Dhabi - playing the Honda and Nissan dealers against each other. I've done the same with every RV I bought, but the first one. The key is knowing what you are buying... and its worth.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by mumkin

...but but... I love negotiating. lol

I got lots of practice teaching in the Middle East universities for 10+ years before I retired in 2001. You even negotiate in the pharmacies over there. I negotiated for months on a new car in Abu Dhabi - playing the Honda and Nissan dealers against each other. I've done the same with every RV I bought, but the first one. The key is knowing what you are buying... and its worth.

We all value our time differently. I do my homework before walking to the dealer, if they can’t match my target I walk away, no “talking to manager” gimmicks. I bought my Sprinter via emailing RFQs to multiple dealers within driving range, picked the best option and drove to the dealer for picking it up.

I recall when Saturn introduced a novel in US dealerships without price bickering. My recent purchase of Honda was from the dealer advertising fixed prices, no price arguing, recently more local dealers use this model of transaction. I think most folks in US and likely all in Europe dislike price wrangling.

My first two campervans were purchase from VW dealerships one via European delivery, prices were fixed. Transaction were primely picking up options and filling up the paper work.

[mumkin]

My last two cars since 2008 were both from a no bicker dealer... and my long time RV dealer has gone to no bicker. It may be my fault... lol

All my rigs were special orders... to get the options that I wanted and none that I didn't. That is where you can negotiate.

I've been retired for over 20 years... time, I have plenty of...