2012 GWV Legend EX, All four house batteries dead!

[CleanLivin]

OR, is it just one way out to the lights - batteries MUST be charged to get the current to the lights, etc .

[CleanLivin]

He just drove from San Antonio TX to SC.
No charge to batteries at all!

[booster]

Originally Posted by CleanLivin

He just drove from San Antonio TX to SC.
No charge to batteries at all!

If the engine charging does connect to the batteries, then the lights should come on, but they won't if just the charger is plugged in. If the lights come on, then there should be adequate voltage for the charger to initiate. Of course if the batteries are really shot, they may not even be good enough to hold voltage with charger on, and in that case the charger would probably go back off again.

[CleanLivin]

As said earlier, NO 12 volt service - no lights, no control panels lite up and working for generator, solar panels, etc.

Only 110 circuits working.

He has driven from Louisiana to SC today, so he is quitting for now, we will resume in the morning.

If anyone here has a Legend EX, 2012 +/-, I am wondering if other than the Master Power switch, which is turn on, is there anything else that needs to be turned on for the 12 volt circuit/charger? He has checked the breakers and all are in order. Also the fuse at the inverter is good and the power switch there is turned to on.

I would think that even if batteries are dead (which these are) that the unit would pass 110 down to 12v and run the lights, etc. Am I wrong?

[booster]

Originally Posted by CleanLivin

As said earlier, NO 12 volt service - no lights, no control panels lite up and working for generator, solar panels, etc.

Only 110 circuits working.

He has driven from Louisiana to SC today, so he is quitting for now, we will resume in the morning.

If anyone here has a Legend EX, 2012 +/-, I am wondering if other than the Master Power switch, which is turn on, is there anything else that needs to be turned on for the 12 volt circuit/charger? He has checked the breakers and all are in order. Also the fuse at the inverter is good and the power switch there is turned to on.

I would think that even if batteries are dead (which these are) that the unit would pass 110 down to 12v and run the lights, etc. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are not correct on that. Without a battery voltage reference, and for some chargers even a quick proof charge acceptance, the charge will not generate any 12v power. It is likely that the 110v power is transferred to the coach before the inverter as you have a generator and would need a transfer switch to do that. Without any 12v power the main power switch probably won't work, either, because most need 12v power to actuate.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

Very possible the batteries are too low to initiate the battery charger. Most need to see about 9v of battery power or they won't come on. If it is possible on that van to get the engine to charge the batteries, which is likely, then running the engine while plugging in will likely get the charger to start.

I don't get the virtue of these "smart" chargers that won't charge a seriously depleted battery. I finally ditched mine and got a Noco battery charger that initially won't charge when it sees serious depletion but permits me to override that.

[avanti]

But, if the engine is running, the isolation relay should close, which would add the chassis battery to the circuit, so everything should come to life. Something doesn't add up.

I have a 2014 Legend, but I have a bespoke electrical system that was built to my specifications, so it is not very relevant.

[BBQ]

.

Your battery must be shorted.



.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

Without any 12v power the main power switch probably won't work, either, because most need 12v power to actuate.

I am pretty sure they were using one of those mechanical rotary marine battery switches (mounted down by the sliding door step IIRC). Shouldn't need power to operate.

OH. I just remembered that they had a habit of putting cheap, self-resetting circuit breakers at various points to protect the long wire runs. Mine had two of them down underneath the vehicle--one in the drivers-side rear, and the other one underneath the chassis battery box. They were exposed to weather and did not fare well. I replaced them with higher quality weatherproof breakers. I bet the one in the back is bad.

They look like this:

[CleanLivin]

Avanti,
We will check this morning, (just use a continuity tester?) and let you know what we find.

[CleanLivin]

I just learned from my friend, the seller, the following:
He added a 35Amp outlet to the garage.
Had the van plugged into the outlet in the garage to the Van input. He then ran power from a 110 v outlet INSIDE the van to the engines battery with a trickle charger.

After several months in storage, he found the engine battery in perfect condition BUT all four of the house batteries are dead and all 12v circuits/panels, etc are dead.

Now, all 110 outlets are working fine - just house batteries are totally drained but the motor battery is perfect an microwave, etc all working.

Just the 12 volt circuits are dead, no power to start the generator, etc.

Now, to me this says that the two breakers outside under the van must be in tack, right?

Next, inverter is the SamLex 2000 SSW -2000-12v.
It is suppose to have LED's indicating it's operating status.
Nothing is lit on the Samlex. He is going to double check this again this morning after the rain lets up.

Please, only answer if you know and have a GWV or SamLex, or have worked on them.

1. Would there be separate wiring to the 110 outlets that completely bypass the Samlex, and that is why the 110v outlets are working.

Or is it that the incoming 110v go directly to the Samlex and it is passing the 110 v current through to the outlets but the charger/inverter of the Samlex is shot? (remember, the external fuse on the Samlex is fine BUT the manual says there is also an internal fuse inside the unit.)

Suggestions?
Jack

[avanti]

Originally Posted by CleanLivin

Avanti,
We will check this morning, (just use a continuity tester?)

Probably better to check voltage on both sides while the system is nominally "on". A continuity test might show OK in a static test but open under load.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by CleanLivin

Now, all 110 outlets are working fine - just house batteries are totally drained but the motor battery is perfect an microwave, etc all working.

Just the 12 volt circuits are dead, no power to start the generator, etc.

Now, to me this says that the two breakers outside under the van must be in tack, right?

No. Those are 12VDC breakers. A failure here could well kill all 12V in the vehicle.

Next, inverter is the SamLex 2000 SSW -2000-12v.
It is suppose to have LED's indicating it's operating status.
Nothing is lit on the Samlex. He is going to double check this again this morning after the rain lets up.

Wait a sec...
If I am looking at the right thing, that Samlex unit is an INVERTER, not an inverter/charger. Its purpose is to make 120VAC from 12VDC. It consumes 12V power. So it makes perfect sense that it is not working, given that you have no 12V.

There must be a separate "converter" somewhere that converts 120VAC to 12VDC and charges the battery. That is what you are probably looking for. Most likely it is either (a) turned off; (b) broken; (c) not getting 120VAC power for some reason; or (d) working but not getting its power to the rest of the van (e.g., due to the aforementioned breaker).

I have a combined inverter/charger, so again, my van is not a perfect model for yours. But IIRC, Great West stuffed the converter behind the control panel (in the front driver's side somewhere), far to the back. Didn't look like it was overly easy to access--you surely would have to remove the control panel.

Please, only answer if you know and have a GWV or SamLex, or have worked on them.

1. Would there be separate wiring to the 110 outlets that completely bypass the Samlex, and that is why the 110v outlets are working.

There are probably separate outlets fed by the Samlex, but, again, that is probably irrelevant.

Or is it that the incoming 110v go directly to the Samlex and it is passing the 110 v current through to the outlets but the charger/inverter of the Samlex is shot? (remember, the external fuse on the Samlex is fine BUT the manual says there is also an internal fuse inside the unit.)

Suggestions?

As I said, 120VAC comes FROM the Samlex, rather than going TO it (unless I am confused).

If I were you, I would get a voltmeter and systematically follow the current. Start by checking the breakers that I mentioned. If there is no power on the input to it, then unfortunately, the next place to look is at the converter, which may be a bit of a project. When you get to it, check that (a) it is getting 120VAC in, and (b) it is producing 12VDC out. (N.B., however, that as Booster said, some converters require a good battery to produce power (not all do, though--only the "smart" ones). I would test it by bypassing the isolation relay and using the coach battery for the test.

Speaking of the coach, as I said before, if your 12VDC systems aren't working with the engine running, that rules out the converter as the problem (unless, of course, there are multiple faults), and points strongly to something like the breaker underneath.

Hope this helps.

[CleanLivin]

THANK YOU!

That is exactly what I needed to hear/learn!
Appreciate you help and will let you know how all turns out.
The van will not be at my place until noon Wednesday so I'm doing all of this from a distance.

Jack

[booster]

Samlex also makes inverter/chargers, so it could be either a standalone or combo unit. It would pay to get a look at the model number to be certain of what it is. Does it have a remote on it? That might also give a clue.

I would agree with Avanti that the 12v breakers would be suspect whenever you have something like this, especially if it won't give 12v with the engine running.

[CleanLivin]

It is the model I listed above:
SamLex 2000 SSW -2000-12v.
and has the remote panel with it installed in the GWV.

Reading the "on line" manual right now to see if there is not a charger in it - it is only an INVERTER.

Now I just learned there is a SamLex Solar 30 Amp Solar Charge Controller, SCC-30AB in the van.

I suspect it is only acting as a charger from the solar panel and now from the 110v incoming line.

[CleanLivin]

Update:
I have just checked with SanLex and their Solar Controller/Charger only provides power from the solar panel to the batteries. It does NOT deal with incoming 110v shore power.

The folks at SanLex said they have seen situation where all of the charging to the batteries is done by the solar panel but they do not know how GWV did it.

To me, that seems crazy that there would not be another charger for the batteries that can charge from the engine alternator or from 110v shore power.


We have found two black boxes at the rear inside under the bed: Progressive Dynamics 5100 Series Automatic Transfer Relays.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by CleanLivin

Update:
I have just checked with SanLex and their Solar Controller/Charger only provides power from the solar panel to the batteries. It does NOT deal with incoming 110v shore power.

The folks at SanLex said they have seen situation where all of the charging to the batteries is done by the solar panel but they do not know how GWV did it.

To me, that seems crazy that there would not be another charger for the batteries that can charge from the engine alternator or from 110v shore power.


We have found two black boxes at the rear inside under the bed: Progressive Dynamics 5100 Series Automatic Transfer Relays.

There is one charger from US which can take alternator and PV sources – Kisae, and a couple from Australia. I am not aware off any charge controller capable of taking 3 sources, I wish there would be. DMT-1250 - Kisae Technology

[booster]

Two transfer relays makes sense, that is done a lot. One switches between shore power and generator and the second between inverter and whatever the first transfer switch has chosen.

It would be pretty weird to not have a shore power/generator powered 110v to 12v charger. I don't think they could do it through the solar charger.

Sometimes the owners manual will show what the component brands and models are. Does your friend have the original manual?

[CleanLivin]

Just found this - there is a Progressive Dynamics Power Control Center that must mate to the PDynamics relays.

No model number on it - removing the panel to see if we find a Converter behind the panel.

Got inside and found there is a:
Progressive Dynamics Intel-Power 9200S unit!
It is a converter/charger from what I can tell.

Also, if there is another GWV owner that knows what the black "switch" in the top left corner of the photo below does, I'd like to know.