So many extras and the quality seems very good.
But the price went up substantially, 120K!
Will still make sense to get the Scope for much less and put on with all the little quality issues?
A question only you can answer. One would hope something twice as expensive will be better. If your "Pocket" can swing it, you may be happier in the end.
I picked a similar short campervan from Westfalia for comparison, it costs a little less including VAT at 92K USD. Difficult to explain why prices in US are 50-60% higher than in EU, perhaps black tanks or Li mega oomphies or US labor cost at $250K/Y.
Nothing is selling much right now. I bet is going to be discounted more.
Actually we have a daily supply of new buyers coming onto the Roadtrek facebook page I am on. Leisure Travel still has a long waiting list for its buyers. So rigs are selling... just not at the ridiculous pace of the "plague years." I'm hoping to see the MSRPs to slowly return to normal, but it is more likely it will show up in growing discounts.
I picked a similar short campervan from Westfalia for comparison, it costs a little less including VAT at 92K USD. Difficult to explain why prices in US are 50-60% higher than in EU, perhaps black tanks or Li mega oomphies or US labor cost at $250K/Y.
I assume that you saw that Westfalia was re-introduced at the big expo for the manufacturers last month. They had a prototype that will be built by Rapido at the Roadtrek factory. I think this was the model, but it is on a longer Promaster, not the 1500... giving it a huge garage (for a class B). There is a video from Sunshine State RVs. Sleeps 6 with the pop-top. Cassette toilet.
Actually we have a daily supply of new buyers coming onto the Roadtrek facebook page I am on. Leisure Travel still has a long waiting list for its buyers. So rigs are selling... just not at the ridiculous pace of the "plague years." I'm hoping to see the MSRPs to slowly return to normal, but it is more likely it will show up in growing discounts.
The dealer close to were I live in Thousand Oaks has a huge inventory, pretty much everything is discounted from the MSRP. There is no room for more vans in their parking lot.
Used to be empty not long ago.
I see prices from Used RV also being discounted because they are not selling as quick.
I will give the new pocket 36B a few weeks and see if it will be discounted some more, the 36A it's going from 95K to 105K right now.
A question only you can answer. One would hope something twice as expensive will be better. If your "Pocket" can swing it, you may be happier in the end.
Yeah, you can do a lot of upgrades to the Scope and still have a lot of money left for camping. Seems like the Scope has more Cabinets than the pocket, specially in the bathroom, but that may because the gas and the water are on top instead than below the coach, which is really neat actually. It has lots of clearance if you need to do some work on it or going on some uneven terrain.
I assume that you saw that Westfalia was re-introduced at the big expo for the manufacturers last month. They had a prototype that will be built by Rapido at the Roadtrek factory. I think this was the model, but it is on a longer Promaster, not the 1500... giving it a huge garage (for a class B). There is a video from Sunshine State RVs. Sleeps 6 with the pop-top. Cassette toilet.
I was aware of Westfalia coming to US but didn’t monitor models’ intros. Prices will likely follow ours, why not, prices direct relation to costs is dream world fantasy.
The dealer close to were I live in Thousand Oaks has a huge inventory, pretty much everything is discounted from the MSRP. There is no room for more vans in their parking lot.
Used to be empty not long ago.
I see prices from Used RV also being discounted because they are not selling as quick.
I will give the new pocket 36B a few weeks and see if it will be discounted some more, the 36A it's going from 95K to 105K right now.
In other words, things are going back to normal as they have been for the last 20 years since I bought my first rig. lol Prior to covid all RVs always sold at a discount from MSRP. Generally from 15-30% depending on the brands. The higher the quality, the lower the discount.
As to used prices, many individual sellers don't keep good track of the market and don't realize that crazy covid times prices are finished, so they are having to come down to a normal used market price. If the 36A is being discounted at the standard Winnie 25-30% as you mentioned, I would expect to see about the same for the 36B. Since this is their new floor plan, don't expect to see major drops for a long time.
Yeah, you can do a lot of upgrades to the Scope and still have a lot of money left for camping. Seems like the Scope has more Cabinets than the pocket, specially in the bathroom, but that may because the gas and the water are on top instead than below the coach, which is really neat actually. It has lots of clearance if you need to do some work on it or going on some uneven terrain.
Just had a look at the 36B floor plan and it is almost identical to the one in the Rize/Scope. I am sure the handiwork is somewhere superior to justify the price. We looked at the Solis before and my wife objected to the garage-looking floor (I know... right), even though I told her we could cover it up with carpet runners. As for the cabinets in the Rize, that space really came in handy when we went on a 3 wk vacation with 3 peeps.
In the end, looking at the price diff, it's a no-brainer for me. It just depends how much you are willing and able to spend vs willing and able to fix.
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2022 Thor Rize 18M (sold) now a 22 Honda Odyssey
Just had a look at the 36B floor plan and it is almost identical to the one in the Rize/Scope. I am sure the handiwork is somewhere superior to justify the price. We looked at the Solis before and my wife objected to the garage-looking floor (I know... right), even though I told her we could cover it up with carpet runners. As for the cabinets in the Rize, that space really came in handy when we went on a 3 wk vacation with 3 peeps.
In the end, looking at the price diff, it's a no-brainer for me. It just depends how much you are willing and able to spend vs willing and able to fix.
To me, they are both very good looking vans.
The Rize has a bit more cabinet space. I like also the cabinets in the Bathroom.
I am not sure about the toilet on the Pocket, kind of like the cassette with wheels that you can roil to the toilet. Is nice that you can remove it on the pocket to make the shower more spacious though.
I like the 3 point seat belt on the Pocket and the several ways you can adjust the sofa and the table.
I like the high clearance on the the pocket, not much under the carriage to worry about.
Probably a better quality overall, seems like the cushions are more hefty.
Will all that justify about 40K difference in price?
If they would price the pocket 36B like the 36A, about 95K, it will then make it more attractive to consider.
In other words, things are going back to normal as they have been for the last 20 years since I bought my first rig. lol Prior to covid all RVs always sold at a discount from MSRP. Generally from 15-30% depending on the brands. The higher the quality, the lower the discount.
As to used prices, many individual sellers don't keep good track of the market and don't realize that crazy covid times prices are finished, so they are having to come down to a normal used market price. If the 36A is being discounted at the standard Winnie 25-30% as you mentioned, I would expect to see about the same for the 36B. Since this is their new floor plan, don't expect to see major drops for a long time.
With the MSRP of 149K, the dealer was asking 120K for the 36B, which is about a 20% discount, may be if push come to shove I could may be get a 25 or 30% discount, which will will put it in the vicinity of 112K to 105K approximately. Plus tax and license.
Still about 20K above a new Scope 18M.
With the MSRP of 149K, the dealer was asking 120K for the 36B, which is about a 20% discount, may be if push come to shove I could may be get a 25 or 30% discount, which will will put it in the vicinity of 112K to 105K approximately. Plus tax and license.
Still about 20K above a new Scope 18M.
Since it is a new option, negotiation could be limited. Dealers don't yet know its demand.
It is easy to see why the 36B is more. Adding a bathroom involves significant plumbing and a waterproof room that provides shower space. Setting up a cassette toilet is much more labor intensive that slipping a portipotty in a cabinet.
To compare the Thor version, you really need them parked next to each other to scope it out to see if the 20K is justified or not for you.
Alarm beeping is caused by a sensor in the awning. There's a few AAA batteries in there that will last a few years, but start beeping incessantly at some point.
It's a wind sensor that tells the awning to self retract.
Just to close this up, I ended up selling the Rize, and downsized to a Honda Odyssey instead.
I was looking for something more suitable as a daily/weekly driver, and figured that perhaps once I retire I might get back into a class B, with more opportunities to actually use it.
Main drawbacks of the smaller vehicle - too low to stand up in it, can't really hang out inside, no bathroom, no roof AC/vents.
I took out most of the seats and put in a rear kitchen with filtered water and sink, a refrigerator (Dometic NRX 80T), a sliding bed platform, and lots of storage. It is cramped, but still fits 3 of us to sleep inside.
On the plus side, it doesn't look like a camper, driving it is rather relaxing, almost noise-less. better power and mileage, no worries about gumming up generators, and prolly a lot more I am forgetting.
The Thor has a lot of luxury and stuff, some of it like the genny and microwave and hot water we didn't use. Building something exactly towards what you need/want simplifies the setup a lot and makes it more reliable and easy to fix too. Especially for those who are more "Camp-er" than full time Van-er.
I shared my conversion in the OdyClub forum, but there is no interest in Mini-Van conversions. There isn't really a dedicated forum out there, so I guess not many consider this. Plenty of Youtubes and pre-fabricated setups for converting Mini-Vans though.
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2022 Thor Rize 18M (sold) now a 22 Honda Odyssey
I just did a quick search but didn't look at the results in detail, butt there seems to be plenty of even commercial interest in Odyssey conversions of different methods.
GTRV does the Toyota Sienna, but not the Odyssey...
I converted a new Sienna back in 2008, but found it too small for much use... even just for me. I can't imagine how you manage to sleep 3 in a minivan. lol A couple years later I upsized to an LTV Libero.
Now that I am no longer traveling at all, I grabbed the last of the Promaster City cargo vans and did a super basic conversion for driveway camping in friend's and relative's driveways. I did have a small fan put in the roof and an electric connection to plug in for some 110 power. My "battery power" to run my cooler, fans and such is a smallish jackery and a little larger ecoflow. A camping cot and a portipotty and that covers it.
The advantage of the City over the Sienna (or Odyssey) is that I can stand up... sort of. More interior height and it still fits in a garage.
5 of us slept in our 1985 VW Westfalia, 2 kids on the upper bed, the youngest one on the hammock spread across front seats, and my wife and I on the bottom bed. VW Vanagon was 180” long, Odyssey is 205” long.
I just did a quick search but didn't look at the results in detail, butt there seems to be plenty of even commercial interest in Odyssey conversions of different methods.
Right, that's what I meant by "Plenty of Youtubes and pre-fabricated setups for converting Mini-Vans though". I was referring to a discussion forum for such conversions.
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2022 Thor Rize 18M (sold) now a 22 Honda Odyssey
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