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Old 09-22-2022, 08:38 PM   #41
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I wonder how much work it would take to replace the batteries with Lithium batteries to avoid running the generator.

You mentioned that the generator was surprisingly quiet. I’d love to see some footage of it running if you have any!

As I mentioned, I’m very close to buying a Rize 18A, but it’s a drive to make it down to the dealer to try all things I forgot to do when I was there last!

Im less concerned about the cost of gas to run the generator, but more so want to be more incognito for any impromptu boondocking situation.
You're all over the place... love it. I would recommend spending some time watching Youtube reviews of the various RVs that are appealing to you. Lots to learn. Big investment so you want to be sure to get it right.

Let's not turn this thread into a Lithium discussion since the Rize/Scope doesn't have that. Yes, would be a lot of work/money to replace batteries, and having to turn on the generator or not isn't 100% related to the battery type.

Footage of my generator running would not be super useful as that would depend on the volume setting of your computer/speakers. Let's say the propane i2800 is a bit quieter than some of the previous Onans, allowing you to have a normal conversation inside the vehicle, but still not being stealthy where you could be hiding out somewhere. A bit louder than the higher end Honda generators.

Keep in mind the generator is mostly used for two scenarios: If you need to run the A/C (or microwave, although that is rarely "needed"), or to recharge your batteries. The former only applies if you are in hot climates/seasons, the latter if the solar panels can't keep up with your battery usage. For me, rarely needed except for a summer vacation in the deserts w/o plug in.
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:46 PM   #42
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Thanks for the reply. Our laptops have those DC power blocks on the cables which only have a 3 prong connection.

I don’t believe there is usb to 3 prong adaptor in the short time I spent googling for one.
Right... those bricks are little transformers which take the 110VAC to something around 19 VDC usually. There is no adapter like you were googling, that would be the inverter.

So, to charge your laptop you would go from 12VDC (house batt) to 110VAC (via inverter) down to 19VDC (or something like that, via your power brick). Each conversion loses a bit of efficiency.

Just my opinion: If you are planning to work a lot from the RV, consider upgrading your laptop to a USB-C charge-able model. If you can afford a $90000 RV you may be able to spend $600 or so for a new lappy.
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Old 09-23-2022, 02:46 PM   #43
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I don’t believe there is usb to 3 prong adaptor in the short time I spent googling for one.
I've never seen one either. In my Roadtrek, I just turned on the inverter for long enough to charge my laptop. The solar took care of catching up what charge it used. Again... look at getting a small inverter to plug into the 12v receptacle. Many people use one for their TV so that they can watch in the evening and not have to turn on the big inverter. Not sure how much you need for computer charging...
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Old 09-29-2022, 11:00 PM   #44
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Weekend hiking in Sequoia/Kings Canyon. Nice place to hang out in the evenings too.

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Old 09-30-2022, 02:44 AM   #45
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In looking for better quality, one can also look for an older, well cared for RV. Some (not all) of the older RV's were better built than today's new ones. For example, our older van didn't cost much and was constructed with no particleboard whatsoever. Every piece of the interior is solid oak or oak plywood. The design and build-out is solid, warm, and completely dry. Those were better days in so many ways!
Very good point. At the end of the day they all camp essentially the same and the layouts are all essentially the same variations. I think the money saved on buying a nice clean well cared for unit will buy a lot of fuel to make up for the poor gas mileage, and will more than cover any repairs that one would likely encounter. Also, the older units are cooler looking
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Old 11-30-2022, 03:52 PM   #46
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Default BMPro fail

Over the hot Summer and Fall season, I have left the main switch on and the cabin roof fan on "auto-cool" to keep the temps down while stationary. The solar panel keeps the batteries topped off.

In Winter, the cooling isn't needed, and the shorter days and lower sun angle don't over-charge the batteries, so I turned off the switch.

The other day, I turned it back on to see whats going on with voltages via the BMPro, and noticed it would not boot up anymore. It showed its startup screen for about 5 sec, then turned off again for 20 or so seconds. Tried to reset which did not do anything. Called Thor and they asked for pictures and my address. Hope I'll get a new one for Christmas!

Update: Thor sent out a new BMPRO quickly and I should get it tomorrow. Great service. I sort of figured out what happened - the little battery in the 7" android tablet that serves as the screen went dead. This is because I turned OFF the main switch for a few weeks after leaving it ON for the Summer and Fall. Not sure if leaving it on (and charging/100% full) for an extended time is what killed it. Also not sure what to do exactly to prevent that.

When the coach power is turned off, the tablet is supposed to shut down completely. When turning it on it "boots" in the usual Android fashion, taking about a minute or so. Either there are/were parasitic drains that over-discharged the battery, and/or the tablet failed to shut down completely.

I will try to source a replacement battery if it is indeed dead... perhaps worth having a backup unit just in case.
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:35 AM   #47
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I sort of figured out what happened - the little battery in the 7" android tablet that serves as the screen went dead.
Yes, the lithium batteries in most tablets are a real gotcha. One problem is that many of them can be damaged in freezing weather. In some of them it is possible to just remove the battery (if you can get the case open). However, a lot of them have "smart" batteries and the unit won't boot if the battery isn't present.

I am using a Fire Tablet as the main touch screen for Home Assistant in our new van. I had our upfitter design its flush wall-mounting so as to be easily removable, so I can take it indoors during winterization.
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:18 AM   #48
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Thanks for chiming in! Agreed about finicky lithium batteries, but freezing is less of an issue here... I know the capacity goes down as temps drop, but what affects the lifespan more over here is frequent heat.

The way the BMPro works is that it runs off the internal tablet battery which is always being charged as long as the main switch is on. Once the main switch is turned off the tablet gets some "off" signal which shuts it down completely. I think for some reason this glitched and the tablet (which is set to never sleep) stayed awake and drained the battery.

I am going to monitor the tablet battery voltage with the switch off... to see if the battery has a large self-discharge rate (or some parasitic draw is present). It's possible that the battery is in bad shape as I left the switch on pretty much all year so it stays fully charged at 100% which is not ideal for Li batteries.

Taking the unit out of the camper and storing it inside is a good idea too, although I'd probably forget to put it back in when leaving on a trip.
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:47 PM   #49
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Update: So last night the tablet battery was at 90%. I turned off the main switch (which should shut down the tablet). This morning (16hrs later) I turn on the switch and it is at 8%.

So, either the tablet doesn't shut down anymore, or the battery is completely shot and self-discharges in a a few hours.

Next test: Remove the unit from the camper, shut down the tablet, and see if its battery self-discharges or not.
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:50 PM   #50
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Next test: Remove the unit from the camper, shut down the tablet, and see if its battery self-discharges or not.
Yup confirmed, the tablet battery is no good, it was down to 1% this morning after being disconnected all night. The new unit has no noticeable change in battery percentage.

I guess I can buy another battery and see if that makes it work again. Cheap ones are around $15 although difficult to find one with exactly the same dimensions.

So... assuming that keeping the main switch ON all the time keeps the tablet charged to 100% which isn't good for the battery. Only way to prevent that though would be to disconnect the unit, which is a bit awkward. Or maybe add a switch somewhere.

I wish there was a way to reduce the max charge to 85% like some of the newer phones can do.
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Old 12-06-2022, 12:30 AM   #51
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Subscribing to this thread. I just purchased a 2023 Thor Scope 18M, and will be picking it up this week!
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Old 12-07-2022, 07:20 PM   #52
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Subscribing to this thread. I just purchased a 2023 Thor Scope 18M, and will be picking it up this week!
Thank you for stopping by, always good to have fellow Scope/Rize owners along for the ride! May I ask what you paid? A year ago they were in the 90s, I wonder if inflation has pushed that up or more availability relaxed it a bit?

Def let us know if you have questions or run into any issues.
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Old 12-21-2022, 10:17 PM   #53
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Yup confirmed, the tablet battery is no good, it was down to 1% this morning after being disconnected all night. The new unit has no noticeable change in battery percentage.

I guess I can buy another battery and see if that makes it work again. Cheap ones are around $15 although difficult to find one with exactly the same dimensions.

So... assuming that keeping the main switch ON all the time keeps the tablet charged to 100% which isn't good for the battery. Only way to prevent that though would be to disconnect the unit, which is a bit awkward. Or maybe add a switch somewhere.

I wish there was a way to reduce the max charge to 85% like some of the newer phones can do.
I purchased a new (generic, similar size) 2500mAh battery, soldered it in, and it's working great (as in, holding the charge).
Still not a perfect solution as I plan to mostly keep the main switch on, which means the BMPro tablet will constantly (over)charge and eventually die again. I could just disconnect it, but obviously it's nice to monitor voltages and stuff even when the camper is parked.
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Old 05-10-2023, 06:12 PM   #54
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It's been a while, and maybe time for an update, or not.

While I generally like the layout/floor plan of the Rize, AND if it would get stolen or destroyed, buy one like it again, here are a few things I would keep or change if I had a choice... Keep in mind we usually go places where we don't have hookups.

1) Things I have/want/need

Solar panels
Really help to feed the 12V fridge and keep batteries topped off when not in use. I even run my home internet modem and router off the 190W panel, ha. Bought a folding 100W panel just to play around with and separately charge my power station (1200Wh Li battery) if the camper is parked in the shade.

12V Fridge
Amazing how fast it cools down, and not having to worry about perfect level is liberating. It fits a good amount of food, freezer freezes well, and overall is so much better than my old ice chest that it is a must have...

Propane Stove
Very efficient way to cook, boil, and fry stuff. I even toast my bread this way. Sure, induction sounds wonderful, but then you'd need more battery power.

Propane Heat
Running this during cold nights is luxurious. Suffered enough on an air mattresses in tents... Just setting the thermostat to 58F and having a good nights sleep is wonderful.

Kitchen sink
Running water to fill pots and bottles, clean dishes etc is great to have.

Filtered fresh water
I use an inline 1 micron charcoal filter and don't worry about drinking water. Once a year I give the system a quick chlorine flush and then replace the filter. Easy.

Roof fan
Comes in really handy quite often. Pulls out hot/stinky air without killing the batteries or requiring the genny. I added a thermo controller and now have it on "Auto" to keep things cool while it is parked in the Sun.

2) Things I don't really want/need

Microwave
I don't use it, not just because it takes battery or genny power (if not plugged in), but the stove can do it all, including heating up frozen food which I simply take out of the freezer ahead of time.

Table
In a tiny space like this 18ft camper, a table is more in the way than helpful. This may be different for folks who work out of the van, but for me, pulling out the cutting board provides additional countertop space if needed.

Winegard/Wifi booster
I don't use it... again for someone working out of the camper it may be a "must have". For me, part of camping means being disconnected.

3) Things that could go either way (mostly depending on who comes along)

Shower / Hot Water
I have used it a couple of times after a hike, and on longer trips. In hot weather, a solar shower bag works for me too, as well as the outdoor shower connection. Not so much for wife/daughter who prefer the privacy of the RV shower.

Toilet
This was one of the "must haves" in our minds, but honestly, I don't use it much, and we have never used it to poop in it since nobody wants to clean that out of the cassette. The seat is very uncomfortable and especially when it is cold, causes leg cramps. So I rather p in a cup. TMI. Cleaning it out is not a big deal though, so I guess it's good to have just in case.

Bathroom sink
I use it to wash and brush teeth, sometimes, but could probably do without it and just use the kitchen sink and/or outside.

Converter
We are rarely at places with electric hookups, and batteries are usually charged via the Solar Panel or via driving.

Inverter
We don't have a TV in the camper, and there is nothing else really that needs the 110V. Electronics are nowadays charged via USB-C mostly. I also have a power station which has an inverter that is just as capable than the one in the RV, and can even run the Microwave if I wanted to.

Generator
The only time we need this is in hot climates without hookup, when we need to run the A/C. This rarely happens, so rarely that I wish I could just let the motor idle and have a way to better direct the dash A/C into the interior. I thing I used the genny ONCE to recharge batteries.

A/C
See above. It's great to have when needed, but it does not happen that often for me. Maybe 3-4 days every other year. This was also one of our imagined "must haves" initially.

4) Things I wish it had

Better insulation
Gets very hot, very quickly when the sun hits. We can cover most glass, but the roof and side panels have some areas that are basically just metal and get super hot. Wish they had splurged a bit with insulating foam or more rock wool or whatnot.

Skylight
I think an additional source of natural light may be nice, of course with some insulating cover if it is too sunny or too cold. Stargazing? Difficult to find space at the top though. Maybe... instead of the Winegard.

Bug screen in the back
Sometimes opening up the sliding door and the back doors provides better air flow and views. Having a bug screen in the back (there is one on the slider) would come in handy. We can close the interior bathroom sliding doors, but of course that cuts the airflow and views as well...

More Clearance
The distance from stuff underneath the car (generator, batteries) to the road surface is not great. I understand it's not a 4WD Revel, but I hold my breath each time I go over a speed bump or out of a gas station.

Lithium batteries
Maybe... there are some drawbacks too, but the higher capacity/lower weight really tempt. I bought a Li Power Station which works really well for most things, in addition to the existing AGM batteries.

Of course everyone is different - some prefer Microwaves, some always plug in, etc. Feel free to share your experience/opinions.
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Old 05-11-2023, 03:53 AM   #55
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..........................

Better insulation
Gets very hot, very quickly when the sun hits. We can cover most glass, but the roof and side panels have some areas that are basically just metal and get super hot. Wish they had splurged a bit with insulating foam or more rock wool or whatnot.

...................
I have no idea how difficult would be remove cabinets and wall panels but if it is possible Thinsulate would be easy to insert. I have 2-4" Thinsulate and it works great and it makes the van very quiet.
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Old 05-12-2023, 02:48 AM   #56
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I have no idea how difficult would be remove cabinets and wall panels but if it is possible Thinsulate would be easy to insert. I have 2-4" Thinsulate and it works great and it makes the van very quiet.
Thank you, great idea for a project when I have some time on my hands!
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Old 05-25-2023, 08:24 PM   #57
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Smile How To turn on Microwave in Rize 18M without Generators

Currently trying to figure out how to turn on the Rize 18M microwave without using the generator as the location im in wont allow me to use a generator and its about the only way i'm gonna be able to warm up my popcorn is the generator the only way?
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Old 05-25-2023, 08:55 PM   #58
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Currently trying to figure out how to turn on the Rize 18M microwave without using the generator as the location im in wont allow me to use a generator and its about the only way i'm gonna be able to warm up my popcorn is the generator the only way?

It all depends on how much battery capacity you have and if you have a large enough inverter. Generally for AGM you would want more the 250ah and have them near full unless you have in the 400ah range and a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter. You might get by on 1500 watts of inverter, which we did for a while, but it depends on the brand of microwave and inverter, I think.


Of course the van also needs to be wired so the inverter is hooked up to the inverter when it is on. Not all vans are, Roadtrek has many older ones that are that way for instance. I don't know if yours is.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:59 PM   #59
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Currently trying to figure out how to turn on the Rize 18M microwave without using the generator as the location im in wont allow me to use a generator and its about the only way i'm gonna be able to warm up my popcorn is the generator the only way?
Simple answer is, you shall not. Generator or shore power are the only official ways.

I asked that same question in a different forum, and half told me to go ahead, and half said I am an idiot and should just add batteries and upgrade my inverter and throw out that stupid camper and get a different one.
My question was, why can't I use the existing 1000W inverter to run the 1000W microwave? Thor obviously does not want us to, but then again, it's as easy as plugging an extension cord into an inverter-driven outlet.
And no, I have not tried it out. Yet. I am worried my inverter will blow up. Not that I use it for anything really.

Now I did get me a little "Power Station" (https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...ery-13694.html) and that one says 1000W limit, and does run the microwave without complaining too much. So that's an option for me. Then again, I can do without popcorn while on the road, and so my MW is mostly unused.
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:23 PM   #60
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Simple answer is, you shall not. Generator or shore power are the only official way.
My question was, why can't I use the existing 1000W inverter to run the 1000W microwave? Thor obviously does not want us to, but then again, it's as easy as plugging an extension cord into an inverter-driven outlet.

A 1000 watt microwave uses much more than that on input side, probably 1200+ watts while running and much more than that starting. A 1500 watt Samlex pure sine wave inverter was just barely enough to run the 700 watt Dometic microwave we have. You would need at least 2000 watts, maybe 2500 watts to run a 1000 watt microwave.
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