Rapido's Plans for Roadtrek

[Davydd]

To sum it all up, you are up sheet creek for warranties and you can't blame Erwin Hymer, the original Roadtrek owners Home & Park, Thor or Rapido. It all goes back to the executive group put in place by that Chicago holding group put in place in 2011. Thor saw through it and kept hands off. Erwin Hymer in hindsight evidently was scammed by them. Home & Park was out of it in 2011 other than I assume a landlord. Rapido just picked up the pieces and got a brand name, "Roadtrek". I think Rapido was pretty generous giving a 2 year warranty of $1,500 limit. That fixes installation issues like cabinets and such, but does not repair the flawed ecoTrek designs. As mentioned most everything else (fridge, microwave, air conditioner, etc.) is picked up by manufacturing warranties and is not much. Anybody that buys a lithium battery "proprietary" ecoTrek needs to understand they do so at their on risk.

[RossWilliams]

Lets be clear. Most owners of Roadtreks produced over the past decade are very happy with them. It seems that owners of Roadtrek's older than that are almost a cult in their support of the brand. It appears that Rapido has found the Roadtrek dealers enthusiastic about the products Roadtrek produced and anxious for them to resume production. Not what you would expect if they were being overwhelmed by complaints from unhappy customers.

Even the internet forum meme about problems with the lithium batteries appears overblown. When someone on Facebook page devoted to Ecotrek systems started talking about replacing their trouble-free Ecotrek batteries in anticipation of problems, a whole group of people posted that they had not had any problems. Rapido apparently found that same reality and decided to continue with the Ecotrek battery system when they could easily abandon it if the actual experience was that bad.

Finally most of what people here "know" about the Hymer/Roadtrek breakup is based on what appear to have been baseless rumors. Hymer had aggressively expanded EHGNA beyond the existing Roadtrek it purchased. This is the typical failure you see when companies expand too fast. I doubt Hymer was "scammed" into that. More likely Hymer was trying to scam Thor, got caught and blamed the execs at Roadtrek.

[HitchNride]

Originally Posted by Davydd

To sum it all up, you are up sheet creek for warranties and you can't blame Erwin Hymer, the original Roadtrek owners Home & Park, Thor or Rapido. It all goes back to the executive group put in place by that Chicago holding group put in place in 2011. Thor saw through it and kept hands off. Erwin Hymer in hindsight evidently was scammed by them. Home & Park was out of it in 2011 other than I assume a landlord. Rapido just picked up the pieces and got a brand name, "Roadtrek". I think Rapido was pretty generous giving a 2 year warranty of $1,500 limit. That fixes installation issues like cabinets and such, but does not repair the flawed ecoTrek designs. As mentioned most everything else (fridge, microwave, air conditioner, etc.) is picked up by manufacturing warranties and is not much. Anybody that buys a lithium battery "proprietary" ecoTrek needs to understand they do so at their on risk.

The darned Girard is only 1 year though, unfortunately. Ah well.

[booster]

Originally Posted by HitchNride

The darned Girard is only 1 year though, unfortunately. Ah well.

You might want to contact Girard and see what they say about your situation. They may make some kind of good will adjustment replacement or repair, or at least a discount.

[HitchNride]

Originally Posted by booster

You might want to contact Girard and see what they say about your situation. They may make some kind of good will adjustment replacement or repair, or at least a discount.

Nope... they asked what year it was, and immediately said "oh, so sorry... but you have to buy a new board". The board costs half of a new heater! So for now what I did was to get a portable hot water heater (aka camping shower). Have to vent since it consumes oxygen, but it works great. So I'm the proud owner of what was originally six figure class B, using a 5-gallon water jug and a $100 camping shower, lol! (basically, it made me regret my decision to not just convert a regular van myself for my needs.. shower was a big item for having a class B, and the bed; kitchen I really don't even care about)

I mean, granted, at $200, the board isn't that much. But then, do I trust them it works? And the rest of the heater is already looking very weathered, might as well pop the whole thing out for $400... and THEN, I might as well just switch to a 6 gallon traditional water heater for the same price (but more installation work), and have something that can actually work well for dry camping! Once my mind went down that road, the camp shower made much more sense for the meantime (and I hoped in that time, the company would get resurrected with a warranty I could use to fall back on).

[mumkin]

When I ordered my Simplicity from RT, it was just when they were switching over to the Girard. I specifically asked for the Suburban because I had read about darn near everyone totally hating the Girard.

You could easily switch back to the Suburban. It fits in the same space and while not fancy tech... it is dependable and easily fixed. A number of people have done this.

I know another person who switched it out to one of the Truma options, but their best option won't fit.

[HitchNride]

Originally Posted by mumkin

When I ordered my Simplicity from RT, it was just when they were switching over to the Girard. I specifically asked for the Suburban because I had read about darn near everyone totally hating the Girard.

You could easily switch back to the Suburban. It fits in the same space and while not fancy tech... it is dependable and easily fixed. A number of people have done this.

I know another person who switched it out to one of the Truma options, but their best option won't fit.

Hi mumkin! Yep, I remember reading your posts about it when I considered switching mine out. It's not a direct replacement though right - the gas lines need to be moved/extended/re-done to fit where they need to go, wiring run, and then the big thing is changing the door out and adding gaskets so it won't let water in (and ideally painting to match the exterior)? That's why I was hesitant to do it, didn't want to spend $500 or more just for the installation charge if it takes the shop all day to do it. But yeah if it seems likely this will be a keeper for the long haul, definitely will be going for it. (plus not to mention - using the onboard alterernator to do the electric hot water heater element - why use gas! Heat the whole tank on your drive, shut it off then if you need to run roof AC (or maybe it can handle both the hot water heater and that on - but doesn't really matter, six gallons of hot is plenty)

Edit - oops, I forgot you had it installed from the factory. There was another person on here I think who switched it out and had to paint the access door, weather seal it, etc. Never mind my original last paragraph.

[mumkin]

Yes, it was done at the factory. Luckily I just happened to look closely at the new brochure online and saw that the 2019s had a Girard door and I immediately called my salesman and asked him to call the factory and get the Suburban.

Some did the switch... or had an RV shop do it for them more likely... over on the FB pages.

The major beef for those with the Zion/Simplicity and Girard was that it wastes so much water... added to the problem of the supposed 22 gal gray tank which is really more like 10-15 if you get the vent fix. (and less if you don't) You end up with a one navy shower gray tank with the girard.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Yes, it was done at the factory. Luckily I just happened to look closely at the new brochure online and saw that the 2019s had a Girard door and I immediately called my salesman and asked him to call the factory and get the Suburban.

Some did the switch... or had an RV shop do it for them more likely... over on the FB pages.

The major beef for those with the Zion/Simplicity and Girard was that it wastes so much water... added to the problem of the supposed 22 gal gray tank which is really more like 10-15 if you get the vent fix. (and less if you don't) You end up with a one navy shower gray tank with the girard.

Nice bit of "engineering" and lack of testing before release with both issues.

[booster]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Yes, it was done at the factory. Luckily I just happened to look closely at the new brochure online and saw that the 2019s had a Girard door and I immediately called my salesman and asked him to call the factory and get the Suburban.

Some did the switch... or had an RV shop do it for them more likely... over on the FB pages.

The major beef for those with the Zion/Simplicity and Girard was that it wastes so much water... added to the problem of the supposed 22 gal gray tank which is really more like 10-15 if you get the vent fix. (and less if you don't) You end up with a one navy shower gray tank with the girard.

I have always wondered if the low capacity of the fresh tank, even after the vent fix, was really another of those specification games that Roadtrek liked to play. They did similar on the Chevy models when they started including the water heater volume in the "fresh water capacity" rating to make it look better on paper. Of course, the extra amount is unusable "capacity" so not the same as tank capacity. They got caught on the Chevies because everyone already knew how big the tanks were, but that wouldn't happen on the Zion/Simplicity which was new.

[RossWilliams]

And what does any EHGNA problem, assuming there was one, have to do with the future of Roadtrek? This is another of those off-topic digressions.

[HitchNride]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

And what does any EHGNA problem, assuming there was one, have to do with the future of Roadtrek? This is another of those off-topic digressions.

I think it has everything to do with Rapido, regarding warranty coverage. That is what brought me here. (not sure if that was your question and if it was directed to me...)

[HitchNride]

Originally Posted by booster

I have always wondered if the low capacity of the fresh tank, even after the vent fix, was really another of those specification games that Roadtrek liked to play. They did similar on the Chevy models when they started including the water heater volume in the "fresh water capacity" rating to make it look better on paper. Of course, the extra amount is unusable "capacity" so not the same as tank capacity. They got caught on the Chevies because everyone already knew how big the tanks were, but that wouldn't happen on the Zion/Simplicity which was new.

Yep I wouldn't doubt it. Truck campers do this also, since the tanks are really small on some of them. However, they DO (or at least they did - or Lance does/did) list that "extra" capacity in parentheses, which I think is totally fair, since it is usable as hot water (but not cold water, unless you count draining it from outside, lol).

[BillsPaseo]

It isn't really usability capacity, because as soon as your fresh tank goes empty, your water pump can't pressurize the hot tank. So exterior drain is the only way to get to that water.

[RossWilliams]

"I think it has everything to do with Rapido, regarding warranty coverage."

I agree, but Rapido's warranty coverage or lack of it has to nothing to do with nature of the problem or what caused the problem. In short, the conversation about the merits of instant hot water tanks have nothing to do with this topic. Its just an opportunity for some people to vent about EHGNA's design decisions.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by BillsPaseo

It isn't really usability capacity, because as soon as your fresh tank goes empty, your water pump can't pressurize the hot tank. So exterior drain is the only way to get to that water.

Wouldn't simply filling your fresh water tank give you access to it? It seems like a theoretical problem, rather than a real one since most people probably don't let the fresh water go empty very often. They probably haven't modified their water system either.

I have a webasto diesel hot water system, I have no idea whether the hot water will work once the fresh water tank is empty. I am pretty sure the instant hot water on the counter won't, but it has a pretty small tank.

I have no doubt complaints here about EHGNA's Roadtrek designs will continue with Rapido. I am sure Rapido will make changes that they think are improvements but the new Roadtrek company needs to listen to and satisfy its customers, not worry about the critics.

[BillsPaseo]

You must not boondock. If you have to add water to access the water, how is it usable capacity?

[RossWilliams]

"You must not boondock."

I have never connected to water and very rarely to electricity.

"If you have to add water to access the water, how is it usable capacity? "

You are right, it isn't. I wasn't thinking in terms of counting the hot water tank as part of the fresh water supply. I never saw an RV speced that way when we were looking last fall. They all talk about fresh water tank size.

That's the way every Roadtrek we saw was speced and I doubt the new Roadtrek will change that.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"You must not boondock."

I have never connected to water and very rarely to electricity.

"If you have to add water to access the water, how is it usable capacity? "

You are right, it isn't. I wasn't thinking in terms of counting the hot water tank as part of the fresh water supply. I never saw an RV speced that way when we were looking last fall. They all talk about fresh water tank size.

That's the way every Roadtrek we saw was speced and I doubt the new Roadtrek will change that.

You must not have seen the Chevy models, as Roadtrek changed maybe 4-5 years ago from listing tank size, to fresh water capacity which included the water heater. After they got too much heat on it, they changed to fresh water capacity (including 6 gal water heater).


Original discussion from 2014 here:


http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...ings-2883.html


Note that it says that the spec section of an owner manual says that water heater included at some point, but not the sales literature which shoppers see.


Pleasure-way was doing the same thing, it appears.