I agree, just need someone understanding the issue.
There is also every possibility the Ecotrek will just turn into a drop in lithium like Pleasure-way is using, with other off the shelf non proprietary chargers and controls. If they are wise, only the name should probably be kept.
J
Observation: I see they assembled an executive team but did not announce a CEO. Do you think the CEO is already on board or did they select the team before a CEO? Odd that a CEO would not have input if not already selected especially with essentially an all new company.
Prediction: The current line up including the Etrek technology will only be stopgap to re-establish the company. I think they will have a fairly rapid conversion once they get a handle on what they have and learn the north American market. There are way more better options in lithium batteries and systems than what they will inherit.
Also most of the new executive team are former RT/EHGNA staff members according to their LinkedIn profiles. So I hope that different decisions will be made or the results will be same as before.
Also most of the new executive team are former RT/EHGNA staff members according to their LinkedIn profiles. So I hope that different decisions will be made or the results will be same as before.
Didn't the new owners say very specifically early on that they would be going with a totally new management team without Hymer holdovers?
Didn't the new owners say very specifically early on that they would be going with a totally new management team without Hymer holdovers?
I suspect that some of them have been moved up to management. I would hope that there are some former employees who tried to do the right thing have been hired back and maybe be given some more responsibility. Maybe that is my wishful thinking. You would also think that many have already found other employment. These people may have been part of the team working with the receiver.
I suspect that some of them have been moved up to management. I would hope that there are some former employees who tried to do the right thing have been hired back and maybe be given some more responsibility. Maybe that is my wishful thinking. You would also think that many have already found other employment. These people may have been part of the team working with the receiver.
He said in the interview they had a couple of candidates for the CEO position. Roadtrek had 40% market share and a lot of enthusiastic owners, they must have been doing something right.
Its not really surprising that a cutting edge system like the lithium batteries had problems. The question is whether they solved them. I doubt anyone here has the ability to answer that question. Certainly lithium batteries are no longer the novelty they were when Roadtrek introduced them, but what all electric RV's are there that compete with the Etrek?
I suspect that some of them have been moved up to management. I would hope that there are some former employees who tried to do the right thing have been hired back and maybe be given some more responsibility. Maybe that is my wishful thinking. You would also think that many have already found other employment. These people may have been part of the team working with the receiver.
In most companies the employees are the most important piece of the puzzle. I would expect, with a much smaller workforce, a large number of positions are filled by former Roadtrek employees doing the same or similar jobs as they did before. Obviously they are not going to hire back the top management that bankrupted the company. But on a lot of levels Roadtrek was producing very good results.
On interesting thing in the interview was that he kept saying they "want to do things right". And when asked about industry quality control problems he mentioned that they were bringing in someone "new" "from outside" to run the quality control department. You can hear the whole discussion starting at about 6:50 in the video.
He said in the interview they had a couple of candidates for the CEO position. Roadtrek had 40% market share and a lot of enthusiastic owners, they must have been doing something right.
Its not really surprising that a cutting edge system like the lithium batteries had problems. The question is whether they solved them. I doubt anyone here has the ability to answer that question. Certainly lithium batteries are no longer the novelty they were when Roadtrek introduced them, but what all electric RV's are there that compete with the Etrek?
If getting 40% market share by putting out misrepresented products, lying to everyone, cheating safety tests and designs, and threatening to sue you own customers rather than fix the problems they have is doing things right, then yep, the old management did great.
Agree that new tech often has problems, and the true test of a company's integrity and competence is how they react to those problems, and IMO Roadtrek failed the latter badly.
ARV has had systems of better quality for a long time, now you have Volta with an extremely advanced system and the Pure 3 systems which is also doing well. Roadtrek is left way behind at this point, it appears.
Roadtrek needs to do much better than they have in the past, and hopefully Rapido understands this.
As the owner of a 1993 Versitille on a Dodge platform, I personally love the old Iron van and the conversion I have. Mine is pretty simple with no Shower or water heater or generator to fail. Our 2200 Watt generator that fits in the rack handed our AC needs and we stay in state parks or campgrounds with nice showers. The rear bed/dinette is large and comfy and the middle seats make dining very nice for me and my wife. We also have a 1999 LTV Freedom wide body that we plan to sell. We don't like the bed couch especially and the whole interior is just not as comfortable as the Roadtrek.
He said in the interview they had a couple of candidates for the CEO position. Roadtrek had 40% market share and a lot of enthusiastic owners, they must have been doing something right.
Its not really surprising that a cutting edge system like the lithium batteries had problems. The question is whether they solved them. I doubt anyone here has the ability to answer that question. Certainly lithium batteries are no longer the novelty they were when Roadtrek introduced them, but what all electric RV's are there that compete with the Etrek?
Mine. I had an 800ah lithium battery system with second alternator that worked and went out before Wendland and Campskunk got theirs as a beta. They still had 4 separate banks that couldn't be balanced because of it, a not so sophisticated BMS and a Rube Goldberg setup with an AGM battery online. The whole thing needs to be scrapped and quit the proprietary schtick. Volta, Elite Power Systems, Valence, and Battleborn, etc. all have systems that work and are simpler.
If you remember, Wendland dissed Roadtrek's lithium system this year in a podcast and said lithium was not ready for prime time and wouldn't be for 5 years. Tells you what he really thought about it. Then with his Unity he got religion and installed a Battleborn lithium system. Of course they are one of his advertisers.
__________________ Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
He said in the interview they had a couple of candidates for the CEO position. Roadtrek had 40% market share and a lot of enthusiastic owners, they must have been doing something right. ..............
Did someone from Rapido say Roadtrek had a 40% market share or is that your comment Ross? I hope it's the latter.
I think it has been a long time since Roadtrek could have claimed a 40% market share for the year. I did find a month in early 2014 when they topped 40% but that's half a decade ago.
It's obviously a much different market place then 2008 when Roadtrek had a reported 62.6% market share. By 2011 Roadtrek's market share had declined to 47.2%. For 2012 Roadtrek's market share had further declined to 36.3%. EHGNA which included Roadtrek closed out 2018 at 28.8% according to published reports.
I think it has been a long time since Roadtrek could have claimed a 40% market share for the year. I did find a month in early 2014 when they topped 40% but that's half a decade ago.
It's obviously a much different market place then 2008 when Roadtrek had a reported 62.6% market share. By 2011 Roadtrek's market share had declined to 47.2%. For 2012 Roadtrek's market share had further declined to 36.3%. EHGNA which included Roadtrek closed out 2018 at 28.8% according to published reports.
Using accuracy analogy of four idiot lights versus shunt-based monitor, 99% dealer retention is close to stated 95% but better, 40% is better than 29% and both less than ½ which means they are equal, A is practically Ah ridiculously required by nitpickers, electrically powered cars are senseless, and on, and on, and arguing saga continues, right Russ.
It's not my intention to restart any arguments.
Let's keep it accurate for sure.
I'm hoping Rapido somewhat follows Winnebago's method of a rapid rise to the top after introducing the Travato that folks were driving off dealer lots at less than $70K.
The early adopters benefited from lower introductory prices. Once established and improved the price can increase.
I could see myself being one of the early customers if they do that. I don't want anything fancy or expensive/complicated to repair. If a furnace quits I want the parts to be readily available from multiple competitive sources for example. If it's something that requires specialized tools or limited availability specially trained technicians then I don't want it.
"Did someone from Rapido say Roadtrek had a 40% market share or is that your comment Ross?"
Yes, that was my comment and is clearly out of date. It doesn't change the point that the old Roadtrek was creating popular and successful products.
Given its smaller manufacturing capacity, its apparent Rapido/Roadtrek does not expect the new company to have the same overall market share as the old company.
It's not my intention to restart any arguments.
Let's keep it accurate for sure. ………...
My intention was to inhibit arguing, seems as my post didn’t convey my intent, sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
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I'm hoping Rapido somewhat follows Winnebago's method of a rapid rise to the top after introducing the Travato that folks were driving off dealer lots at less than $70K.
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Exactly, if Westfalia CEO would lead Roadtrek transformation he would understand costs and pricing. The based price for Amundsen 600E based on Fiat is 44K € about $49K.
Can you imagine getting a new Class B like that for $50K? It would be a dream come true for lots of folks. Put me on the list!
It will be interesting to see if Rapido can bring prices down through innovative modern manufacturing processes. I wonder what the base price of the bare van is in Europe to get a sense of the conversion cost.
Yes, it is definitely possible with good engineering, modern technologies, and well-run factory. But, but, but, how about black tank, microwave, generator, OK. $50K + $1K black tank + $0.5K microwave + $3.5 generator = $55K plus $30K lithium or nuclear power plant.
My suggestion for NA RV manufacturers would be to confiscate staple guns to begin 21st Century manufacturing, if Westfalia, Adria, Rapido and many other EU manufacturers can do it why can’t we. Big problem is that any mom and pop shop can do a conversion charging $X00K so why not, unless price paradigm shift would happen in NA. The Winnebago and Hymer could have provided a prelude and most likely Rapido knows it.
As I understand it the standard European RV has no air conditioning, no microwave, no inverter and no black water tank. I don't know how large a market there is for that in the US, but some of the do-it-yourself folks have done something similar on a pretty low budget.
As I understand it the standard European RV has no air conditioning, no microwave, no inverter and no black water tank. I don't know how large a market there is for that in the US, but some of the do-it-yourself folks have done something similar on a pretty low budget.
It's partly a question of weight: anything over 3.5 metric tons (7500lbs) require a commercial driving license in Europe (pretty stringent requirements to get it).
Also look at the very German list of options, just to get the cab to the level of comfort a US Promaster is is about 5000€, this doesn't even include a stereo/gps unit. I don't see an option for an automatic transmission but that's usually 1000-2000€ and requires the bigger engines (add another 4-5000€) even the biggest one offered here is a 4cyl 177hp, pretty "wimpy" by US standards. small 95Ah battery, no TV etc. Of course like 99.99% of the Euro-RVs there is a cassette toilet...
Boondocking is getting harder and harder all over Europe, a lot of cities have banned all RVs and are hell bent on preventing you from overnighting, so you're more and more pushed to campgrounds.
It's a different market geared to different crowds (families with young kids going away for the weekends and 2-3 weeks in summer in a camp) more than retirees and there is A LOT of competition and more car-like manufacturing processes, this explain in a good part the prices differences.
It very sad, I know and I'm drooling looking at the designs and choices offered. I really wish I could import a B or small B+ to the US, but it's a real logisitical nightmare, if not pretty much impossible. If anybody has any experience doing this, I'd be interested to know how you did it however.
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