Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[mlts22]

My guess it might be the same people that are buying all the Thor "B" products? I finally saw a black Airstream Interstate in the wild... it was parked across the street from the Hilton hotel in downtown Austin for Ikkicon last weekend.

I agree with Davydd here. Not even the Westfalia Ford Nugget with the extra high roof can sleep more than two people and still be self contained (with a shower and bathroom.) I might understand seating for more than two in a floorplan like RT's RS Adventurous because the van is being used for a second vehicle, but trying to sleep more than two adults is an exercise in futility.

If I were to give the crown for storage for a van, I'd probably give it a toss-up between the RT 210 Popular as mentioned above, or a custom van that is mentioned on the Sportsmobile forums, "Vanessa" that David Elmore (Llamadave) had made. This van has a tremendous amount of rear storage added above the two beds.

[georgelesley]

Each to their own as the saying goes, but as for us, we find the ERA 70A storage to be more than adequate. We still have some compartments half full (none are stuffed) after 12,000 miles of use in the first 6 months. Even our old unit a 20ft '99 American Cruiser had some cabinets not full. I guess our other hobby of canoe and tent camping just helps us get along with less.

That being said however, I cannot see more that two people traveling in any "B" and still being friends after a trip.

[booster]

Originally Posted by bobojay

+2 David....

I still don't get Winnebago's thinking on the 70A ERA, and the new Travato for that matter, that B owners do alot of "tailgating", and that's why they install the exterior speakers, and exterior viewable TV's.
Where do they get these folks that go to the clinics and tell them these things? No class B rv'er I've ever met in 7+ years of being around class B's

Back in October, Marko linked up some past statistics used to calc where the 3 sizes are were compared to before the recession. Results here.

http://classbforum.com/phpBB2/viewto...tart=66#p17303

B's had not come back as far as A's or C's then, and they have lost a lot more ground since. As mentioned, with the boomers retiring at an accelerating rate, and them being the biggest b market, the class b's should be doing well. It really is starting to look like the changes done in how the vans are equipped is hurting them badly in their core market. You can still buy a basic class C, or even an A, but a basic class B is tough to find. The ones that are out there seem to have the wrong equipment in them. A lot of the boomers lost a lot of money in the crash, and are probably pretty leary about spending $120K on a B, when they can "get along" with a $60K class C.

One question I do have of those that have been doing this a while.....

How many of you have ever had your B look like the ones in the ads? You know the ones with fancy wine and glasses, roses on the table, the restaurant looking food on fine china, perfect hair and makeup lady, man with pajamas that cost more than my entire wardrobe, and a van with no clutter in it at all.

I don't think they would want an ad with us

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

One question I do have of those that have been doing this a while.....

How many of you have ever had your B look like the ones in the ads? You know the ones with fancy wine and glasses, roses on the table, the restaurant looking food on fine china, perfect hair and makeup lady, man with pajamas that cost more than my entire wardrobe, and a van with no clutter in it at all.

I don't think they would want an ad with us

I didn't make the cut.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I didn't make the cut.

Now wait a minute. Shouldn't that be a bottle of beer?

[markopolo]

It just seems to take a few days for us to have some recyclables accumulating and a laundry bag sitting in the shower pan. We might have stopped squeezing the sleeping bags into the bolsters in the morning by then too so we definitely wouldn't make the cut for a photo shoot.

I started to feel some pressure around the end of the season to dress up the inside by maybe buying some new towels - must be the ads

[AK49er]

Heck, we have never been to a campground that has hookups, no water, no electric and no dump stations! We are pretty new at this rv stuff so I guess we will have to break down and try it one of these days. With all the "stuff" we carry, nobody would dare take a photo of the inside, heck, I don't even own pajamas!

[markopolo]

November 2013 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2014/01/ss...6-in-november/

Sales are up 3.6% for November and up 14.6% through 11 months for 2013.

Through November, Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. was No. 1 in Class B sales, owning a 38.8% market share, followed by Thor Industries Inc. with a 22.6% share. Winnebago Industries Inc. (17.1%) edged out Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. (17%) for the No. 3 spot.

September 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 37.6% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.2% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 18.1% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.9% market share.

October 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 38.6% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 17.5% market share.

November 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 38.8% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.6% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.1% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 17% market share.

Not much different than last month. Roadtrek continues to increase their lead and Winnebago retains the number 3 spot after getting to that position last month.

[markopolo]

Re: Airstream sales - this recall notice: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...p=18398#p18398 indicates 552 units manufactured from August 2012 through October 2013 could be affected. That number fits in very well with the market share reports we've seen.

[markopolo]

December 2013 Class B Shipment stats have been published on RVIA's site http://www.rvia.org

There was a 7.7% decrease in shipments compared to last December.



For all of 2013, shipments were up 2.5% in the Class B category.

Here's 10 years of shipment data previously published on the internet in chart format:



Hopefully the new lower priced Class B's that are becoming available will drive shipments much higher in 2014.

[booster]

There are probably quite a few folks holding off so they can see the new models before buying, especially with the price difference there appears to be with them.

[Davydd]

It's a reflection on the economy. That graph shows that and the biggest market, the retiring Baby Boomers (age 65 since 2011 and 62 since 200 aren't making much of a dent in the numbers in an assumed recovering economy. I don't see any positives in the numbers because the growth is clearly in Class Cs and As and the other potential market of anyone that might be looking for lower cost, the towables, is just as dismal. Also, B costs have gone up dramatically since the peak in 2007. Will cheaper Bs save the day? I doubt it. LTV dropped their least expensive model, the Chevy because no one bought them. Unless there is something I don't know, the Promaster is going to prove to be lacking by US standards and expectations in a Class B RV. The Ford Transit will most likely be a more viable option because it will mainly fulfill the size that made the T1N Sprinter popular, but then it is just going take away from Sprinter sales but not increase overall sales.

[Mike]

What Davydd said, + 1.
Maybe the current converters who are making the luxury class B in size, with the class A amenities, finish, and price, will have to rethink the granite counter tops and brushed nickel plumbing, and realize that the motorhome market is very unforgiving. Make a good, functional, versatile, off grid camping product, at a reasonable price, and they will come. Make something that appeals almost entirely to those with deep pockets, and most of them will go to a larger sized RV, simply because they can.
In my opinion, a class B van with an MSRP over $100,000 is probably over built, and will only appeal to a very specific and limited group of buyers.

[markopolo]

Just a note: I moved this topic to the Industry News section of the forum to get it out of the busy General section.

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This info: (from http://www.rv.org/class_B.htm )

Production of Class B motor homes doubled from 9,000 in 1971 to 23,000 by 1972. The fuel shortage of the early 1970s may have contributed to this increase because by 1977, over 40,000 had been built. Over the years, more choices of other RV types and a manufacturing trend toward bigger RVs brought a drastic decline in the production of the Class Bs. As of 1996, 16 manufacturers built as few as 4,100 Class B motor homes, and their numbers have continued to dwindle along with the number of manufacturers building them.

sort of sums up the trend.

I think prices would have to go even lower than, for example, the $69,995 RV show price on the Winnebago Travato if we are going to see a doubling or more of Class B shipments. Less costly units would be very basic compared to even the current "economy models". You won't get multi-source hot water heating systems for example in budget units. The warranty might be months instead of years.

I like the features in the high-end units and think it's great that we have so many to choose from. I just think that a basic camper van could appeal to some people as a primary or only vehicle for them. It would get a lot of use and depreciate at the rate of every day use cars. The initial price of the unit would have to reflect that it would have very little value in 10 or 15 years like a lot of cars.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I like the features in the high-end units and think it's great that we have so many to choose from. I just think that a basic camper van could appeal to some people as a primary or only vehicle for them. It would get a lot of use and depreciate at the rate of every day use cars. The initial price of the unit would have to reflect that it would have very little value in 10 or 15 years like a lot of cars.

That in a way is kind of a quandary. The reason you can find fairly old and usable Class Bs older than the average vehicle of 11 years is because they are used sparingly in easy drive highway miles. Then on the other hand people look for sound drivable and very reliable Bs because they travel a long way from home service support and dually rely on them as their home. $70,000 new may be the absolute lowest price which is higher than the average person's annual income. It makes no sense to spend that much money for an every day vehicle that will wear out rapidly from every day use. I know we have people who claim such as our newest member here, accrete, has. Granted there are well thought out exceptions by a few knowledgeable but it is just not going to be the norm. Heck I could probably do it. I traded down a few years ago to a now 11 year old Subaru Baja and I only put 2,000 miles per year on it. However, I don't trust it to drive 175 miles to my son's house and back. I'd hate to have a Class B and feel that way.

44 years ago I did have the largest Chevy passenger van that I converted to what is now known as a Class B by ripping out the seats, putting in a vertical ice chest, a camping stove, curtains, and insulated plywood floor. That's back in the days you just threw your kids on blankets, pillows and sleeping bags in the back. We drove it from Newport, RI to Minneapolis when I got out of the Navy and it was our only vehicle for another year after. It wasn't practical except for camping and grocery shopping. I worked in downtown Minneapolis so had to use public transportation. Then I realized with two weeks of vacation a year it wasn't getting much use when I could only afford one vehicle.

[markopolo]

I haven't looked at new Class B prices in a while so I am surprised to see them over $150,000 on RV Trader

http://www.rvtrader.com/Class-B%3A-R...ort=price:desc

I had to go to page 23 (25 Class B's per page so more than 500 units ) to find one less than $100,000.

This new 2013 Pleasure-Way Lexor TS http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Pl ... -105640911 listed at $76,891 begins to look like a bargain. So does this new Winnebago ERA 70X listed at $78,500 http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Er ... -106869157

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I haven't looked at new Class B prices in a while so I am surprised to see them over $150,000 on RV Trader

http://www.rvtrader.com/Class-B%3A-R...ort=price:desc

I had to go to page 23 (25 Class B's per page so more than 500 units ) to find one less than $100,000.

This new 2013 Pleasure-Way Lexor TS http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Pl ... -105640911 listed at $76,891 begins to look like a bargain. So does this new Winnebago ERA 70X listed at $78,500 http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Er ... -106869157

That definitely shows the trend we have been seeing. Only the folks with lots of money can buy a B these days, I fear. I find it pretty interesting that one of the big incentives of having a class B is that the fuel consumption is less, so it costs less to run, and for most of us here that is a big factor, but I can't imagine how someone who can drop $140K+ on a B would have all that much trouble spending a little more on fuel in a bigger rig. So many of the current trends seem to be counter intuitive in the B market, and probably are contributing to the declines.

[markopolo]

I'm still looking around on RV Trader

On the left side they show # of new units - 2013, 2014

Under Class C approx 3,600 units show as new today. The shipment stats ( http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...art=121#p18453 ) indicate 17,101 new Class C's were shipped in 2013. So approx 2.5 months of shipments are listed on RV Trader.

Under Class A approx 6,300 units show as new today. The shipment stats ( http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...art=121#p18453 ) indicate 19,054 new Class A's were shipped in 2013. So approx 4 months of shipments are listed on RV Trader.

Under Class B approx 1,100 units show as new today. The shipment stats ( http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...art=121#p18453 ) indicate 2,177 new Class B's were shipped in 2013. So approx 6 months of shipments are listed on RV Trader.

This is not remotely scientific or accurate as the listings on sites like RV Trader sometimes include Class C's in the B category for example. Maybe there are duplicate listings. Basically there are errors. If I remember, I'll look again in a few months to see if there is any change in inventories compared to shipments.

[mlts22]

There is a happy medium somewhere. Maybe something like the Ford Nugget?

[Mike]

I'm still thinking about something a little larger (I'm still searching RV Trader, too ) like a small class A "RUV" for a lot less money up front than a class B van. As I see it/in my opinion, the pluses are as mentioned, larger with a bit more space and comfort (elbow room), and perhaps better equipped for off grid or "non-docked" camping and lower price brand new OTD price. The minuses will include worse fuel economy (offset somewhat by the initial price savings?), larger size possibly more restrictive when considering where to stop/camp/stay (although in/at the areas we prefer, we would easily fit at 25' long, just under 8' wide, around 11' tall), and the challenges of a different maintenance world. I can currently get the B chassis serviced at any GM dealer and deal with most of the RV stuff myself, whereas a small A may require some compromises as far as servicing the chassis and RV systems - quite probably more expensive, too.
Too bad our dollar is tanking so badly, but it's still probably cheaper to import one, than to buy domestically, but I haven't made that determination yet. I have some (ahem) limited experience with importation of vehicles from the US. It's time consuming but worthwhile, and relatively easy to do.