Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[Davydd]

I have a thread called Advancing Alvar on here that went from design conception to build to use on our B. I’m contemplating a new B called Mies - “Less is more” or as my wife likes to call it, Get Shorty. I tend to name my Bs after famous 20th Century architects.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I have a thread called Advancing Alvar on here that went from design conception to build to use on our B. I’m contemplating a new B called Mies - “Less is more” or as my wife likes to call it, Get Shorty. I tend to name my Bs after famous 20th Century architects.

Dave, I see that you are on your 3rd RV.. first a 2005, then 2011, now a 2015... shorter time frame from number 2 to number 3....

Were there particular features that you desired in the 2015.. that were unavailable in the 2011??

Turning over vehicles I've found is one of the most expensive things you can do..

[BBQ]

.

The purpose of starting your own thread
is so that you do not hijacking/off-topic/dilute on this thread.
With your own thread, you can ask all kinds of questions and make discussions that are not related the Class B Market Share.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Dave, I see that you are on your 3rd RV.. first a 2005, then 2011, now a 2015... shorter time frame from number 2 to number 3....

Were there particular features that you desired in the 2015.. that were unavailable in the 2011??

Turning over vehicles I've found is one of the most expensive things you can do..

I’ve put on the table about $27,000 on two trade ins over 13 years and 188,000 miles driven so far. I will most likely sell my RV back to Advanced RV as others have done and that is an unknown. My electric articulating bed design has sold many subsequent ARVs simply because no one else has since offered it. Why a fourth? Experience, challenge and changing expectations. In 2011 there was no lithium ion batteries in a B. I got the state of the art in 2015 far superior to what Roadtrek is offering to this day. Now there are better. The challenge. So far every 144” WB Sprinter has rather been spartan in concept. I believe you can have a B on that WB that has the functionality of a longer van and just about everything else I’ve seen from any other manufacturer. So what the heck? Why not a fourth? I’m an architect yet my wife complains I am reluctant to urban driving, yet I have probably done more than many, and the challenge is to go anywhere, not suffer long term travel functionality or behave like a 20 year old hippie in tolerant lifestyle.

Right now in my design I have the kitchen functionality of my existing 24 foot EB Sprinter with a 6.8 cf Novakool refrigerator/Freezer, microwave/convection oven, built in Keurig and nearly as much storage and counter space. I have a larger bathroom. Inside storage for two hanging bicycles or two folding bicycles or anything else desired in such a space. I don’t have to decide whether staying up or sleeping as nothing has to convert.

I’m also aiming for the 2019 Sprinter model which I understand you may be able to order them next month. Plus, I will benefit from the latest developments from Advanced RV to chose from of which there are many.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I’ve put on the table about $27,000 on two trade ins over 13 years and 188,000 miles driven so far. I will most likely sell my RV back to Advanced RV as others have done and that is an unknown. My electric articulating bed design has sold many subsequent ARVs simply because no one else has since offered it. Why a fourth? Experience, challenge and changing expectations. In 2011 there was no lithium ion batteries in a B. I got the state of the art in 2015 far superior to what Roadtrek is offering to this day. Now there are better. The challenge. So far every 144” WB Sprinter has rather been spartan in concept. I believe you can have a B on that WB that has the functionality of a longer van and just about everything else I’ve seen from any other manufacturer. So what the heck? Why not a fourth? I’m an architect yet my wife complains I am reluctant to urban driving, yet I have probably done more than many, and the challenge is to go anywhere, not suffer long term travel functionality or behave like a 20 year old hippie in tolerant lifestyle.

Right now in my design I have the kitchen functionality of my existing 24 foot EB Sprinter with a 6.8 cf Novakool refrigerator/Freezer, microwave/convection oven, built in Keurig and nearly as much storage and counter space. I have a larger bathroom. Inside storage for two hanging bicycles or two folding bicycles or anything else desired in such a space. I don’t have to decide whether staying up or sleeping as nothing has to convert.

I’m also aiming for the 2019 Sprinter model which I understand you may be able to order them next month. Plus, I will benefit from the latest developments from Advanced RV to chose from of which there are many.

David, kudos to you.... cutting edge technology....

From your picture, you appear to be older than me... and I would only hope that I could go another 180,000 miles in my Roadtrek RS Adventurous..

I'm definitely not in the same league as you are financially... can't turn around vehicles that fast... but, I'm happy for you..

I saw a youtube video of Advanced RV.... and they have developed a "four season coach".... nice..

For me... we use this as a touring vehicle.. and because of that, I would never invest in a four season rig..... that's a full timer's thing, if you know what I mean.....

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I’m also aiming for the 2019 Sprinter model which I understand you may be able to order them next month.

If both engines are available on the 2019 Sprinter, will you choose gas or diesel?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

David, kudos to you.... cutting edge technology....

From your picture, you appear to be older than me... and I would only hope that I could go another 180,000 miles in my Roadtrek RS Adventurous..

I'm definitely not in the same league as you are financially... can't turn around vehicles that fast... but, I'm happy for you..

I saw a youtube video of Advanced RV.... and they have developed a "four season coach".... nice..

For me... we use this as a touring vehicle.. and because of that, I would never invest in a four season rig..... that's a full timer's thing, if you know what I mean.....

When you said that you've put $27,000 on the table with two trade ins are you saying that this was your only capital outlay plus the trade in value...?

In other words, are the rigs holding their value that well and enabling you to trade up to the nicer rigs???

[Davydd]

Class Bs hold their value. There is more demand than supply. That’s the concept everyone forgets. To get in, yes, there is a great cash outlay, but once you’re in trading up is not so onerous. You only live once and you have so many years of RVing and most don’t get into it until retirement. Thus, few short years for most. Maybe I’ll change my mind and just buy a Corvette instead.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by BBQ

... You have a good chassis -- the 2011 Sprinter has less messy pollution control than the current ones. You will have less maintenance problems going forward...

Yes 2011 Sprinters are OK. But pollution controls on diesels, including the Sprinter, have been the same since 2010. They all have DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) requiring DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid).

https://www.dieselforum.org/about-cl...el/what-is-scr

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I saw a youtube video of Advanced RV.... and they have developed a "four season coach".... nice..

For me... we use this as a touring vehicle.. and because of that, I would never invest in a four season rig..... that's a full timer's thing, if you know what I mean.....

Why is 4 season plumbing only of value with full timing? I think this feature has less to do with the extent of use and more to do with the freedom to enjoy full use of the coach wherever and whenever you wish. I think its bizarre that while we make all sorts of non-negotiable demands regarding relatively superficial stuff like cabinetry, jazzy lighting etc, when we learn that for 3-4 months out of a year we can't use our RV plumbing, we cheerfully accept it.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Why is 4 season plumbing only of value with full timing? I think this feature has less to do with the extent of use and more to do with the freedom to enjoy full use of the coach wherever and whenever you wish. I think its bizarre that while we make all sorts of non-negotiable demands regarding relatively superficial stuff like cabinetry, jazzy lighting etc, when we learn that for 3-4 months out of a year we can't use our RV plumbing, we cheerfully accept it.

Cruising, you're absolutely correct.... four season plumbing is not really an issue unless you are in inclement weather.. last fall we were traveling in December and actually got into some freakish weather in Birmingham Alabama... snowed December 10.... extremely early for the area....

I live in Southern California... we'll try and avoid the snow .. we're not full time... and probably won't do that ever...bad financial move...

If I ever decided to go full time...I'd likely get a 40 foot class A... Probably won't do that either... again, bad financial investment...

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Class Bs hold their value. There is more demand than supply. That’s the concept everyone forgets. To get in, yes, there is a great cash outlay, but once you’re in trading up is not so onerous. You only live once and you have so many years of RVing and most don’t get into it until retirement. Thus, few short years for most. Maybe I’ll change my mind and just buy a Corvette instead.

David, I followed my father in law's advise... retire early and enjoy your retirement...no do overs....

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

Example: Where is the fresh water tank on the Banff/Axion? It took me 10 minutes of prying to deduce it must be in that black shelf behind the drivers+passenger seats. My conclusion stems from finding that the water fill inlet is in the driver's side door jam (nicely hidden). There is also a black plastic cover behind the driver's seat leading down to the shelf. I took special interest in this because that cover keeps the driver's seat from rotating completely. When I asked a salesman who had visited the factory he said that black cover hides electrical equipment. One of us is wrong.

DougB

You are a mile ahead of the sales guy. Everything you see behind the driver's seat is the freshwater tank (covered by that black cover). When we picked up our Axion we were told that the *only* way to fill the fresh water tank was through the 'city' water connection outside the van behind the driver's side front wheel. Of course if you actually do this you get water spraying out of the fill in the drivers side door jam. Our dealer had thrown way the orange cap that covers the fill and was convinced that this was only a vent

Anyway, I've got plenty of examples (and I'm many other do too) that prove you really need to do you own homework on these Class B rigs and be very weary of the dealer 'experts'...

[Mat Mobile]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I have a thread called Advancing Alvar on here that went from design conception to build to use on our B. I’m contemplating a new B called Mies - “Less is more” or as my wife likes to call it, Get Shorty. I tend to name my Bs after famous 20th Century architects.

Yes, please do start a thread for your next B! I would be really interested.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Mat Mobile

Yes, please do start a thread for your next B! I would be really interested.

Agree - Davydd you have great experience and a good sense for design of B-vans.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[wincrasher]

Well, when the cost of a high end SUV can approach six figures, it's not all that hard to justify a Class B van, retired or not.

I don't know why anyone would consider full-timing to be a bad investment? You can spend alot of money each day, or very little. Depends on how you like to be entertained. Hiking, kayaking and biking are pretty cheap.

Sitting at home, bored, is when I find I spend too much money.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well, when the cost of a high end SUV can approach six figures, it's not all that hard to justify a Class B van, retired or not.

I don't know why anyone would consider full-timing to be a bad investment? You can spend alot of money each day, or very little. Depends on how you like to be entertained. Hiking, kayaking and biking are pretty cheap.

Sitting at home, bored, is when I find I spend too much money.

Of course it all depends on how you prioritize and spend money.... BUT, it's pretty much a given that your vehicles will depreciate a lot more than your home will...and in many cases your house will just continue to go UP in value......

Our house has gone up 600 percent since we purchased it... made it possible for me to have an RV. An RV starts losing value the day you purchased it ... new or used....in fact, purchased new...the deprecation is the steepest curve ever....loses on average 40 to 50 percent of its value in the first five years... after that...it starts to level off and go more slowly...

The reverse is true with a house... over time...it just gets more valuable.... we've been in our house for over 35 years...I know exactly where it's going.... Not down.. that's for sure...

I realize that a lot of people like full time...and I know it's a "life style" .. maybe it's working for some of you... not my desire.. good luck.....

I'm just having to have an RV to enjoy from time to time... enjoy your rig...

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Of course it all depends on how you prioritize and spend money.... BUT, it's pretty much a given that your vehicles will depreciate a lot more than your home will...and in many cases your house will just continue to go UP in value......

Our house has gone up 600 percent since we purchased it... made it possible for me to have an RV. An RV starts losing value the day you purchased it ... new or used....in fact, purchased new...the deprecation is the steepest curve ever....loses on average 40 to 50 percent of its value in the first five years... after that...it starts to level off and go more slowly...

The reverse is true with a house... over time...it just gets more valuable.... we've been in our house for over 35 years...I know exactly where it's going.... Not down.. that's for sure...

I realize that a lot of people like full time...and I know it's a "life style" .. maybe it's working for some of you... not my desire.. good luck.....

I'm just having to have an RV to enjoy from time to time... enjoy your rig...

Well you are starting from an assumption that you trade your house for an RV. Why would you need to do that? Keep your house for when full-timing is done - nobody stays on the road forever. So it's not a one over the other argument. Not to mention, you could always rent out your house (especially in high rent areas) or airbnb it, and make some money to fund your travels.

So Cal is an aberration on values - most of the country, the financial wisdom of investing in real estate is somewhat questionable - there are many more investments that have better yield and no maintenance, utilities and tax burden each year. Plus, CA always seems to be boom & bust, so your timing has to be right to get a big return. Unless you move away, your big gain is consumed by the high price of finding another suitable house.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

...
So Cal is an aberration on values....

We in Houston tend to assume that the people who choose to live in So Cal must be under-written by family money to afford those houses. The math simply doesn't work otherwise. But it's not always the case. On Monday my husband had to commute to the Los Angeles area for a business meeting. As he was chatting up one of the other participants, he discovered that the guy's mortgage is four times what ours is -- and ours is a 15-year mortgage. Four times. That's so high that it takes 100% of one well-compensated professional person's salary just to pay it. I'd simply never live there.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

We in Houston tend to assume that the people who choose to live in So Cal must be under-written by family money to afford those houses. The math simply doesn't work otherwise. But it's not always the case. On Monday my husband had to commute to the Los Angeles area for a business meeting. As he was chatting up one of the other participants, he discovered that the guy's mortgage is four times what ours is -- and ours is a 15-year mortgage. Four times. That's so high that it takes 100% of one well-compensated professional person's salary just to pay it. I'd simply never live there.

Having been involved in hiring engineers and managers to work in Southern California I can tell you that housing costs get factored into salary and bonus calculations. Those engineers doing same try of work get paid a lot more than same type of engineer in Texas.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream