Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[Mat Mobile]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Re web presence

WGO have the FitRV and tons of Lichtsinn videos.

RT have the Roadtrekking Mike Wendell.

Hymer have the We're the Russos.

I believe Safari Condo has Go-van.com

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I would never expect an RV salesman to know much about any particular product. Look at the big picture -- Most dealers carry 50+ different models. Trailers and Class A are the big money makers. ClassB is 1% of the total market. If you are a salesman, where would you spend your time?

I'm curious about the commission dealers get on new RV's. Even if it's 1% of their biz, they should know more about a product that sells for around $100K. I learned far more about the WGO Revel from the FitRV than I ever did from a WGO dealer.

I'm the kind of person that would rather save a few $$ and buy factory direct if I could. The dealers position themselves as providing some sort of essential service to the customer, but I'm not clear on what that is. Others can pay for the service if they value it; that's how I see it...

[michaelingp]

My impression (a few years old) is that despite their million dollar inventories, most RV dealers are run like Mom and Pop shops, hiring a lot of relatives, not investing in training, little management and loath to fire anyone. My favorite experience was at a Maryland dealer we visited. The only salesman in the showroom was fast asleep at his desk! We were fine with that, because we could browse the vehicles without being bothered, and he was still asleep when we left!

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

I'm curious about the commission dealers get on new RV's. Even if it's 1% of their biz, they should know more about a product that sells for around $100K. I learned far more about the WGO Revel from the FitRV than I ever did from a WGO dealer.

I'm the kind of person that would rather save a few $$ and buy factory direct if I could. The dealers position themselves as providing some sort of essential service to the customer, but I'm not clear on what that is. Others can pay for the service if they value it; that's how I see it...

In terms of the 1%... mathematically speaking... if the salesman sells one RV per week, it will be 2 years before he strikes one single Class B sale.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by BBQ

If people can't afford a commercial-built RV, they would go DIY.

Or if they can't get what they want. That's the direction George Chip Mauro is going and he has many videos to describe what he is doing on Humble Road.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE9...s0Nsg?reload=9

Also, these people being from Canada are building an Advanced RV clone because they had import road blocks in buying an Advanced RV. This is their blog. They will be at the B-Rally next week in Tennessee.

The Story of Sapphire - Our DIY

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

My impression (a few years old) is that despite their million dollar inventories, most RV dealers are run like Mom and Pop shops, hiring a lot of relatives, not investing in training, little management and loath to fire anyone. My favorite experience was at a Maryland dealer we visited. The only salesman in the showroom was fast asleep at his desk! We were fine with that, because we could browse the vehicles without being bothered, and he was still asleep when we left!

You and kite-rider just need to have some dealings with Lichtsinn RV in Iowa. Their sales staff is trained several hours throughout the week on all their units, and can answer most any question about their inventory. If not they find out and get back to you. Everything is up front and 100% honest dealing. Their service writers and some of their service guys are hired from Winnebago, most with more than 10 years WGO service. Not like most of the RV dealers out there you are talking about for sure....
Am I biased? For sure. We've had 3 no less than perfect deals with them up there along with the delivery experiences

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

My impression (a few years old) is that despite their million dollar inventories, most RV dealers are run like Mom and Pop shops, hiring a lot of relatives, not investing in training, little management and loath to fire anyone. My favorite experience was at a Maryland dealer we visited. The only salesman in the showroom was fast asleep at his desk! We were fine with that, because we could browse the vehicles without being bothered, and he was still asleep when we left!

True for the majority of dealers but there are exceptions. For Class Bs there is Van City in St Louis and their associated dealers elsewhere, Sunshine State RV in Florida, and there was American RV in Grand Rapids MI which has been bought by Camping World so who knows what has happened there, just to name a few...

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

True for the majority of dealers but there are exceptions. For Class Bs there is Van City in St Louis and their associated dealers elsewhere, Sunshine State RV in Florida, and there was American RV in Grand Rapids MI which has been bought by Camping World so who knows what has happened there, just to name a few...

Van City is now part of a dealer group with zero ties to the previous great owner. I had recent dealings with both St Louis and Colorado. Neither were nowhere what the previous experience was with the "old" Van City.
They have become a major Leisure Travel dealer and are now leaning towards class C's

[dougbaty]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I would never expect an RV salesman to know much about any particular product. Look at the big picture -- Most dealers carry 50+ different models. Trailers and Class A are the big money makers. ClassB is 1% of the total market. If you are a salesman, where would you spend your time?

Having a wide product line is a poor excuse for not knowing your products. Surely dealers could hire someone who specializes in only one line - say Hymer Carados . There are lots of retired people with lots of experience who would welcome a seasonal P.T. job.

As for me, for the last year I have simply been looking over Axions and Banffs during local RV shows while reading blogs on this forum. Already I know much more tech stuff than any sales staff I encounter. Being enthusiastic helps. Most sales staff don't seem to have any interest in tech details or how their vans are designed.

Example: Where is the fresh water tank on the Banff/Axion? It took me 10 minutes of prying to deduce it must be in that black shelf behind the drivers+passenger seats. My conclusion stems from finding that the water fill inlet is in the driver's side door jam (nicely hidden). There is also a black plastic cover behind the driver's seat leading down to the shelf. I took special interest in this because that cover keeps the driver's seat from rotating completely. When I asked a salesman who had visited the factory he said that black cover hides electrical equipment. One of us is wrong.

DougB

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

I think WGO has won out by having an intelligent online presence with product placement through blog sites and YouTube stars like the FitRV and similar influencers. Hymer doesn't seem to get this and it's brand suffers from the lack of informed 'promoters' for it's products.

Both Winnebago and Roadtrek/Hymer do seem to have pretty good YouTube and blogging representation, including Mike Wendland's Roadtreking site which tends to focus on the Roadtrek / Hymer products.

But I think Winnebago stands apart from the other factory brands in outreach to non-traditional RV markets, including the outdoor adventure, vanlife and expedition segments. Winnebago has sponsored events at the Outdoor Retailer industry shows, RV Entrepreneur Summit, Sea Otter Classic cycling event, and most recently Overland Expo with the new Revel 4x4 unit.

And Winnebago didn't just attempt to push current models into unfamiliar markets. At Outdoor Retailer they previewed the Concept Adventure Van and solicited outdoor industry and user survey feedback for what became the successful new Revel model. Russ Garfin, Winnebago's Class B/C product manager, seems to be at the forefront of these efforts, personally attending many of the events and interacting with users and audience members.

Observing podcasts and videos of Russ Garfin versus Jim Hammill from Hymer/Roadtrek is a study in contrasts. Hammill's proclamations tend to be outbound oriented, all about how Roadtrek/Hymer is the biggest and best, whereas Garfin's interactions tend to be more two-way, with Russ explaining new products/concepts while soliciting user feedback. I think that difference shows up in their resulting products too.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Honestly, I didn't want to read through the past 61 pages on this post... don't know any of you who might do this just recently visiting this forum?

My take is this; there's a price point in Class B's for everyone and we decided to purchase our rig used to save on the immediate depreciation factor.... although, I have to admit that with the upgrades and necessary things to get the RV "road ready", I wound up putting more than $10,000 into the rig above and beyond the purchase price.....it's a capital investment for safety on the road...

Everyone seems to have an opinion about which Class B is best..... and there's certainly some budget models in every line.... think Simplicity by Roadtrek or on the other side of the scale the higher priced E-Trek or my model with the dual wheels.

One thing that is clear to me and what brought me to Roadtrek is the fact that they "only build Class B's".... they're not diversified like Winnebago and Airstream or others trying to build everything.

I'm pretty pleased with the build quality.... of course there's always something to be desired. Just enjoy the one you purchased and remember that you can always choose a newer and upgraded model next time.

[wincrasher]

Winnebago has a dedicated shop to build Class B vans. What you get is the enormous buying power that a diversified manufacturer of this size, plus the ability to manufacture many of the parts they need - like the aluminum and plastic extruding they can do. Also they can move labor around as the products demand it.

As far as persons go - RG and JH are not in the same league. I've spoken with both, in person, several times (I've spent much more time with Russ). If you ever have the pleasure of meeting Russ in person you'd be impressed with his forthrightness and honesty. He cares about what his customers want and really listens - they've made numerous changes to the Travato and Era based on this feedback. Of course he can't do just anything - there are corporate considerations of course, but he won't shine you on like Jim will. JH is not even a likable guy, and certainly will lie to your face, denigrate other company's products etc. I could go on..

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Honestly, I didn't want to read through the past 61 pages on this post... don't know any of you who might do this just recently visiting this forum?

...

This thread chronicles the changes in market share. It is more a historical archive than a continuous discussion of any specific things in particular.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Honestly, I didn't want to read through the past 61 pages on this post... don't know any of you who might do this just recently visiting this forum?

My take is this; there's a price point in Class B's for everyone and we decided to purchase our rig used to save on the immediate depreciation factor.... although, I have to admit that with the upgrades and necessary things to get the RV "road ready", I wound up putting more than $10,000 into the rig above and beyond the purchase price.....it's a capital investment for safety on the road...

Everyone seems to have an opinion about which Class B is best..... and there's certainly some budget models in every line.... think Simplicity by Roadtrek or on the other side of the scale the higher priced E-Trek or my model with the dual wheels.

One thing that is clear to me and what brought me to Roadtrek is the fact that they "only build Class B's".... they're not diversified like Winnebago and Airstream or others trying to build everything.

I'm pretty pleased with the build quality.... of course there's always something to be desired. Just enjoy the one you purchased and remember that you can always choose a newer and upgraded model next time.

You have a good RV; you have nothing to worry about.

You have a good chassis -- the 2011 Sprinter has less messy pollution control than the current ones. You will have less maintenance problems going forward.

You have a good RT model year.
You have one of the last "good old tested and true dependable technology" RTs.

https://www.thestar.com/autos/2015/0...-the-road.html

“Things were pretty sad from 2009 to 2011,” said Paul Cassidy, Roadtrek’s vice-president of sales and marketing. “Those were very difficult times in the RV business and especially for the Canadian manufacturers, but since then we’ve picked up the pace.”

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by BBQ

You have a good RV; you have nothing to worry about.

You have a good chassis -- the 2011 Sprinter has less messy pollution control than the current ones. You will have less maintenance problems going forward.

You have a good RT model year.
You have one of the last "good old tested and true dependable technology" RTs.

https://www.thestar.com/autos/2015/0...-the-road.html

“Things were pretty sad from 2009 to 2011,” said Paul Cassidy, Roadtrek’s vice-president of sales and marketing. “Those were very difficult times in the RV business and especially for the Canadian manufacturers, but since then we’ve picked up the pace.”

I appreciate your reply.... funny how that article said that Roadtrek changed their name in 2009??? Must be a typo....

We've had a few issues... mostly with the Mercedes.. they replaced the entire emissions system under warranty...the warranty for this is 8 years or 80,000 miles.. yes, we have the DEF Bluetec system...

Here's what I got.....it's very nice, I think for the $79k plus 9.75 % tax.. etc..( this was almost $7,000 alone) some financing charges.... plus all the upgrades I made.. have $105 estimated invested....all of this adds up fast....

Pics and details below ...

https://www.conejowholesaleauto.com/...beffb59e9eb708

We've already taken the rig across the USA once...and plan more trips.....I see so many people with big Class A's and other larger rigs that sit around and never go anywhere... I didn't want to be that person...... purchased it with 26,000 miles... now has 41,000....

Diesels are longer term engines... just getting started... my Mercedes dealership said it's not even broken in yet...

Overall, I think Roadtrek has pretty decent quality... and they have been accelerating the pace recently.. hopefully they don't tarnish their reputation with low quality products...

I immediately replaced the tires, batteries, few repairs... dump hose cracked, probably due to weather conditions.. propane gas sensor..( timed out)...

Plus, I elected for a better sound system, cameras, proximity sensors..for safety...
And, next week.. getting a complete suspension upgrade.. new KONI FSD shocks, trac bar and anti-sway bar..... safety, safety, safety.....

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I appreciate your reply.... funny how that article said that Roadtrek changed their name in 2009??? Must be a typo....

.....

I took a double take as well. That sentence was not phrased properly.

I would suggest you start a thread on your RV. You have a gem that's worth sharing.

[BBQ]

.

Roadtrek history:

https://www.therecord.com/news-story...-manufacturer/

Erwin Hymer Group North America, Inc. (Formerly Roadtrek) - Canadian Recreational Vehicle Association


Founded in 1974 under the name Home & Park Vehicles

The company was purchased in 1975 by one of its earliest customers, Jac Hanemaayer

it was acquired in 2011 by Industrial Opportunity Partners

German-based Erwin Hymer Group's purchased Roadtrek in 2016
At the time, Roadtrek sells about 1,000 vehicles a year, giving it 30 per cent of the North American market share in the camper van or Class B segment.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I took a double take as well. That sentence was not phrased properly.

I would suggest you start a thread on your RV. You have a gem that's worth sharing.

BBQ-, SO. you really think I should start my own thread and share this.??

Yeah, I think it was a pretty good deal...for the price...my first RV... don't know if I'll ever get a replacement... hopefully, I won't have to...

You think these are that hard to find?? Maybe I was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time...this rig had just been traded in by the original owners..... they stepped up to a Winnebago Navion....

Funny, my wife and I thought we were going to get the Navion..and also looked at the Winnebago Fuse and Era...at first my wife thought that the Era was too small...

I drove all three...the Navion was a little better... although still floated like a boat compared to the Era and Roadtrek....the Fuse drove like a U-HAUL truck... horrible.. handled bad... don't know...it was on the Ford Transit chassis with an inline 5 cylinder diesel, 3.2....damn, it was supposed to be a more powerful engine than the Mercedes... but, sure didn't feel like it...

The Roadtrek was used..so the price was less, only 26,000 miles, beautiful condition, drove really well...

I was a little surprised that my very trustworthy RV shop said it needed new shocks... but, just came back from a week long trip...yes, I think they're right... taking it in tomorrow...for the scheduled work.... previously arranged.... Cost, $3,100... It's expensive, BUT, you know, it's MORE EXPENSIVE to have an accident or ruin your rig..... also, people can DIE in RV accidents..... which is why I was so careful to ensure that my tires are new and have the tire pressure monitoring system...

WOW, the new RS Adventurous like mine is more than $152,000 .. pushing $160,000... that's before taxes registration etc.... we're talking closer to $180,000...

SO, yeah, I think purchasing it used is a better way to go.... wouldn't you agree..?

By the way..I've noticed that some of the entry level offerings from Roadtrek... like the Sunlight..are pretty bare bones.. RV's... Getting one used is a easier way to get a nicer rig...

[avanti]

I definitely vote for a dedicated thread. It is nice having an easy-to-find reference when talking about a specific rig, and to be able to easily follow what folks do to "make it their own".

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

I definitely vote for a dedicated thread. It is nice having an easy-to-find reference when talking about a specific rig, and to be able to easily follow what folks do to "make it their own".

Hi Avanti,

Let me know what you find out if the cameras I purchased are really NOT HD... the guy who installs stuff like this for me... all my mobile electronics...is a total professional.... known him since 1998...I seriously don't think he would tell me something that's untrue...

He installed my Kenwood DNX 893... extra Sirius XM antenna for boosting the signal, my Zamp Solar Panel and controller....my proximity sensors, and just about everything else on our other cars...

I've referred countless friends to this guy and his biggest problem is that he literally has too many customers....if you don't make an appointment...he can't see you.. yes, he's that good... even does work for the local dealerships...on custom installs.... when it comes to cars, boats and RVs... there's nothing this guy can't do...I'm afraid that he'll be retiring in a few years... I'm going to miss his superb service and workmanship...