New? Hymer Travato 59k knockoff "Sunlight"

[markf57]

I attended the RV show in Denver today.

Camping world had a Sunlight, but it was called Van Two. It looks the same as the Van One except it has nice aluminium wheels. I couldn't see any other differences.

[Storysrvwego]

6jan18
Markf57 - Ahh! There are actually many improvements on the V2 versus the V1. I have not seen one in person but based on all of the pictures I can find online:

(1) Control Panel on the upper driver side cabinets appears to be fitted better.
(2) Passenger wall of the coach is now attached to the wall.
(3) Forward bathroom plastic wall on the driver side is now attached to the bathroom/bed wall surface. No more using double sticky back tape (or only stick back tape) to do the job where the temperature and humidity inside an RV varies dramatically.
(4) The molded ceiling of the bathroom how has a flat surface for the shower curtain track. This means the hack saw or similar tool used to cut the track to match the former ceiling surface has been eliminated and now the curtain can probably be pulled with one hand to circle you without a potential finger cut on the V1's hacked track.
(5) In all of the V2 pictures I could find of the rear of the V2, the waste pipe is not to be seen. That implies that the pipe is now securely attached. On many of the V1's, the pipe was dangling at an awkward angle. From what I saw in person, I think a bracket underneath the van on the passenger side was either left off at the factory or fell of later due to not being tightened properly.
(6) The chassis of the RV still has just a plain AM/FM unit in the dash without any steering wheel controls or Bluetooth. I believe this helps keep the price of this RV down and this is fine but of course just having Bluetooth itself adds to a safety factor while the vehicle is in motion. This is not an issue; just a point to make for a buyer that they may want to consider buying an aftermarket dash upgrade to have a stereo with bluetooth for their cell phone use while driving.

Gene

[dougbaty]

I find it odd that most RV dealers do not post prices on their new rigs. They simply list MSRP and ask you to call. CampingWorld, for the most part, does post a discount price. So I give them a thumbs up for that. Unfortunately, they don't post much else. No MSRP window sticker. Often not even all accessories included. And certainly not dealer add-ons such as shipping, dealer prep, or license.

CW does not instill confidence with dead website links (error 404) either. Click on RVSales, then HYMER down on the bottom of their sales page and you will see a brochure on Sunlight V1. Click on RVwalkthrough and you get "This video is unavailable." On the bottom of their main page you can click on MEDIA ROOM, which will bring you to 404 error. Such public and obvious errors/omissions says bad things about CW. So I give them a thumbs down for information dissemination. Disappointingly, there is no brochure for Sunlight V2.

It is difficult to shell out a lot of money for an optional purchase. RV dealers seem to go out of their way to make it more difficult.
DougB

[dougbaty]

After much obsessive on-line research, I spotted a significant improvement in the Sunlight V2. The rear windows of the V1 are simply fogged over for bathroom privacy! You can't see out the back. In the V2 they look the same from the outside but are squared off with blinds - like the Axion. And the V2 doors have some covering rather than being bare metal - again like the Axion.

I also note that V2's seem to have a GU as standard equipment, as well as a trailer hitch. Overall, much closer to Banffs in finishing details. Which is a good thing. V2s also have chrome wheels and are available with 2 LI batteries instead of only one.

As I noted previously, CW posts discount prices on their new Sunlight V2s where no-one I found posts prices on new Banffs. That gives CW a slight edge. I hope they live up to it.
DougB

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

I find it odd that most RV dealers do not post prices on their new rigs....

They want you to call, or email, or to come in, to make contact.

If you don't make contact, they don't know you are a buyer.

If you don't make contact, they can't "capture" you.


They are poker players.

[BBQ]

.

They can post the price and the equipment list.

But when you travel hours for a look-see, they don't have it.




Same old used-car salesman bait-n-switch trick.

[Storysrvwego]

9jan18
Hi dougbaty -
Nice catch on the rear window treatment on the Sunshine Van 2.

I have been following the Erwin Hymer Group (EHNG) produced, Camping World Sunshine Vx Class B entry level product since the beginning and finally see from online pictures that a nice product has evolved. I should like to see one in person of course but it appears that the V2 is a definite improvement over the unfortunate misses in Quality Control from EHNG in the V1 product.

If CW can put some additional Marketing and Support resources toward the V2, I think this will help their foray into having their own custom RV product. CW Marketing already missed the boat on having at least an online brochure posted at least at the same time V2's began appearing in dealerships. As of today (9jan1, the CW site still has only V1 information and yet I can no longer find even the limited information V1 brochure.

I believe Operating Manuals should be made available online like many other RV brands have done. EHNG did not have manuals for their own Activ for quite some time. They finally posted a manual albeit of limited content but it does have some good information to be sure. Since the 2.0 model arrived last year, a manual update to include references to it, or a separate manual has been posted online by EHNG yet.

Speaking of specifications, is it just me or would others like to ask RV manufacturers post on their the web sites and brochures what the floor to ceiling height of the bathroom/shower area. Specifications for everything such as widths, heights, ground clearance, etc. etc. could become endless but it seems to me at least this particular spec for Class B prospects would be nice to include since most manufacturers already include the general interior height in the coach.

Gene

[Ron J. Moore]

I read the Posts and they are enlightening. I realize they are trying to reach a different market, but even that market wants quality, forget the quantity of upgrades....they can add them after they have one and adjusted to the payment. Another thing I see is Jim is producing 10 a day......doesn't mean they are flying off the lots of CW; and with their way of doing business...it will be a slow go. Buyers Remorse will surely come, along with the payments, if the Line does not make sure it is fully put together the way it should be. If buyers go in an see problems, they leave and complain, but the person who owns it and cannot get repairs.....he will advertise it everywhere. Ron

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Storysrvwego

Since the 2.0 model arrived last year, a manual update to include references to it, or a separate manual has been posted online by EHNG yet.

Why would they need a new or separate manual when the only change is that the van is 1'3" or so longer and it is all added to the bed. The cabinets are naturally the same amount longer. The only new option was to replace the platform with the usual electric sofa set-up.

[Storysrvwego]

10jan18
Hello Mumkin -
The subject was primarily related to the EHNG Camping World Sunshine Vx models
so a new or used owner will wonder if a V1 manual if it exists, does not represent changes that they have no idea is different.

The added length would be included on a specification page. The operation and/or care of the new rear blinds in the V2 might have some notation. The aluminum wheels provided on the V2 might be something EHNG is providing (although seems unusual them instead of RAM) since I have yet to find any reference to these wheels being a factory standard or option, therefore wheel lug nut torque might be different per 3rd party/aftermarket wheel spec versus the standard RAM factory steel wheel provided on the V1's. Because the ceiling light dimmer control is different in the photos of the V2 versus the V1, there may be a different operating procedure or different value fuse, etc.

These are just the things seen so far in online dealer photographs. It does not mean all of the changes have been found.

If only one or a very few changes are unique to the V2, then an addendum to an existing manual can suffice. But there may be enough changes to print a new manual just for the V2. Re the V1, I did not find a manual in the three V1's I looked at and both dealers seemed at a loss to know if manuals were supplied since they could not locate any where many of the other manuals were placed upon RV arrival and dealer prep process.

Not that it matters, but at the time of that road trip, the manual for the Activ had not been posted online yet. And a quick check just now of the Carado web site for the Axion and Banff models indicates they do not even have a Support page-section at all, let alone any online documentation links on any of the other pages except for their Product Brochure. Just because something is not online does not mean these things do not exist. But it is a different marketing and support paradigm than the other prime players out there.

Logic to operate, clean, winterize, etc. will prevail for some. Prior RV experience of some sort for others. But new folks to the RV'ing world which is the focus particularly for the Sunlight V's will want a folder of manuals for the usual 3rd party products as well as the overall coach Operating Manual that glues everything together. Especially things like the operation of the battery and inverter switches and winter maintenance. As a stop gap, a manual for an Activ would be partially useful to the owner/users of a CW Vx. The information about the Cassette Toilet in the Activ will not apply and pretty sure the Grey water dump information will not directly apply either. An eisting manual for a Roadtrek model with the fantastic Volt Start feature totally confuse the CW Sunshine owner who has the same secondary engine alternator but cannot find the dash control panel for Volt Start.

It would be great to hear from anyone that owns a CW V1 or new V2 to get some direct comment on their RV's and also find out if they are provided with sufficient supporting documentation. It would still be a feather in Camping Worlds cap if they can get EHNG to generate a Portable Document Formatted (PDF) Operating Manual for CW Sunlights to post online. Owners of any brand & model of an RV that leaves theirs at home on the kitchen table and prospective buyers alike will surely like to have access to Op Manuals through the Internet.

Gene

[mumkin]

When Hymer bought Roadtrek, we had hoped that this long time issue would be fixed. In Europe Hymer provides extensive helpful manuals, while Roadtrek hasn't done so for awhile. For instance, too much of the stuff in the manual that I got with my 170 match had been changed. RT is constantly changing systems and obviously don't have an individual who concentrates on providing updated manuals.

I suspect that they intend to... eventually... have them all online.

[Storysrvwego]

13jan2018

This might be an interesting point for some prospective buyers of the EHNG Camping World Sunlight V2 and I think may also pertain to the V1 models. From online pictures, the rear windows appear to have a nice accordian type privacy shade. I do not recall what I saw on the V1 models in person nor have I gone back to look at V1 pics online but we can say that the V2 pics show a shade (and an Exit sign above it) with a window that is smaller in at least vertical size than the window on at least the Winnebago Travato's. From the outside, the glass area is the same but from the inside paneled-side, the window view is clearly smaller.

Depending on your viewpoint, having a smaller window n the rear bathroom might be preferred. Some might not even want windows here except when the shades on every window are open, the max daylight available inside these vans potentially brighten our mood. Or what and how long we can see things inside before it gets dark outside. So some Class B RV's have an advantage of more and/or larger side and rear windows along with the size, type and location of ceiling vents used for maximizing daylight inside.

Again that may be important to some. Others might want few if any windows for privacy or whatever. Just thought I might point out that the difference I just noticed while looking at currently available online pics. The fact that these Sunlight and other models on the market have factory included shades provided back there instead of just relying on the dark exterior glass and shower curtain is a nice touch.

Gene

[Saldar]

Originally Posted by Storysrvwego

13jan2018
Depending on your viewpoint, having a smaller window n the rear bathroom might be preferred.
Gene

I'm sure enough to count on it myself , that the tinting of the windows in the Travato back bathroom provides complete blockage from the outside during the day. It's a bit unsettling because you can see out quite well.

I haven't checked the visibility with the light on at night -- we have small magnetic curtains at night. During the day they fold in half and cover the outside halves of the windows. When they are half open, you can still see out the back windows when driving -- at least through the marginal window area not blocked by the cabinet and bath doors. I had fun with magnet polarity figuring out how to sew the curtains so they wouldn't resist folding.

[VocalVirgo]

Originally Posted by ChrisFix

The drain pipe in the video review from VocalVirgo is installed incorrectly or something happened to it...
Look carefully and you'll see that it is hanging lower on the passenger side than the drivers side (discharge side)...which is not how it is on any other Van One that I've seen...
So while the design doesn't have great clearance, what you're seeing in the video doesn't represent how it actually is.
See the photo - the pipe is tucked up much higher on the passenger side than the unit in the video.
My guess is in practical use it isn't going to be an issue.

Hi. I'm the guy who put up the videos on the Van One. The pipe on the bottom of both vans I reviewed in both of the videos had the same weird hanging pipe. I thought it was odd, so I went back and looked at the first van I reviewed, and it was indeed the same.
I was told by Hymer that they retrofitted that hanging pipe for all stock waiting to be sold sitting at Camping World locations AND that they were offering all owners of the van the upgrade. I was also told that the 2018 models have a different black tank design/placement altogether. They informed me that the spare tire was removed from underneath the rear of the vans to make more room for the tank and thus giving the exhaust pipes (and the tank itself) more ground clearance. But still, the van is so poorly made. I mean, I bought a ProMaster and BUILT my own camper because the quality of this, the cheapest of all Class B's was so bad. Lastly, Hymer said that they only allocate 4 hours for each van to be built (!!) and that's it. It's too bad because if the guys building them over at the RoadTrek facility would be given more time to build these, the quality wouldn't be nearly as bad. It wasn't just the black tank/exhaust. It was practically EVERYTHING that was done so cheaply and poorly. Sad. I would have bought it had it been put together better.
You can see how badly trim, panels and bathroom (OMG, the bathroom) were in the videos. See for yourselves, links below.

https://youtu.be/-WzUs5IqtEo

and

https://youtu.be/KsEkkJ8qY08

[mumkin]

Rather than look at the old version, better to go to a dealer than handles Carado and look at the Banff. It is significantly better than those original van1 units like in your video which were nothing if not ghastly.

[Storysrvwego]

05feb18 -
I completely agree with Mumkin re take a look at the new to USA dealers, Banff units. I suspect and hope the new Sunlight V2's and the Carado Axions have been provided with similar improvements from bow to stern in the coaches Hymer speed assembles.

Speaking about a few of the changes in the new Carado's; I still am perplexed why their online site does not promote features very well. And still does not keep in sync, other information in a Support section including current Owner manual PDF for Axion, let alone the Banff. I know I harp on this but go to the WB site, locate and download the 128 page 2018 Travato 59K with color images here and there for example. You get the idea that WB understands the North American market better than EHNG. it may largely be due to more cash flow that is re-invested into areas that the NA side of EHNG simply cannot do on their own yet.

But Rev B of the EHGNA RV models DEFINITELY show improvements, including the shower track that is now a flat track attached to a flat surfaced area on a new ceiling panel. The forward driver side bathroom wall is sticking to the wall panel now, at least for now. I think I saw a few screws that might be helping this too.

I saw no issues with the still windowless, passenger wall warping outward either. And while I do not recall the Carado's having the same issue with their waste pipe hangers as did the Sunlight V1; all three of the V1's I saw that weekend had the same dropped down waste pipe. When I crawled underneath, it appeared to me that these V1's were missing a bracket to hold the right side of this pipe up in a proper position for correct gravity flow over to the driver side outlet.

The ludicrous bathroom privacy door I now refer to as the Mr Ed door (watch the old TV show) has been improved. I do not call it the perfect solution but given the entry level Class B price point it is a good solution. The lower cabinet piano hinged door for the lower half of the Mr Ed door is gone. The upper piano hinged door unfortunately still exists but it is now fairly quick operation to hinge it-out into privacy position. Then you pull the new accordian door across and the bathroom is now a relatively private room in less than a minute. The full on Mr Ed door, properly positioned with previous experience and latched into place would have you soiling your clothes before you got it all setup. If it was your first try at making it all work together, you would have also been very annoyed (I can think of stronger wording to put here...) your sales person sold this contraption with a straight face, and soiled your clothes too.

The WB Travato 59K ass an alternative rear bath solution costs a whole lot more but it works! WB put in double walls on both sides of the coach whioch are spaced to contain what is essentially a pair of pocket doors found in some stick built apartments and homes. True, the door can be bumped off the track by looky-loos, probably with over active kids that push or yank on them in the wrong place. If the WB doors are somewhat gently pushed or pulledl in the right spots, I think they should work the life of the RV. I mean after all, we are talking about a mere $108,000 MSRP Class B here, made for us poor folks that want an RV built to the highest standards but have to go cheap. If you consider $108k which is only a typically inflated MSRP number, cheap. (insert gasp, cough).

For EHNG to implement the WB bathroom door solution would cost a lot more with the dual pocket door walls and door assembly. Perhaps a more significant issue is that this solution takes up w precious asdditonal inches of space for a pocket door wall in these 19'-6" RV's versus the slightly higher cost 3500EXT ProMaster used with the also higher priced coach of the Travato 59K built into, over and under that chassis-van. Which comes standard with steering wheel controls and large LCD multi-function system in the dash and integrated backup camera by the way. Choices for lifestyle and budget.

While my wife and I will examine the Banff first hand this coming week (if it arrives), we are presently planning to buy another brand this Spring/Summer that minimally is a full $10k more. And there is that much difference in quality and features in the 1 foot longer RV we intend to buy. However, the Banff is definitely worth our time to look at. Unfortunately they do not have the VoltStart feature that some RoadTrek and the EHNG Activ 1.0 and 2.0 offer. I do not think it is something one can retrofit after the fact, at least not easily, even if buying this outside of your financed loan with a big lump of cash or credit card expenditure to try to acquire & retrofit this proprietary feature, or reverse engineer it was on the table.

The other RV we intend to purchase has a fossil fueled, noisy and maintenance required generator. We expect for our type of travel that it will see little use but we still had to pay for it and still have to keep the carburetor clean enough to stumble the gas engine into running. These generators are way ess expensive than an underhood 2nd, 280 amp alternator, matching charger/inverter for EcoStart, lithium battery, let alone add in tht Voltstart option on those RV models that offer it. It thus makes sense to continue to see the generator on many RV's until such time that someone figures out how to bring the price points of the totally simpler additional alternator w/electronics solution nearer to the traditional generator price.

Nonetheless the slightly stripped ProMaster and lower cost coach configuration of the 1 foot shorter, 3 windowed and lower priced Banff with shall we say, revision B fixes to production issues gets our attention enough to check it out. $400-ish to add Froli bed system to twin beds for air/moisture control and comfort. $120-ish for a pair of tilt up head rests. $350-ish to toss the basic AM/FM in the dash for a backup camera capable unit + cost of backup camera added back into the stripped ProMaster (will confirm that this week) and garage sale the Suburban heater with a $1,000+ conversion to a Truma Combi. Not saying we would do all of this to a new Banff; just rolling these ideas around in our head to see if we might entertain some of this and perhaps more over time. We know we would add the Froli if for no other reason than to improve the sleeping comfort between hard surface plywood and thin mattress. Call it "Home Improvements"... (grin)

I am told a Banff will arrive at our local dealer possibly this week. It is a candidate for our purchase we will definitely look at before we commit to the other RV we are otherwise intending to purchase this Spring/Summer as noted above, within our budgeted number.

[dougbaty]

The Axion kitchen layout is much better than the Banff/Sunlight twins, particularly wrt the location of the stove. I wonder if the Hymer designers have ever camped in their creations.(?) A pan on the Banff stove is likely to spill on the couch since there is no apron - a pan handle will overhang the couch. The only counter space is on the opposite side of the coach! This is an accident waiting to happen.

The Axion kitchen is on the opposite side from its couch AND it includes pull out/flip up counter space. Lots of counter space and no seating next to the stove. Good layout on an even shorter coach.

Since C.W. is the only dealer posting discount prices on new vehicles, I find their $67K price (Oakwood GA) on a new Sunlight V2 compelling. [Includes UHG + 400Lithiums + 200solar + hitch + chromewheels]. Since all vehicles under 10,000 pounds sold after April 2018 must have a backup camera, all I have to do is wait a bit to buy a new "inexpensive" 20 foot RV.

Unfortunately, the Sunlight V2 kitchen still has the same very poor arrangement. So I have been wondering how hard it would be to move the kitchen island (complete with stove, sink, and fridge) to the passenger side.? That way it would be alongside its matching countertop. Naturally this will require shortening the couch on the passenger side, which should be easy since there is nothing underneath it. Being only 5'6" tall I don't need 2 long couches.

DougB

[Storysrvwego]

5feb18 -
Dougb,
I doubt many would think of the Banff, Sunlight, Travato, and several others that have similar layout as poor. I would say that the Axion may have a preference for those that travel by themselves. Or a couple that does not mind if the kitchen is not accessible if they use the full bed layout. The refrigerator on the end would be handy from the outdoors. I'm not so sure it would be as desired to retrieve things from around the corner when the van is closed up and especially if the full bed is setup and you or your partner has to climb out over the other person a bit to get to the refer. A trip to the rear bathroom in all of these can be interesting at oh dark 30 again with a companion but if just one person using one of the twin beds or the single bed in the Axion, that issue goes away.

I know if I were single, the Axion layout makes more sense for me. But for me and my wife, it was axed way before we even got to the short list. They are all what I call slab side vans that have more compromises than Class C and certainly Class A's but the benefits for one or two people traveling and/or camping is outstanding. I suppose two adults and two kids may work for some people but I know I would go crazy beyond two plus all the stuff that everyone would want to take along. Anyhow, that is why we have a choice of side bathrooms with cramped aisles and less interior daylight, or bathrooms that knock down for cost and space reasons or rear baths that tend to favor taller folks. Or the side-rear bath which typically has more overall room and then a bed beside it of about double-size. The latter configs I have seen places the AC unit right above the elevated bed and that means the noise and moving air is kind of in your face. Axion and twin side beds on the other hand have the AC center isle and these beds are fixed at about 20-something inches above the floor so the noise may still be there but the direct air flow could be shuttered down the center aisle a bit in these floorplans. All kinds of things to consider for different folks and travel type but I am pretty sure we all have to compromise on something to get other things we believe or know we have to have in the layout. Good luck on your choice. Given what you have indicated, it does sound like the Axion is the right one for your needs.