Very high mileage on the odometer

[markopolo]

Ok, these are not B vans but maybe we can bring the discussion around to end up being about Class B vans. I saw two cars on display outside a transportation company in St. Andrews, NB. Both had probably been used as limousines or something similar. Both were in great condition.







The Caprice Classic had 580,000km ---- 360,000 miles.
The Buick Roadmaster had 620,000km --- 385,000 miles.

Maintenance is the key getting that mileage I'm sure.
Our commercial based van chassis Class B's should be able to equal or better that - what do you think?

[wabbit]

I recall reading once that vehicle longevity is tied to use. The article said that vehicles are "happier" if they are driven often and don't fare well if they sit too long between use. Having said that, it would be interesting to compare the relative longevity between cabs and limos.

The B owners I know take very good care of their vehicles, so I would expect decent longevity. I put a lot of miles on both my previous B and camper vans and sold both in great working condition (although I do have one horror story out of the bunch).

[booster]

I think I tend to be on the contrary side of this one. Our vans are sold as "commercial" vehicles, but the design parameters are probably not as robust as you might expect. Some things definitely do show up as more robust than passenger vehicles, like a cast iron block on the Express 6.0 engine, but the question is whether that relates to more miles of reliable use than a passenger vehicle. The van engine works harder, so do you just break even? Maybe, maybe not. The Sprinters may be the exception to this, as they are real live, long life, vehicles, but can still cost mucho to get to that high life, because of high maintenance and repair costs.

When you talk about a class B, you have a couple of things happening that are different that what the van was designed for. No designer would have his design life based on the van being at maximum load nearly 100% of the time. A 3500 Express weighs a bit over 5K lbs, IIRC, but a Roadtrek going down the road is very likely at, or above the 9600# max. The fact that they get hot, both trans and water, in the mountains or in traffic, tells you that they weren't designed to do that much work on a regular basis. Same is true with the brakes.

On the flip side, the van was likely designed for tradesman, delivery, passenger service. This would imply lots of starts and stops, in town etc, which shorten life, and is probably similar to what passenger vehicles see. The fact that a class B is mostly highway gives it a big edge in this case. If a passenger car is only driven, at reasonable speeds, on the highway, 90% of the time, my bet is that most would easily go to 300K.

My guess is that with good maintenance and care not to abuse (overheat etc) a class b van will have similar life compared to a passenger car, it surely won't see the life of true commercial vehicles (semi etc) which are designed to go 1 million miles. I think the easier highway miles balance out the running at max load to a large degree.

Based on the above-what would I expect of a current production, non diesel class B that is well cared for?

About 150K miles relatively trouble free, unless the yearly mileage is very low.

After 150K, probable engine and/or transmission failures by 250K miles.

Very low probability of going 300K reliably.

This is similar to what I would expect from my drivers (small cars in our case).

Based on what trades guys I know say, I would expect a Ford to be a bit better reliability-wise than a Chevy, but not huge. I would expect the Chevy to be much easier to drive and more comfortable. Chevy usually gets a bit better mileage also.

There are lots of levels of vehicles that are sold as "commercial" vehicles, but they aren't all designed to the same durability standards.

My opinion----take good care of your B, and count on similar life and reliability as you would from a good passenger car. If you think that is going to go 300K+ because it is a "commercial" vehicle, I think you will be disappointed.

[RSchleder]

I think they are large, uncollectable , ugly old cars and have no idea why anyone would be interested in owning either of them ( just one car guys opinion). Now, to answer your question--there is no doubt in my mind that my 2012 Sprinter based ERA will go at least 500K miles if properly maintained and well taken care of, not that I'll ever drive it that much!!!

[markopolo]

There are probably many stories to be told from the combined 745,000 miles of travel in those two vehicles.
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Good points booster.

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It cost me $ 0.20 per kilometer for my last 500 km. At that rate, 500,000 kms would cost $100,000.00 in fuel alone........

[booster]

One very good way to get a feel for how long various vehicles last is to watch the Want Ads, Craigslist, E-bay, etc and see how many miles are on what is being sold. Very often, you will find a pretty consistent "cutoff" of the top amount of miles for a particular vehicle. Most likely, this is the point where they start to cost more to keep than folks are comfortable putting into them, which is why, I think, most folks sell high mileage stuff. The value, and asking price, also take a huge dive around that mileage. I have been amazed how fast the value of cars like BMW and Audi plummet when the get to the 180K mile range, putting them about the same as more mundane vehicles.

In my watching of class B's, I rarely have seen any over 200K miles, and I don't ever recall one over 300K. Same is true for consumer used and conversion vans. Many of the tradesman's vans are considerably less than that, as they haul heavy and short trips. The longest life seems to be the passenger shuttles, which often show up over 200K, for sale. Of course many of them are not very old, and we know that putting on miles quickly generally allow for many more trouble free miles.

[peteco]

Here's my view of my 2006 Roadtrek 210P, now at 50,000 miles. If, Lord willing, I am able to travel in my RT into my 80's (I'm 56), that's ~25 more years. If I put 10-12,000 miles per year on it, that will put me at 300-350,000 miles. I anticipate having to replace much of the running gear/suspension etc. over that timeframe: transmission, motor, springs, bushings, brake system... Also most of the major systems in the RT may need replacing: fridge, furnace, water heater...

Because so much cost is in the conversion (the cabinets, seats/beds, bathroom/kitchen, etc) it seems to make sense to continue to fix things as needed. Also, I have put many mods and fixes myself into the vehicle, and I don't want to have to do that again on a new vehicle.

So then the question is: will the frame and major structure of the vehicle hold up? If so, then I don't see why the vehicle won't be useable indefinitely.

Thoughts?

[Davydd]

I think Booster's series of posts analyses it pretty well. My experience is I have had a few cars that I kept well maintained and had no problems with the whole time but started falling apart in many ways especially annoying ways at about the 180,000 mile mark.

In theory diesels are suppose to last "forever" but would the rest of the vehicle? It would take another 10 years to know if it were true with MB Sprinters as I doubt there is any Sprinter Bs on the road approaching 180,000 miles yet. Regardless, I desire a reliable vehicle for taking extended trips far from home. With those cars we had with the high mileage we eventually relegated them to secondary around town and commuter use and wouldn't desire take even a three hour drive from Minneapolis to La Crosse to visit family.

Cars do last longer today than they used to. It use to be cars were starting to age excessively at the 50,000 mile mark and I think it is now closer to 100,000.

[wabbit]

Here's yet another way to look at it. If you buy a new car, what financing options do they give you? Most will be about a 3 year term. If you buy that new class B, they offer 10 and 15 year financing options. Bankers tend to be very practical. Would they offer such terms if they didn't expect the rig to last that long?

[booster]

I know lots of folks on 5 and 6 year auto loans, and the motorhomes get lots less miles/year in general. Plus, if you have good credit, they don't care if it lasts that long or not, you will continue to pay, rather than have a default.

[Davydd]

A B is no different than a car for life expectancy or depreciation, IMO. They have the same engines, chassis and materials. I don't think banks offer loans that long with the expectation the B will last. Whether the B lasts or not the borrower is still on the hook for the loan.

[stanw909]

If a bank were to loan money depending on longevity of the vehicle then how many cars would be excluded? Can I get a longer loan on a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry because their longevity on average is proven to be very good ?

[wabbit]

Okay, I guess I didn't think though the bank conjecture.

[Mike]

"Maintenance is the key getting that mileage I'm sure.
Our commercial based van chassis Class B's should be able to equal or better that - what do you think?"

I think "yes".
On both counts, because they go together naturally to increase vehicular longevity.

[Davydd]

Proper maintenance is definitely important but I also think just general repetitive wear and tear over time and simple material fatigue is eventually going to take its toll. That may be why my near religious and perfect maintenance never got me beyond 180,000 miles.

Longevity also takes a tremendous amount of rebuilding. I wonder how much original is in those Glacier National Park 1930's red Jammer coaches. I know they spend a tremendous amount of money keeping them running for historic and image purposes.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Proper maintenance is definitely important but I also think just general repetitive wear and tear over time and simple material fatigue is eventually going to take its toll. That may be why my near religious and perfect maintenance never got me beyond 180,000 miles.

Longevity also takes a tremendous amount of rebuilding. I wonder how much original is in those Glacier National Park 1930's red Jammer coaches. I know they spend a tremendous amount of money keeping them running for historic and image purposes.

Similar issue with the Wisconsin Dells amphibious ducks. They are now sporting recycled school bus diesel engines, but they need to keep them running, one way or another.

[Mike]

Replacing parts over time is just another facet of maintenance, imo. Everything on a vehicle wears out, but at different rates. You would expect to replace numerous smaller parts like shoes, pads, and rotors, belts, hoses, plugs, etc., before getting into larger ones, like drive train and body/chassis structures.