Pls. help me chose a surge supressor !

[Deano]

Q: Should a Hardwired EMS be installed before or after the transfer switch?

A: A hardwired EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch. The reason for this is most RV generators already have built-in voltage and frequency protection. If the EMS is installed after the transfer switch, this leaves the transfer switch vulnerable to power problems.

I could not find any mention of any built in protection on the Onan Micro Lite 2800 generator as used in my RT. That is why I wired the way I did.
I'd rather repair or replace a transfer switch than an A/C compressor or other more expensive component.

[booster]

They seem to have changed their story a bit over the years. When I looked at the location of the power protectors information a decade ago, they did say put it before the transfer switch in most places.


The reason for putting it before the transfer switch was totally different, however, as it was said to be a better place because if the protector got fried by bad shore power, you could still get AC power to the van from the generator. This certainly makes sense, although they may have figured out that is wasn't a good sales tactic to recommend locating it a certain way because it may fail.

[Deano]

The Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C I chose has a switch on the remote display module to bypass the EMS if it fails and you want to risk using the power source anyway.

[markopolo]

GeorgeRa - On your Leviton 51110 installation did you connect both black wires to to line (hot) in the RV or did you just connect one black wire like Avanti did keeping the other as a spare?

With the protection listed as L-N, L-G, N-G (no L-L noted) it does look like it is two separate 120V surge protection devices. The device works as long as the breaker is not tripped so it looks like using two breakers in a 120V installation would still offer full surge protection even if one breaker trips.


Edit: I now see L-L noted on the product itself. I didn't see it on the package.

[GeorgeRa]

I connected one, but later checked with manufacturer and was told that 2 can be connected doubling surge capacity. I never went back so I still have just one connected.

[markopolo]

Thanks for the info George. The Leviton 51110-SRG was delivered yesterday & I went ahead & installed it today using both lines so 3400 Joules surge protection X 2. Both lights on, no magic smoke escaped, cool to the touch. I like that it is specifically UL Listed 1449 3rd Edition.

We had a good surge & other protection related technical discussion here just over 5 years ago. I bought a Siemens QSA1515SPD for the house back then & was totally surprised to see it still on a shelf - I had forgotten to install it! Time just zips by. I installed that at the house (not RV) panel earlier this week.

The RV that I installed the Leviton 51110-SRG in already has high & low frequency, high and low voltage, and over current protections through the Samlex EVO inverter/charger. Optionally, if I plug in a portable Surge Guard device at the RV park power pedestal then there is another 510 Joules of power surge protection there as well as GFCI. Power is disconnected in 25/1000ths of a second if a ground fault condition occurs. Notification of reversed hot & neutral or reversed hot & ground can be had using a $10 outlet tester.

Question for the higher end inverter/charger users: (those inverter/chargers with high & low frequency, high and low voltage, and over current protection)

How does the high end inverter/charger react to open neutral, open hot & hot / ground reversed? I'm wondering if those create an out of spec voltage situation that would automatically disconnect shore power.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Question for the higher end inverter/charger users: (those inverter/chargers with high & low frequency, high and low voltage, and over current protection)

How does the high end inverter/charger react to open neutral, open hot & hot / ground reversed? I'm wondering if those create an out of spec voltage situation that would automatically disconnect shore power.

The good ones check for all those things.

You made the correct choice. Many people waste hundreds of dollars buying protection that they already have.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

The good ones check for all those things.

You made the correct choice. Many people waste hundreds of dollars buying protection that they already have.

When a dedicated surge protector detects a fault and won't pass suds it tells you why. These same features may be in the converter which accomplishes the same thing but how does it communicate what fault you are dealing with?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

When a dedicated surge protector detects a fault and won't pass suds it tells you why. These same features may be in the converter which accomplishes the same thing but how does it communicate what fault you are dealing with?

On its remote display/control panel, which will also alarm.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

On its remote display/control panel, which will also alarm.

Not every converter has a remote display. For example, Roadtrek converters have a remote inverter display with an inverter on/off and some LEDs that indicate whether the converter or inverter is on or off, but if the converter won't come on, the LED tells the story but not the nature of the fault. They use the Powerstar which actually has a display that can be removed and remoted but Roadtrek never implemented it. Come to think of it may be that no protection is incorporated for voltage/polarity protection and the only alarm it providesis a smoke alarm. I'll have to dig into that.

[GeorgeRa]

My van has full protection for polarity from BlueSea main panel CB, and for surges from Leviton surge protector.

I split my main electrical panel to 3 sections:

1. DC only
2. AC for shore AC and inverter passthrough (limited to 20A) (AC outlets, Microwave, Water heater).
3. AC for shore AC (Inverter/charger, Stove, AC fridge, optional AC)

Only the second section #2 has inverter’s built in protection.

The key reason for me to split AC CB panel to 2 was the experience from my previous inverter installation having one panel only and occasional mistakes.

Back to the main subject, Inverter could provide full protection but is limited to passthrough current limit, such as 20A in my case, and actual design.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Thanks to everyone for the useful info to my initial query.

In the end, I just ordered a Progressive Industries SSP-30XL surge protector ($146CAN) from Amazon. Should arrive today, which is good timing, as we are supposed to pick up our 2019 PW from the dealer on Thursday!

I liked the idea of the Leviton all house unit, and thought about buying one and putting it in a weatherproof box as a portable unit, but the cost came out about the same for what I would need to buy - although I understand that would give two higher rated surge protectors for the price of one.

Once we get the van and I have a better idea how much space there is and how accessible the wiring is, I will look at feasibility of a hardwired installation of the Leviton unit - if/when the Progressive one I just bought ever does its job and becomes toast!

Brian.

[markopolo]

Just a note: The Leviton unit referred to in this topic is really only suitable for installation very near the AC electrical panel. The Leviton unit itself requires 20A max breaker protection. If putting it a weatherproof box outside you'd also have to put an AC fuse or circuit breaker with it thus adding to cost.

There are other whole house type SPD's that allow installation on up to 60A protected lines so they'd be better candidates for away from the panel and closer to the pedestal DIY surge devices.

For portable SPD theft prevention ideas: I happened to have two no longer needed padlocks and some chain on hand that should make for an effective theft deterrent for my portable SP device.


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I've also seen photos of two regular size padlocks (like mine) and one really long padlock (in place of the chain) used to secure a portable SPD.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Just curious - when you install something such as the Leviton surge protector - or any other make I suppose - how are these things wired?

Are they simply wired in parallel with the electrical load of your RV, or do they go in series such that all current passes through the device on its way the RV?

Not planning to install one at this time, just wondering! I imagine the Leviton comes with wiring details - although presumably for a 220v application.

Brian.

[markopolo]

The Leviton surge protection is wired in parallel. I think many SPD's would sit in parallel as most are MOVs placed across L-N, L-G, N-G etc.

Here's a good example of what surge protection would look like inside a plug: Make-Your-Own Surge Protector - Fiberglass RV


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