Inexpensive way to stay warm while asleep this Winter ...

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by Davydd

This is all for an electric sleeping pad? They are good for incontinence (bed wetting) since they are rubberize protected and impervious. You might want to include that.

Davydd,

Bed wetting is no problem.

I had a group of NASA Scientists & Mechanical Engineers designed my unit to also act a collection device that is malleable to both exit & entry from the Earth's Atmosphere - its why we removed the keys from the space station doors for risk of puncture

[Theputnams515]

Anyone put a Webasto or propex in their B?

Thinking of adding one possibly for a more efficient furnace system.

Anyone put one in a Roadtrek?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Theputnams515

Anyone put a Webasto or propex in their B?

Thinking of adding one possibly for a more efficient furnace system.

Anyone put one in a Roadtrek?

I don't have a Roadtrek, but I've wanted to put in a diesel heater that taps the main tank.

I banged my head on the desk the day I read IGer andyandthevan describe how, in sub-zero weather in the snow, he was maintaining a 70 degree internal temp in his very-basic T1N Sprinter for the whopping cost of 0.3 gallons of diesel per night.

Why, why, why would anyone put in a propane furnace? Here we all have this massive fuel reservoir already with us, which could heat our vans extravagantly for a MONTH if necessary without getting into draw-down peril, and what are we doing?? Relying on teeny weenie undermount propane tanks. It's an illogical carry-over from the rest of the RV industry, for which liquid fuel heating would not be as appropriate.

There are two things that have caused me to delay taking on that conversion:

(1) Right now, husband and I are not doing enough cold-weather camping to justify it as a short-term priority.

(2) I have heard that they are noisy, like having a small jet engine installed in your van. I have not confirmed this, nor have I seen dBA measurements. But I need to investigate it more fully.

If you want a good general go-by, check out ourkaravan on YouTube. He's got several vids, one of which is titled "Espar D2 Diesel Heater Install in a Mercedes Sprinter Camper Van".

[MsNomer]

MrNomer installed the Webasto gasser in our PM gasser February 2017. It has been used a lot with no issues. It is loud, but we have come to like the sound.

An added benefit: With our installation, we can draw in cold air, run the warmed air across our drying towels, then exhaust through the MaxAir. Towels dry in just a few minutes.

There are now numerous Chinese clones selling on Amazon, eBay for $1-200. Installation may be more of a challenge because of lack of instructions/support, but I’ve seen no report of people having problems with them.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

This is a No-Brainer.

https://electrowarmth.com/

Some of you probably already have one.

The 12v mattress is pad sold on this site (and Amazon) is without competition the best RV product I have bought. I encountered it on a trucker site back in 2011. It will keep you toasty warm all night using almost NO power because it is so efficient. I will warm the van with the heater and turn the mattress pad on high (settings 1-7) as I get ready for bed. (and also get stuff ready to leave in the morning). Once I get into bed, the furnace is off and the mattress pad is turned down below the number one on the settings and it will keep me toasty all night even when it is down in the 20s... even with our usual crappy insulation.

I agree that it is a no-brainer... especially as I have now been using this same mattress pad for going on 10 years. And I have stuck to only having 2 AGMs, not lithiums.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents though the discussion has rather moved on to heating systems.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

MrNomer installed the Webasto gasser in our PM gasser February 2017. It has been used a lot with no issues. It is loud, but we have come to like the sound.

An added benefit: With our installation, we can draw in cold air, run the warmed air across our drying towels, then exhaust through the MaxAir. Towels dry in just a few minutes.

There are now numerous Chinese clones selling on Amazon, eBay for $1-200. Installation may be more of a challenge because of lack of instructions/support, but I’ve seen no report of people having problems with them.

Would you put one of the knock offs in your van if this was the idea?

Is there that much to them that choosing a knock off can be a hazard?

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I don't have a Roadtrek, but I've wanted to put in a diesel heater that taps the main tank.

I banged my head on the desk the day I read IGer andyandthevan describe how, in sub-zero weather in the snow, he was maintaining a 70 degree internal temp in his very-basic T1N Sprinter for the whopping cost of 0.3 gallons of diesel per night.

Why, why, why would anyone put in a propane furnace? Here we all have this massive fuel reservoir already with us, which could heat our vans extravagantly for a MONTH if necessary without getting into draw-down peril, and what are we doing?? Relying on teeny weenie undermount propane tanks. It's an illogical carry-over from the rest of the RV industry, for which liquid fuel heating would not be as appropriate.

There are two things that have caused me to delay taking on that conversion:

(1) Right now, husband and I are not doing enough cold-weather camping to justify it as a short-term priority.

(2) I have heard that they are noisy, like having a small jet engine installed in your van. I have not confirmed this, nor have I seen dBA measurements. But I need to investigate it more fully.

If you want a good general go-by, check out ourkaravan on YouTube. He's got several vids, one of which is titled "Espar D2 Diesel Heater Install in a Mercedes Sprinter Camper Van".

This certainly looks like a good investment if in that kind of cold water & for heating the cab air.

A couple of posters here did suggest they use them with good result.

A lot of us don't have the diesel option & it appears a lot of platforms are going to Gas.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

A lot of us don't have the diesel option & it appears a lot of platforms are going to Gas.

Gas versions of most of these heaters are available.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Is there that much to them that choosing a knock off can be a hazard?

This is a question worth asking these days, given the increasingly serious counterfeiting problems in the electronics industry.

However, with 120VAC products, you can check for UL approval (or equivalent). If it is there and not itself counterfeit, you can pretty much count on it being safe.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by mumkin

The 12v mattress is pad sold on this site (and Amazon) is without competition the best RV product I have bought. I encountered it on a trucker site back in 2011. It will keep you toasty warm all night using almost NO power because it is so efficient. I will warm the van with the heater and turn the mattress pad on high (settings 1-7) as I get ready for bed. (and also get stuff ready to leave in the morning). Once I get into bed, the furnace is off and the mattress pad is turned down below the number one on the settings and it will keep me toasty all night even when it is down in the 20s... even with our usual crappy insulation.

I agree that it is a no-brainer... especially as I have now been using this same mattress pad for going on 10 years. And I have stuck to only having 2 AGMs, not lithiums.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents though the discussion has rather moved on to heating systems.

Your discussion is more than timely & on point!

Thank You for your contribution.

Thus far I already received 3 other messages from Members that didn't want to participate that they too, have used Electrowarmth for years with great success.

Which model to you use,* the Bunk Warmer?

*because its ONLY the Bunkwarmer UPON START UP that has the 6.2amp draw & then its 50% of MAXIMUM, NOT 6.2amps.

Or one of the others & if so, which one?

How many years?

(In 2007 they used to have such a funky website but then again, they have been doing this since 1939)

As I mentioned, I never ran down my single Optima (now a low quality battery since the move to Johnson Controls), in a camper van - it just worked & worked & worked.

Now that I understand electrical demands better, I could never see it running down two Lifeline AGMs dedicated to just the house.

It really is a No Brainer when its relatively unimportant how cold the air is in the van (respiration** has a partial effect), and you are being warmed internally, within your bedding, from below & into the fabric .

**not talking about the Artic bus from INTO THE WILD

And from a health standpoint it is important to remove any humidity/dampness in your bedding that this does perfectly.

I was first a Farmer & Professional Deer Culler/Hunter in NZ, then a Soldier & a Physiologist, and even I, as I fade into the distance, just love turning that unit on***, and warming the joints before I get my carcass out of bed.

***I just ordered the Bunkwarmer
***I remember that is what I used to do anyway
***if you have the full sized mattress type, I might choose that instead, after all I now have enough DC power to run a small city

[avanti]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I have heard that they are noisy, like having a small jet engine installed in your van. I have not confirmed this, nor have I seen dBA measurements. But I need to investigate it more fully.

Well, there is noise and there is noise. I only have direct experience with the Espar D5. Yes, some people consider them noisy. But it isn't even on the same planet as, say, an Onan. The quality of the sound is also different. More of a high-speed whirring rather than a low rumble. Many people say they sound like a jet engine. Even this sound is mostly at startup for maybe 30 seconds. It then settles down to be much quieter, especially when it switches to low speed. During normal operation, I think the noise is comparable to the exhaust of a propane water heater. The noise is mostly outside. I often am not certain whether it is running or not from inside the van, unless the environment is very quiet. Finally, you can get mufflers for both the exhaust and the intake. They help a lot. Most people get the former but the latter (which also helps quite a bit) is often neglected.

As others have stated, I think twice before using if I am camping next to a tent camper (as I also did when I had a propane water heater). Otherwise, I consider it a non-issue.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by avanti

Gas versions of most of these heaters are available.

1. Are they are efficient 0.3 gallon as the Diesel?

2. Who, makes the very best product & what is the retail price versus a counterfeit/cheap knock off?

3. I use $1200-800 Schuberth Helmets when I ride my motorcycle but the colours are limited & rare - so when I found this Schuberth in the exact colour of my bike for $187, I tagged it & sent it to the USA Schubert HQs to which they said "Its a knock off, there are more than double the knock off sales of our product alone than there is genuine Schuberth Factory products worldwide, its like playing whack a mole ..."

--------------------

When we talk about counterfeits, a big concern immediately iI recognize is the use of Essential Oils which when intelligently sourced & used, can have a positive effect on one's health even if it is just one's mood.

2. I use www.aromis.co Organic* Essential Oils in my practice & from two other, vetted USA suppliers who I have known for over 30 years.

One other is from Joanne at www.lavenderoil.com.

These are practically One Owner Concerns & a couple of Indians/Help.

In 1989 before Essential Oils became the vogue recently, 96% of all Essential Oils sold in the USA were made in overseas factories using Petrochemicals.

That's right, when people are looking to the health benefits of these Pils to improve their health they are instead, snorting Petrochemicals & slowly degrading thier Immune Systems & those of their loved ones whether they have four legs or two.

Especially those with four legs.

*one of only three Essential Oil providers that have truly certified, organically produced, harvested & rendered product.

Now over 99.8% of all Essential Oils imported into the use are made almost entirely of Petrochemicals.

Huge corporations like Young Living, Doterra & everyone else set up background shel companies & organizations that they bankroll to certify them as Organic when they are nothing more than Petrochemicals.

Petrochemicals, which in minute amounts being diffused through the air & onto & into the first & second defense systems of your immune system. Cumulatively, the damage is done although there has already been a few cases published recently where pets were near death or never recovered from heavy use in a person's home over a few hours.

--------------------

Back to OP's original need to keep warm, while sleeping in cold temperatures, with a limited Battery Bank.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, there is noise and there is noise. I only have direct experience with the Espar D5. Yes, some people consider them noisy. But it isn't even on the same planet as, say, an Onan. The quality of the sound is also different. More of a high-speed whirring rather than a low rumble.

And when you go to sleep, the majority of us are unconscious - the noise is inconsequential.

These electric blankets are silent (maybe there was a slight click years ago), but even if they made a noise like that of the heaters described, its inconsequential.

Most of us are over 50 now, what kept us awake at 25 hasn't bothered us since we were 40 & still above ground.

But the Electrowarmth are silent.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

1. Are they are efficient 0.3 gallon as the Diesel?

Dunno. But, the petrol versions are mechanically virtually identical to the diesel versions, so probably. Of course, there is a bit less energy in gasoline than in diesel.

2. Who, makes the very best product & what is the retail price versus a counterfeit/cheap knock off?

These products came out of Germany. The market leaders are Eberspacher and Webasto. Patents have expired, so Chinese and Russian companies have been producing much cheaper clones. The jury is still out on their quality and safety.

[Theputnams515]

I am trying to find a way to effectively put this in our van.

It was brought to my attention during a fuel pump install that our tank and pump configuration is Roadtrek spec custom. Will there be an option for a gas tank output for the wabasto?

Especially since there is one for the gen already?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Theputnams515

I am trying to find a way to effectively put this in our van.

It was brought to my attention during a fuel pump install that our tank and pump configuration is Roadtrek spec custom. Will there be an option for a gas tank output for the wabasto?

Especially since there is one for the gen already?

Couldn't you tee the genset line?

[Theputnams515]

I’m not sure I’m new at this lol.


If that would work that would be great.

Just looking for solutions

[MsNomer]

I doubt the T would work. These heaters are finicky about the preciseness of their fuel supply.

I cannot answer as to the safety of the knockoffs. I did not have the option when I bought in 2017. All I can say is that people I know personally have installed them, my impression is that more people on our PM forum install the knockoffs than the name brands, and there has not been a report of failure or danger. They report better altitude adjustment than I have.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

I doubt the T would work. These heaters are finicky about the preciseness of their fuel supply.

Oh, I can tell you stories about their fuel supply finickiness....
You would definitely be well-advised to follow the installation guidelines to the T (no pun intended).

However, I am familiar with instances in which people have successfully tee'd lines between the factory-installed Sprinter pre-heater Espar and a second unit used for cabin heating. Moreover, some of the Espar installation manuals explicitly allow this:

Espar Tee.jpg

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, there is noise and there is noise. I only have direct experience with the Espar D5. Yes, some people consider them noisy. But it isn't even on the same planet as, say, an Onan. The quality of the sound is also different. More of a high-speed whirring rather than a low rumble. Many people say they sound like a jet engine. Even this sound is mostly at startup for maybe 30 seconds. It then settles down to be much quieter, especially when it switches to low speed. During normal operation, I think the noise is comparable to the exhaust of a propane water heater. The noise is mostly outside. I often am not certain whether it is running or not from inside the van, unless the environment is very quiet. Finally, you can get mufflers for both the exhaust and the intake. They help a lot. Most people get the former but the latter (which also helps quite a bit) is often neglected.

As others have stated, I think twice before using if I am camping next to a tent camper (as I also did when I had a propane water heater). Otherwise, I consider it a non-issue.

There are 2 noise levels using diesel furnaces, much louder Espar Hydronic D5 for hydronic heaters and much quieter Espar Airtronics D2. D5 is 5KW heater and D2 2.2KW one. I have both, both with mufflers, D5 for just water heating and D2 for space heating. D2 on the lowest setting is very quiet inside and reasonably quiet outside.