Drink the Kool-Aid, or Else!

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I'm zeroing in on a 59K. I haven't seen too many recent issues on the new models which is a good sign. I hate to buy new, but the 59K is the only one that fits all my criteria. I'm still concerned about the space though. But I have to figure how much is flexibility worth to me. I think my two other choices View and Trend would be OK from a quality standpoint.

what is your space concern?

[tbirdman]

I'm OK with the storage space as it will be me and a 85 lb dog. If I need more I can always use a Stowaway hitch storage solution. I'm more concerned about floor space for the dog. Besides the increased space, a very nice lightly used 2012/13 View/Navion can be purchased for about the same price. At a few years old they have taken a major depreciation hit.

I'm convinced that a View/Navion can go wherever a B can go with a few exceptions. The drawbacks are I need to store it. Not a big deal as I plan to use it for months at a time so trips to the storage facility would be limited. I can get the covered storage for $109/mo. Question is would I use a B more often if it was in my driveway for shorter trips between these longer jaunts.

The other thing is it screams RV so there goes the stealth mode. And even though the View/Navion drives very nice for a RV, there's nothing like a B for driving and the Travato drives like a dream. The Trend/Viva is in between these two, but still screams RV and I would need storage, but has decent size holding tanks and room inside, gas engine and no slide issues to be concerned with.

Although the holding tanks are small in the Travato, for one person they should easily last a week with some conservation. I like to figure out how to turn the one bed into a couch/lounging area during the day. I was figuring the dog could stay on the other bed although she has been trained not to get up on furniture at home.

As I have posted before all the other B bathrooms are too small and the interior space feels confining in all of the other Bs. I get into the Sprinter based vans like the ERA and wonder why they feel so cramped even though they are 3 feet longer. The Chevy based Roadtreks feel so cramped also.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I'm OK with the storage space as it will be me and a 85 lb dog. If I need more I can always use a Stowaway hitch storage solution. I'm more concerned about floor space for the dog. Besides the increased space, a very nice lightly used 2012/13 View/Navion can be purchased for about the same price. At a few years old they have taken a major depreciation hit.

I'm convinced that a View/Navion can go wherever a B can go with a few exceptions. The drawbacks are I need to store it. Not a big deal as I plan to use it for months at a time so trips to the storage facility would be limited. I can get the covered storage for $109/mo. Question is would I use a B more often if it was in my driveway for shorter trips between these longer jaunts.

The other thing is it screams RV so there goes the stealth mode. And even though the View/Navion drives very nice for a RV, there's nothing like a B for driving and the Travato drives like a dream. The Trend/Viva is in between these two, but still screams RV and I would need storage, but has decent size holding tanks and room inside, gas engine and no slide issues to be concerned with.

Although the holding tanks are small in the Travato, for one person they should easily last a week with some conservation. I like to figure out how to turn the one bed into a couch/lounging area during the day. I was figuring the dog could stay on the other bed although she has been trained not to get up on furniture at home.

As I have posted before all the other B bathrooms are too small and the interior space feels confining in all of the other Bs. I get into the Sprinter based vans like the ERA and wonder why they feel so cramped even though they are 3 feet longer. The Chevy based Roadtreks feel so cramped also.

i use outside storage for my zion. i want to keep the batteries charged with my solar panels. it's 60 dollars a month and yes i will have to clear snow in the winter-lol

[tbirdman]

Being that I live in Oregon snow is typically not a concern. Moss may be the biggest concern. Unfortunately I have a standard garage door height but multiple neighbors have high garage ceilings/doors. Not RV, but high enough that a Travato could be parked inside. And I'm the only one with a lift. I can get my cars off the ground about 3 feet which is good enough to work underneath them or wax and polish the lower half of the car body

[avanti]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I'm convinced that a View/Navion can go wherever a B can go with a few exceptions.

I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision, but for the record, I believe this conviction to be delusional.

[tbirdman]

Except where a B can take up a single parking space, I believe a View/Navion can go where a B can go and even more places as the View/Navion has much more road clearance.

For camping, I don't think there is a difference except in rare circumstances.

It be interesting to hear from Mass59K as he traded a View in on a Travato 59K so he has real life experience.

[avanti]

Good luck with that.

[wincrasher]

Tbirdman - I think if you are sticking to paved roads, commercial campgrounds and state and federal parks, for the most part, you'll be fine in either one.

If you are going on BLM lands, Forest Service Roads, crowded city streets or busy parking lots, then I'd beg to differ.

Think about how you intend to use it, then buy accordingly.

[tbirdman]

I agree with you Wincrasher regarding busy city streets or parking lots. Regarding BLM or Forest Service Roads I've read where View/Navion owners have no issues and even some advantage because of the ground clearance.

I do plan to explore everywhere so drivability is a major consideration. Else I would be getting a 45' DP

[Davydd]

The View/Navion are built on the Sprinter chassis. Would they have any more clearance than any Sprinter Class B van? They do have a much longer tail end by at least 1-1/2 foot over the longest Sprinter van so would have more potential for bottoming out over any van including a Promaster.

I can name many paved roads I've been on where you could not take or possibly would not dare take in a wide View/Navion. Parallel parking is next to impossible in marked areas and dangerous on narrow streets. You can kid yourself all you want but they do not drive and handle anywhere near as well as any van. If you want one, buy one, but don't try to sell everyone it is just as good in those regards. You'll be in good company. There are more Class C owners than Class B owners.

[tbirdman]

I haven't measured any clearances except one person did write to me that some of the Sprinters you have to be careful especially when backing up as you could hit the generator. I believe he was referring to ERAs.

As far as too wide.

View (2012) 7'6" 24.5"

Difference (W/L)
Travato 6'9" 21' (9" 3.5')
Chevy Roadtrek 7'4" 22' (2" 2.5')
Sprinter 6'8" 23.5' (14", 1.5')

I have read were any Roadtrek 210 owners don't like the length or width of their vehicles yet teh 2012 view is only 2" wide and 2.5" longer. Width is what most people care in driving and length come in to play when you park.

I never said a View was equal to Class B, but they are a lot closer than people think once they take off there "B" glasses, drive them and actually look at the measurements.

[avanti]

Did you post here seeking informed opinions, or merely to seek people who will agree with what you have already decided?

[tbirdman]

Avanti,

Not sure what your agenda is...

I assume you don't like discussions. I have an opinion and it could be changed. As you see I responded with facts pointing out that the width was not as big as a factor as most people think especially if you owned a Roadtrek 210 which is only 2" narrow in width. I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right.

[Davydd]

tbirdman,

I don't think your discussion about a View/Navion is even on topic. You are trying to desperately convince yourself and you are trying to get others to buy in to salve your decision or you are fishing until someone bites and corroborates what you have decided. Buy one and see for yourself. Or at least go test drive all your considerations. Talk is stupid. Comparing dimensions is even stupider. Opinions are a dime a dozen. My opinion is if you don't know then a Class B is not for you. You have to make your own decision. I think most (not all) Class B owners clearly understand the differences.

[avanti]

No agenda beyond making very clear that I consider your premise dubious in the extreme. I certainly don't mean to be unfriendly. But a few cherry-picked dimensions don't begin to capture the subjective difference between driving a B and a C in many common situations. In addition to footprint, there are (at least) the issues of height, vertical side clearance (a big deal on dirt roads with overhanging trees), structural rigidity, visibility, response to cross-winds, and more.

As Davydd said, there are good reasons you might want to choose a C, but you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to convince yourself that relative drivability is not an issue. If it were not, I don't think that too many of us would have choosen to make the significant compromises inherent in B-van ownership. These tradeoffs are a worthy topic of discussion, but the facts of drivability (IMO) are not.

[tbirdman]

I haven't even made a decision yet so not sure why you think I'm trying to get you to agree with me. I'm discussing some based on fact and some based on opinion. If you do not want to discuss this with me, then you don't need to reply. And I have test driven all of them so I think I know how they drive.

Not sure why you both feel the need to attack me for asking questions as I have been polite and courteous. I will take the high road.

[bobojay]

I can say, we've had a Sprinter C, (Navion), and a Sprinter B, (ERA). The ERA feels like a sports car compared to the Navion. Roughly 10" shorter in height too....

[tbirdman]

Avanti-thanks for your reply. I guess it better term it how big of a difference in drivability is there. I am actually leaning towards a B. You make some good points.

I've only camped in well groomed areas with my A, and I really don't know where I'll be going with the B or C. They all have their tradeoffs. Myself and only having a dog have a lot more flexibility than others who try to cram 4 people into a class B. And then there are those who think a View is too small for two people.

[sammie14]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

Avanti-thanks for your reply. I guess it better term it how big of a difference in drivability is there. I am actually leaning towards a B. You make some good points.

I've only camped in well groomed areas with my A, and I really don't know where I'll be going with the B or C. They all have their tradeoffs. Myself and only having a dog have a lot more flexibility than others who try to cram 4 people into a class B. And then there are those who think a View is too small for two people.

I've owned two Winnebago Views and loved them. The quality was the same as the 4 Agiles I've owned. This is my experience. The counter tops in a RT are better. Because of View's size, there is more sway in the rear. The engine power is somewhat less. But the roominess is fantastic. I went back to the RT because my elderly dog had trouble getting up on the bed (J model). Also, a side benefit, I can park in my driveway.

[Davydd]

Speaking of parking in driveways, did you know the most common single family development setback is 25 feet with the assumption you could still park a car in your driveway? Just made it.