Tracking & Plotting Travels - - Exploring Alternative Implementations

[Winston]

When we first discovered ‘ground-based’ travel in the fall of 2012 (i.e. driving), we coincidentally stumbled onto the practice of recording and plotting detailed track files of our travels. We had no idea how useful and rewarding this practice would become. It’s fascinating to reflect on past travels if, for no other reason, to reminisce. But beyond these simple looks into the past, we were surprised how often we have relied on this data to confirm details of where we’ve been, what we’ve done - - maybe to share with others or, more selfishly, to relive: “Do you remember that neat place . . . where was it? Let’s go back.” We’ve even used this record to flush-out small details like where, precisely, along the West coastal highway, did we ‘pull-off’ to take those gorgeous, but non-geotagged, photos!

It is not the purpose of this thread ‘to sell’ our system. In many respects ours is old, clumsy and arcane and could be difficult to recreate even if desired. Rather, we seek to plant a few ideas that others can modify and extend to more modern or alternative hardware and software. And, further, we know that many on this forum have already developed their own approaches. Please use this thread to share your solutions.

We’re gadget freaks, into technology and the internet. So we started with our Windows Surface Pro tablet computer “Ram-mounted” between driver and passenger seats:



We’re pretty much connected 24/7 to the internet but, alas, ours is not an internet or cloud based system. Ours is self-contained. And, yes, a laptop or tablet is required - - but not real-time. You don’t have to go to the extreme of ‘planting’ your computer in front of the dash as we did.

We start with a Garmin handheld GPS receiver of the following type (an eTrex H30) just sitting on the dash:

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In the simplest implementation, the GPS is tied to nothing, just sits on the dash and runs for two driving days on a pair of alkaline AA cells. Some have suggested that a cell phone can do the same thing - - but we have found the Garmin to be more reliable for several reasons. First, it has a better, more sensitive receiver - - it virtually never loses signal sitting on the dash - - our cell phone occasionally does. And it’s always there, on and in the correct spot. Too often we’ve found our cell phone moved, or the batteries dead, or some other, unexpected malady that interrupts the continuity of the recorded track. The Garmin is a firmwear driven solution that’s nearly foolproof.

While optional, we have chosen to interconnect our dash-located Garmin with the Ram-mounted Surface tablet through USB. We do this for two reasons. First, we don’t have to worry about batteries for the Garmin - - it’s powered through the Surface tablet and, second, it allows us to use the Garmin’s satellite data real-time for ‘programs’/apps on the Surface. Again, this interconnection is not required real-time - - we do it because it adds additional capability and can be so easily implemented in view of where our Surface is normally located. What is required, though, is downloading the Garmin files every few days (depending on the model, the Garmin has limited track file memory and will start over-writing earlier track files when it runs out of file space).

We save each days track files. We combine each days track files to create “Trip Files” and save those, too, separately. Indeed, we add each days track file to the current Trip File so, at the end of each day, we can see our total trip from Day 1 to the ‘then’ present.

Our solution becomes slightly technical at this point. One must be familiar with ‘file types’ and be able to do some ‘manipulation’. For example, the Garmin most easily outputs .GPX files. Here’s a typical single ‘record’/datapoint from the Garmin:

“Trackpoint N43 37.358 W86 32.223 11/5/2019 6:56:06 AM 761 ft 111 ft 0:49:08
0.0 mph 42ø true”

Lots of interesting information - - but unnecessary for simple track plotting. By the time we’ve ‘manipulated’ the Garmin .GPX files, that same datapoint will look like this:

“43.622633,-86.53705"

A simple decimal-degrees, latitude and longitude number.

But let’s return from the technical to the simple. So far, all we’ve done is drive around for a day with the Garmin sitting on the dash. We’re now relaxing with a glass of wine and some crackers by our campfire, tablet on our lap - - we download the Garmin file and plot it on our tablet. More specifically, after making those ‘technical manipulations’, we plot it on our DeLorme Topo 10 Mapping software. Voila, done.

But here’s where we’re hoping some of you have advanced. DeLorme was bought by Garmin and Garmin all but dumped the DeLorme computer program line . . . thus, one can’t officially buy DeLorme’s Topo 10 software. And even if you can, it’s not being maintained. Unlike the web-based Google solution, DeLorme’s maps are more than a decade old. Yes, the country hasn’t changed size and the rivers and mountains haven’t moved. But it would be nice to have all those detailed track files plotted on actual roads.

We’re hoping that someone on the forum has found a ‘piece of Windows software’ that is ‘current’ and can replace DeLorme Topo 10. Or maybe we have to change platforms? To Apple or Android? Or, at the least, maybe there’s a Forum member who is more facile with Google Maps and can perform a new ‘manipulation’ to place outside (non-Google) data onto the Google Map?

But, for now, let’s look at how our Garmin data can be used on our Windows DeLorme Topo 10 map program.

Ahh, yes, such great memories - - our first camping trip (tent back then):



And the beginning of our maiden DIY ProMaster life:



That ultimately led us to ‘take a wrong turn’ and end up here:



And maybe it’s fitting to show our last camping trip:



Observing all the ‘failures’ of this “Last” Camping Trip, one might ponder whether this will be our Final/Last Trip? But we don’t think so. Let spring arrive and we’ll be off again. (Suffice to say it was exciting to have 30 seconds advance notice of a total transmission failure on the Construction/Interstate in Indianapolis followed within hours after transmission replacement, with a double failure that resulted in overchanging of our lithium pack - - these latter failures will be reported in this Forum, later, when the details and consequences have been determined.)

Here’s another “Trip” plot:



One of our more wacko travel objectives has been to find a GeoCache in every county of this country. The above map shows our spring 2018 wonderings through Texas in pursuit of 208 of Texas’ 254 counties.

We got carried away “with the West” in 2013 so we’ve used ‘color’ to distinguish two nearly overlapping trips:



What’s nice about the Garmin-based track file is its detail. Here is a view of our travels around Crater Lake - - notice you can see not only every ‘switchback’, but our travels through the campground, including to two ‘loops’ we camped in:

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We’ll conclude our somewhat misdirected ‘Travelog Map Slideshow’ with this overall composite:

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Hopefully, while extensive, the above series of maps demonstrates how flexible the concept of trip mapping can be and how much fun one can have with massaging the collected track files to create a myriad of travel stories.

We look forward to hearing how others have documented their travels.

[Bud]

Hi Winston,

I'm Not into this kind of thing, but wondering if you could not connect a dash cam into the system. Or better yet one of them 4 camera systems. Click on a location and ..............

Bud

[dicktill]

Hi Winston,

Very interesting - thanks for posting this.

What do you use for navigation/GPS? Are they / can they be integrated? It would be great to be able to use that Windows Surface Pro tablet to do both things in real-time.

Regards, Dick

[Winston]

Originally Posted by dicktill

Hi Winston,

Very interesting - thanks for posting this.

What do you use for navigation/GPS? Are they / can they be integrated? It would be great to be able to use that Windows Surface Pro tablet to do both things in real-time.

Regards, Dick

Dick,

Our Surface doesn't have a GPS built in. If it did, we're wondering if we'd get the same compromise on receiver performance . . . as the Surface, like our cell phone, is not completely exposed through the front window. Seems that the Garmin's position on the dash 'fully' exposed to the sky through the front windows has advantages.

There's another issue we inadvertently discovered while installing our Pepwave "Cellular Router". A feature of this router - - one we didn't know was included when we bought the router - - is its built-in Cellular receiver and External Antenna. One would have expected this to be the ultimate solution. We tried it, but soon found that it's sampling rate was 'fixed' and comparatively of longer duration. By contrast - - and we're a little foggy on this - - the Garmin's sample rate can be adjusted, in particular, it can be set from a fixed duration sample or to a fixed distance sample. How often a sample must be taken is directly related to the speed of motion. We need fewer samples while walking, than when driving . . .

In any event, the tracks we plotted on the same DeLorme software from our Pepwave were of noticeably inferior resolution. This may be a factor in using cell phone GPS's as well (although we regularly use Google Nav on our cell phone for navigation). Would love to hear from others on the sample rate issue.

[dicktill]

Here's another thing I'd like to be able to do: I'd like to be able to plot all our old trips, as well as we can remember them from notes on routes and towns (tedious I know!). Essentially like plotting with a paper map and a highlighter, but on a computer map. Can this be done on DeLorme Topo 10 (we have it) or Google maps or something else? I'd like them to look as good as Winston's maps that he posted above (astounding bunch of trips)!

[Davydd]

Winston, You made the trip to Alaska almost identical to our trip. I think the only variations was we took the ferry from Skagway to Haines but didn’t go down to Juneau and Sitka as we had already been there on a cruise.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by dicktill

Here's another thing I'd like to be able to do: I'd like to be able to plot all our old trips, as well as we can remember them from notes on routes and towns (tedious I know!). Essentially like plotting with a paper map and a highlighter, but on a computer map. Can this be done on DeLorme Topo 10 (we have it) or Google maps or something else? I'd like them to look as good as Winston's maps that he posted above (astounding bunch of trips)!

Dick,

The short answer is yes, but as you noted, a manual plotting is tedious. The basic file format for plotting tracks is this:

BEGIN LINE
32.36615,-86.45665
32.365233,-86.4571
32.365417,-86.456583
32.36545,-86.456467
32.365633,-86.456217
END

A simple list of latitude/longitude points in decimal degree format (with West latitude being a negative number). DeLorme is a bit obscure . . . to import this file one enables the "Show Tab Area Panel" under Options . . . but this is where DeLorme gets obscure as there are actually multiple different views of the Tab Area Panel that can/must be used to properly import files.



The third view of the above collage is the form of the panel necessary to import a file - - by clicking on the "Import" tab in the upper right of the panel (You get to this panel by clicking the "File" tab in one of the other views). Clicking on the "Done" tab returns you to one of the other views. The second view - - with the "line" tab clicked on the left - - allows you to change the weight and color of the file lines to be imported as well as line type, e.g. dotted lines. Incidentally, other symbols can be imported and plotted by hitting the little green 'push pin' visible on the left of the Tab Panel (in the top 2 frames of the above collage). Here's an example of the GeoCaches of Oceana County Michigan where we, first, imported the symbols shown to reflect the 'status' of each cache:



Unfortunately, all of the above is the easy part - - when you have, for example, a list of lat/longs from an external source such as our noted Garmin handheld. To do this manually, and we have, one just uses the line draw tab (shown in the top two frames of the above collage). To get acceptable detail, we've zoomed in until the underlying highways appear (in detail) and just madly click along the road . . . yup, tedious.

We haven't done this, but wondering if it would be possible to take a Google Map - - with a 'missing route' displayed (Google, of course, follows the roads) - - and somehow output the track, itself, for subsequent importing to DeLorme. We're curious and will probably give it a try and will report back if we have success.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Winston, You made the trip to Alaska almost identical to our trip. I think the only variations was we took the ferry from Skagway to Haines but didn’t go down to Juneau and Sitka as we had already been there on a cruise.

Dave,

Our obsession with finding Geocaches in every county sent us back to Alaska this summer:



Unfortunately most of the places we 'needed' to go can't be reached 'on wheels' so our CamperVan spend a lot of alone-time in Anchorage and Juneau as we flew by commercial and charter to Alaska's far-reaching corners.

Winston

[Winston]

Originally Posted by dicktill

I'd like to be able to plot all our old trips, as well as we can remember them from notes on routes and towns (tedious I know!).

Success. We couldn't make Google output or download a track file in any format, but did find there are other programs that can do it. They're not as flexible in 'finding locations' when creating their maps, but you can click on the map to establish 'starting' and 'ending' locations. Don't know if you can 'revise' the track that they create.

The one program that we used was AllTrails.com It's made for hikers, but allows you to create a map/route between two locations for "Scenic Driving". From there one can download a track file in a dozen different formats . . . we found the .CSV to be nearly perfect for importation into DeLorme. The file provides three fields, DECIMAL lat/long (no conversion necessary) and altitude. DeLorme ignores this third/last field so it can be left as is. All that needs to be done is replace the first line of the file with: BEGIN LINE and add END as the last file line.

EDIT: AllTrails.com also allows the uploading of .GPX files from sources such as the Garmin handheld, thereafter, to download the same file as a .CSV file - - thereby avoiding all the 'hoops and manipulations' we've been going through these past years in converting our Garmin files for display in DeLorme.

[Boxster1971]

Hi Winston,
I don't track my trips in the same details as you are doing. I have used an old program, Microsoft Streets & Trips, to plan my travels and save the files and associated documents as a record of my trips. Attached image is an example of one part of my trip to Alaska in 2014.

Like DeLorme’s Topo 10 software MS S&T is no longer available or updated so it has become more challenging to use it for planning. I've looked at other programs but haven't yet found one that is as useful and easy to use as MS S&T.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Hi Winston,
I don't track my trips in the same details as you are doing. I have used an old program, Microsoft Streets & Trips, to plan my travels and save the files and associated documents as a record of my trips. Attached image is an example of one part of my trip to Alaska in 2014.

Like DeLorme’s Topo 10 software MS S&T is no longer available or updated so it has become more challenging to use it for planning. I've looked at other programs but haven't yet found one that is as useful and easy to use as MS S&T.

Garmin Basecamp has similar capabilities to the old Streets and Trips, and interfaces with GPS so don't need the computer at the dash, like we had with the S&T. We had tried some transferring to a GPS from S&T without much success back then.


The downside of Basecamp is a quite long learning curve and lack of information about what all it can do. It is not very intuitive to me. I have been using it for several years and still stumble across stuff I didn't know was there. Once it is learned Basecamp works pretty well with limited glitches, but not perfect. In learning the right settings to get an identical transfer to the GPS, and then to use them all, you do get a couple of surprises.

[MobileCabin]

I use Google maps to create and often re-create the route and a handheld garmin for any waypoint capture. To put them together I use qgis. It has a steep learning curve, but it is open-source and powerful. Once you get the hang of it you can do most any geospatial activity you will need. What is nice is that all my data and mapping (except the initial Google map route) are on my computer and not out on the internet.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

I use Google maps to create and often re-create the route and a handheld garmin for any waypoint capture. To put them together I use qgis. It has a steep learning curve, but it is open-source and powerful. Once you get the hang of it you can do most any geospatial activity you will need. What is nice is that all my data and mapping (except the initial Google map route) are on my computer and not out on the internet.

Possibly you could amplify on your system - - is it Google Maps or the Garmin that creates the actual track file? And if it is Google, then what 'waypoints' are you capturing from the Garmin? And what happens if you take a side-road not initially planned in the Google Maps phase?

We tried to create a track file on our cell phone from Google Maps without great success - - the resolution was poor.

[MobileCabin]

The process I follow makes use of a computer. Phones are great but I don’t enjoy them once you need to go beyond a point a click and besides, someone is always trying to call. To begin I create a route using google maps on a computer that I print to use during the trip. Along the way I make notes of changes to the route that I use later in the process. The handheld gps is used to mark any notable stops, off road hikes and fishing spots. I really use the handheld gps for waypoint marking and not the actual route tracking.

When done with the trip I go back to the saved google map route and make the necessary adjustments to agree with those changes I documented. This route is then downloaded in the kml format. The waypoints on the hand held gps are also downloaded in their gpx format.

Now the fun begins. Load the route kml file and the waypoint gpx file into qgis. From here there is a “world” of mapping options. A mapping layer similar to those shown in the early posts can be used and your route data added. In this example I used a geo-referenced satellite image and added some routes and waypoints.

All of this could probably be done in google maps or google earth. Likewise, all the route planing could have been done with qgis. I just find google maps easy to use for the initial planning but I do not like to use it to keep all the final details. My current process should work well when I eventually get an android auto system.


qgis info can be found here: https://qgis.org/en/site/

[RossWilliams]

Apparently there is an Android app called Traveller that allows you to record your trip using google maps. There is also an Apple app. https://www.wikihow.com/Use-Google-M...Track-Your-Run

[Winston]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

Now the fun begins.

Thanks for the additional information. Your approach looks particularly useful when trying to 'recreate' a record of a route already taken - - in situations where one hasn't recorded the route 'real-time' on a phone or GPS. This question partially motivated this thread as another member was pondering how to create such a trip record 'after-the-fact'. And as diligent as we are in 'turning-on' the Garmin, we occasionally 'screw-up' and have to create missing route segments.

Our focus, however, remains on the real-time GPS collection of track data largely due to our lack of pre-planning and the fact that our routes - - even when planned - - often include 'spontaneous' deviations.

We'll give some of the noted cell phone apps a try - - but we probably will not abandon the Garmin handheld due to its superior sensitivity and accuracy. And there remains the question of 'how to use/visualize' the captured cell phone track - - seems that one might still want to export the data to a larger viewing platform.

[MobileCabin]

On another trip I did not really plan the details of where I was going to fish, just the area. In this case I just took my handheld gps and marked locations along the walk to the water. Afterwards I loaded the waypoints to qgis and then tried different maps to visualize the location for future reference. A couple views of the data are (hopefully the links will show the larger versions in the photo section):





This is no different than what would be done with waypoints captured from a longer trip to put them in to context of the roads and paths.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by Winston

<snip>
This question partially motivated this thread as another member was pondering how to create such a trip record 'after-the-fact'.
<snip>

Hi,

I'm the "other member" mentioned; so thanks Winston for creating this thread. And thanks to several others who have shared what they have done.

I've been steadily adding to my qpx files by creating them in a bicycling app that I use to log my bike rides: "Ride with GPS" (there may be better ways to do this, and I'm open to suggestions). I had already used it while driving on some of our recent trips, so I already had some files. But to recreate an old trip, you need to tediously plot your journey in the "route planner" section of the app; I usually just plot 1-3 days worth per file. RwGPS has several annoying features though, and I just found a new one: it prevents you from plotting a route if it currently closed, so several seasonal roads we drove have not been plotted, and won't be, until spring or I find a way around this. Another thing is that the route must be continuous, so if you hit a spot like this, you must end the file and start a fresh one "on the other side".

So far I have imported these qpx files into a couple of mapping programs: "Streets and Trips" (2013) and "AllTrails pro". My biggest dislike of both is the very fat lines that show the route, and I haven't found any way to thin these down. Different colors would be nice too, and it seems like AllTrails has this feature, but I haven't learned to use it. Also, AllTrails puts a big fat dot at each end of each segment, and I don't see any way to delete them. I also haven't found any way to delete a segment if I find something wrong with it. I also have trouble manipulating the view in both programs; neither seems to have a "fit all" feature. Here are screen shots of both (sorry, they are down at the bottom, as despite my uploading the files at this point, when I started typing again, it was above the screen shots - so that should tell you something about my meager computer skills):

On to other programs:
1) Basecamp: Booster and I have already found that this program likes to re-route, plus I didn't find a way to import gpx files.
2) DeLorme Topo: loaded version 8; it would open but was not functional on Windows 8.1 - then found my version 10, and I couldn't get it to read the setup disc, so I may have to buy a new one - hence, I don't know how functional this would be for me. But based on Winston's results, this one seems most promising.
3) QGIS: Yikes, this is way above my skill level; it took way over an hour for me to load a US map (and I still don't have the layers the way I'd want), and haven't found any way to import the gpx files.
4) I searched the internet for M&S replacements, and opened several websites; they might work, but they all seemed to be geared toward routing a salesman (or whatever) to many places in the shortest time/route.

I'm open to any critique of anything I said above, any suggestions, etc.

Thanks, Dick

[booster]

I would add to Dick's comments on Basecamp a bit. Yes, the program is prone to rerouting, but most of the issues will only appear when the operator learning curve isn't complete, if that makes sense.


The reroutes will show up if somehow the GPS, after getting program loaded from Basecamp correctly, including making sure to have the option to transfer the exact route, is inadvertently told to go to the incorrect next destination on a start of route or restart in the middle of a route. It is easy to do incorrectly. The GPS will freelance to the first destination you list, so if you inadvertently put in a destination other than where you are or something very close to that, it will choose it's own route to that point, which could be hundreds of miles away. I always put a waypoint very close to where I am and let it take me there, go through that point and I am on route without any freelancing.


Basecamp also uses waypoints and shaping points and reacts differently to them while navigating. Waypoints will be seen as you have to go there points and the GPS will keep rerouting you until you go through the waypoint or delete it. Shaping points guide you on the route but don't require you to go through them, so if you take a side trip around one, and then go back on route the GPS won't route you back to the missed point. This is a very big deal for custom routes that our other GPS other than S&T wouldn't do. I usually lay out a route with a start close where I am and a finish point with both as waypoints. Everything in between is a shaping point to prevent missing them and freelancing. It works well that way for us. Road construction, detours and such don't drive the GPS nuts when done that way on a custom route.

[Winston]

Wow - - dictill and booster, you guys have our head spinning - - maybe our system isn’t as complex as we thought! But in any event, some of our confusion may be that each of us is heading in slightly different directions.

Maybe we should start by exploring our objective/purpose? Are we trying to Route Plan for future trips or Document past travels? As we previously commented, for us the objective has been to keep a record, to document past travels and with sufficient flexibility that we can change the scope of any map presentation (from detailed local views to larger, nationwide areas as well as to filter for other meaningful criteria). To the extent that we’ve been exploring the so-called ‘planning’ software, it has been to solve the problem raised by dictill - - how to add, or fill-in, route segments that were missed during earlier travels.

A second issue for us in the selection process remains: “on-line vs off-line”. Our strong preference is for off-line solutions. Despite our efforts to stay 100% connected while traveling - - this objective remains elusive. But beyond the connectivity issue is the reality of ‘on-line offerings’. Over the years we’ve been burned time and again by on-line programs, system, offerings . . . often free . . . that simply disappear or become noticeably ‘not free’. The Cloud has not become our panacea.

Then there’s the question: “How do we plan on viewing our maps?”. We hadn’t realized how many have abandoned “the computer” and now live with only their smartphones or, maybe, with the larger format iPad and Android tablets. Indeed, as our 5 year old Microsoft Surface Pro was showing some age issues, we looked to see, if it needed replacing, whether there were any alternatives other than a new Surface - - the answer is “no” - - virtually every tablet is android or IOS. This, of course, has huge implications on the ‘solution’ to our mapping inquiry as many solutions are not available across all platforms.

Then there’s the slightly technical issue of what ‘form’ the track data “from” and “to” these various programs will, or must, be in. GPX files are common, but over-kill for simple track plotting (GPX includes additional information such as date/time, elevation, speed, direction). Indeed, we must strip much of this superfluous data before importing to DeLorme. It would be helpful to learn what each of these programs ‘can produce’ and/or ‘must have’ in order to function.