IntoTheMystery13 Checks out Class Bs

[JohnMFlores]

Love this kid's unfiltered honesty, LOL.

https://youtu.be/X_zK2zt0UHs


I like the Travolta too!

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by JohnMFlores

Love this kid's unfiltered honesty, LOL.

https://youtu.be/X_zK2zt0UHs


I like the Travolta too!

I saw the new Roadtreks.

I agree with him... the cabinets look and feel real cheap.

Don't go for the Sprinters or ProMasters.

The Chevy based RT still have the solid cabinets.
I don't know how long they will keep making them though.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I saw the new Roadtreks.

I agree with him... the cabinets look and feel real cheap.

So what? For cryin out loud, they're not art objects. They are containers to store a lot of junk you most likely should have left home. If they stay open when I want them open and stay closed when I want them closed and don't fall apart, I'm not much concerned how they look and feel. What's next? Criticism over the look and cheap quality of the lid on the commode?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

If they stay open when I want them open and stay closed when I want them closed and don't fall apart, I'm not much concerned how they look and feel.

Well, that's the rub. I think if you look at a few cheaply-built RVs that are more than a few years old, you will find that your criteria may not be met for too long.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, that's the rub. I think if you look at a few cheaply-built RVs that are more than a few years old, you will find that your criteria may not be met for too long.

You're undoubtedly right. But that's not the category I'm addressing. I'm talking about cabinetry that might be "cheap" quality and perhaps not aesthetically pleasing but for practical purposes is still quite functional for the life of the coach. The reality is that there is a bottom line selling price that has to be respected and IMO, it's better spent on favoring higher quality active appliances over passive cabinetry.

Sometimes it goes over the top. For example, the Galleria delivers with expensive cabinetry that would bring oohs and ahs at the Antique Roadshow but to meet their bottom line sell price they equip with flooded cell batteries and provide no inverter. Say what?

[wincrasher]

The cabinets are generally what people get their "perception" of quality from, for the most part. I've often argued that some vans with fine millwork are put together very poorly and others with vinyl covered plywood cabinets put in years of trouble free service.

But if we want to argue who's are the best from a durability standpoint - it has to be Airstream Interstate. The all welded, aluminum frame cabinets, with laminate inserts are by far the strongest cabinets you can get, and in all likelihood will outlive the service life of the van in which they are mounted.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

But if we want to argue who's are the best from a durability standpoint - it has to be Airstream Interstate. The all welded, aluminum frame cabinets, with laminate inserts are by far the strongest cabinets you can get, and in all likelihood will outlive the service life of the van in which they are mounted.

Well, the Interstate(s) you've seen are a far cry from the one I used to own. Warped doors, rotten wood due to hidden leaks, wood bracing hanging by one screw, peeling plastic veneer everywhere, rusty untreated penetrations (ALL of them), rotten wood-framed skylight, uncrimped coax cables, leaky PEX connections, rattling bed, mis-sewn upholstery, misaligned velcro, curtain snaps with unset rivets, plastic door slides glued in place with adhesive that let loose in two years...

It was really quite amazing. The Interstate has its pluses, but build quality is not one of them. And, when we shopped for a replacement in 2014, the models at Hershey were no better. By then I knew where to look.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, the Interstate(s) you've seen are a far cry from the one I used to own. Warped doors, rotten wood due to hidden leaks, wood bracing hanging by one screw, peeling plastic veneer everywhere, rusty untreated penetrations (ALL of them), rotten wood-framed skylight, uncrimped coax cables, leaky PEX connections, rattling bed, mis-sewn upholstery, misaligned velcro, curtain snaps with unset rivets, plastic door slides glued in place with adhesive that let loose in two years...

It was really quite amazing. The Interstate has its pluses, but build quality is not one of them.

Considering they now charge $170k for one, you'll be happy to learn they've made some progress since 2005.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Considering they now charge $170k for one, you'll be happy to learn they've made some progress since 2005.

You missed my edit. As of 2014, I saw little improvement, and the chatter on the Airstream forums seems to confirm this.

[BBQ]

.

Even PleasureWay is changing...

They are famous for their solid maple cabinets.
Now they have this white curved door cabinets -- made out of lightweight semi-hollow composites. I don't how well they can stand up to the test of time.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, the Interstate(s) you've seen are a far cry from the one I used to own. Warped doors, rotten wood due to hidden leaks, wood bracing hanging by one screw, peeling plastic veneer everywhere, rusty untreated penetrations (ALL of them), rotten wood-framed skylight, uncrimped coax cables, leaky PEX connections, rattling bed, mis-sewn upholstery, misaligned velcro, curtain snaps with unset rivets, plastic door slides glued in place with adhesive that let loose in two years....

hmmm.....well, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

hmmm.....well, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Actually, I usually accompany that rant (which is 100% accurate, BTW) with the other side of the story:

The 2005 Interstate had first-rate appliances and fixtures for its day; it had an excellent floorpan; the folding bed/sofas were nice; it was attractive; the single gray/black tank was far superior than the stupidity of separate gray and black tanks; and we thought it was cool to own an Airstream. I eventually fixed almost all of the listed problems and made several major improvements. It was an awesome rig by the time we passed it on. As I said, the Interstate had a lot going for it. But from everything I've seen, the workmanship and QA that Thor delivers are a disgrace to the brand.

[MobileCabin]

I agree about the lack of quality from Thor. I have one of their luggables and have been horrified about lack of assembly quality. When we decided to get a B the next year, I gave the Interstate a look but after reading the AS forum. They seem to use the people trained on the trailer line. It was easy to go with another brand.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Considering they now charge $170k for one, you'll be happy to learn they've made some progress since 2005.

Our Interstate is a 2007, and it has its share of issues, most of which pertain to the behind-the-scenes components (chiefly plumbing, which my husband and I had to re-do in its entirety, and electrical, which we are currently re-doing in its entirety). The visible finishes have stood up well, given that it's now 10 years old (but it was well taken care of, exposed to a 50 lb. dog but no children).

Anecdotal information on Air Forums suggests that the main problems with the newer builds still revolve around those unseen components where corners are still being cut. I've seen photos posted of rusty hardware (fasteners) in rigs that are only two years old. Roof leaks are common among forum users. I've seen reports of the same busted plumbing that we've had to deal with in our older rig (lines sheared off at the tank, presumably from road impacts and vibrations, because flexibility was not built into the system... it breaks rather than bending when necessary). And electrical issues of all types never seem to end - that's the number one forum complaint by volume.

Of course the forums do tend to be problem-heavy because that's where people go for advice.

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I saw the new Roadtreks.

I agree with him... the cabinets look and feel real cheap.

Don't go for the Sprinters or ProMasters.

At last month's nearby RV show, I first stopped to see the new Sprinter based RoadTreks. Inside the cheap feeling doors were some non-functional shelves. There was an uneven gap of about 1/4" on both sides, so they weren't even close to meeting the cabinet walls. The gap was big enough for all sorts of stuff to disappear or get caught as the rig went down the road. I kept thinking that the cabinets looked like I, Mr. Carpentry Klutz, had made them.

I then went to see LTV and PleasureWay. They were lightyears better than RoadTrek.

[MobileCabin]

If I look at RVs from a manufacturing perspective, I find that they are all crap. The individual arguments among people center on just whose smell better. This is similar to the arguments regarding US cars in the 70's and 80's. There are exceptions but they tend to be high priced boutique builds that better be built well at their price. Then there are those that buy a RV and continue to spend time and money to fix all the design/build issues to make it function as they may have thought it would operate when purchased. The manufacturers have it made!

Looking at auto production as a similar manufacturing process, their build quality issues only started to improve when they improved the manufacturing process. It may be argued that this only began with serious competition from lower priced and yet higher assembly quality autos from outside the US. I am waiting to see if this pattern repeats with RVs as Hymer expands its production capability in North America and brings in higher build quality products. Likewise, I hope that the battery situation improves when Tesla brings mass-produced battery systems that will become a build standard.

[BBQ]

.

This video restored my faith... at least Pleasure-Way is still doing it the right way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXsn34oLuj4

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

This video restored my faith... at least Pleasure-Way is still doing it the right way.

The pitch regarding the spare tire issue assumes that the flat tire is repairable. But if it's a failure from a road hazard, it probably can't be repaired. What happens then?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

If I look at RVs from a manufacturing perspective, I find that they are all crap. The individual arguments among people center on just whose smell better. This is similar to the arguments regarding US cars in the 70's and 80's. There are exceptions but they tend to be high priced boutique builds that better be built well at their price. Then there are those that buy a RV and continue to spend time and money to fix all the design/build issues to make it function as they may have thought it would operate when purchased. The manufacturers have it made!

I don't buy this. If I look at RVs from an owner perspective, I find that these mini mobile houses are all amazing and what the industry manages to accomplish in twenty feet of amenities is remarkable while still permitting their use as a daily driver. With respect to fixing and redesigning our RV, this is what was required: nothing.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

Actually, I usually accompany that rant (which is 100% accurate, BTW) with the other side of the story:

The 2005 Interstate had first-rate appliances and fixtures for its day; it had an excellent floorpan; the folding bed/sofas were nice; it was attractive; the single gray/black tank was far superior than the stupidity of separate gray and black tanks; and we thought it was cool to own an Airstream. I eventually fixed almost all of the listed problems and made several major improvements. It was an awesome rig by the time we passed it on. As I said, the Interstate had a lot going for it. But from everything I've seen, the workmanship and QA that Thor delivers are a disgrace to the brand.

What's the story here? Airstream has an enviable reputation for their trailers. Are the motor homes a separate business entity or designed by a separate division within the company? When did Thor become involved?